Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[Subduction Zone]

"[Dr. Andrew Baker] said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death,” the June 1 memo said.

LOL!! How is that supposed to help? In other words if they did not know what killed him they would have assumed that it was due to the drugs in his system.
Is that all you have?

Medical examiner stands by homicide conclusion for Floyd's death

From that article the best that can be found for you is:

Under cross-examination, though, Baker agreed with Nelson that Floyd’s heart disease and drug use “played a role” in the death.

The rest does not support you at all:

Baker testified that his examination of Floyd’s heart found no “visible or microscopic previous damage” to the heart muscle.

A medical expert who testified Thursday said a healthy person subjected to what Floyd endured would also have died.


The next one tells you that one has to judge drug effects in context. People build up tolerances to drugs:

Nelson asked Baker whether he has certified deaths by fentanyl overdose at levels lower than that seen in Floyd’s blood, and Baker said yes. But Baker also noted that levels of fentanyl must be considered in the context of how long someone had used the drug, any tolerance built up to it, and what other substances may be involved.


A couple more:

And he said he did not notice any pills or pill fragments in Floyd’s stomach.

So no evidence of recent drugs, he probably took those some time ago. In other words, not an overdose.

Lastly the coroner did not want to taint his judgment:



Baker also said he did not watch the harrowing video of the arrest before examining Floyd so that he would not be influenced by what he saw.

“I was aware that at least one video had gone viral on the internet, but I intentionally chose not to look at that until I had examined Mr. Floyd,” he said. “I did not want to bias my exam by going in with any preconceived notions that might lead me down one pathway or another.”

Other experts testified as well. They all seemed to agree on the cause of death.

Dr. Lindsey Thomas, a forensic pathologist who retired in 2017 from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office and did not work on Floyd’s case, testified earlier Friday that she agreed with Baker’s findings, but appeared to go further, saying the “primary mechanism of death” was asphyxia, or insufficient oxygen.

Read the article. It covers both sides and the overwhelming testimony is that the cause of Floyd's death was the misuse of force.

 

[F1fan]

Did Floyd resist arrest? Yes,

And there are rules that officers must follow to control a person resisting arrest. And also rules what to do once a person is under control and in custody. Did Chauvin violate this second set of guidelines? Yes. Is he legally liable for Floyd's death? Yes.

Did he have heart problems? Yes, Did he have enough fentanyl in his system to cause an overdose,

Lethal Fenanyl amount was for an average person not addicted to the drug. Obviously there is little data on the fatal levels of those who have been addicted. That a person may have a level in their blood that is typically fatal does not apply to those who have built up resistance. This was according to experts giving testimony.

Yes, Did he have other drugs in his system that contributed to his breathing problems, Yes. If Floyd didn’t resist arrest and complied with police he wouldn’t have ended up on the ground. Was the cop at fault too? Yes. Simple

It's simpler, Chauvin should have followed his training.

 

[F1fan]

"[Dr. Andrew Baker] said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death,” the June 1 memo said.

That is speculation.

 

[paarsurrey]

The bible is the standard which disproves Islam.

How could Bible be a standard, when its verses are interpreted and taken at the whims of the Pauline-Christians?
On one hand the Christianity say that Jesus used to talk in parables. On the other hand they take physically what Jesus said and actually meant metaphorically according to the norm of the then Jews and as per the usage of Torah (OT). The whims of the Christians cannot be the "standard".
One might have not reflected on some of the creeds of Christianity.
For instance take the issue of putting God-head on Jesus. Has one ever thought that it can never mean Jesus being a literal and or physically God; as this entails following implications:

1. God has wife (I take refuge with Allah)
2. that makes makes Mary the wife of Christian-God (I take refuge with Allah)
3. Jesus was husband of his mother (I take refuge with Allah)
4. Jesus was his own father. (I take refuge with Allah)

I don't think this is acceptable to our friend @Barry Johnson . Right?

The Christians never Cross-examined the "witnesses" of the event of Cross, this is being done by the Historians in this era. Right?

Regards
_____________________
Paul Manning, 35 yrs bible study; ex teacher, part time mechanic, engineer, IOW kiwi male Answered October 10, 2018

The gospel of John is the only one of the four that gets twisted to make out as if Jesus is saying he is God. Jesus had no interest in suggesting he was God; he had enough to do being God’s son, and as Messiah had to remain sinless so as to fulfil his father’s word. Making himself out to be his own father would have been extremely confusing for all concerned as well as counter-productive.

However you are right in suggesting that Christianity evolved* its teachings over time to arrive at what is currently believed. It was not the gospel of John that caused it but he gets the blame, seeing that there was sufficient enigmatic material in there to confuse, divide, and conquer the new churches.

https://www.quora.com/Given-the-Gospel-of-John-is-the-only-one-that-states-Jesus-as-God-how-would-Christianity-evolve-over-time-if-there-was-no-Gospel-of-John

paarsurrey comments:

*It is not evolving of Christianity, it is the case of corrupting Jesus’ teachings which Jesus taught and acted upon prior to the event of Crucifixion.

 

[sojourner]

There being over 40,000 Christian sects is a dilemma for any Christian who believes they have the truth

There is no “the truth” that anyone can fully grasp where God is concerned. There is only truth that we can can grasp. I don’t see that as a dilemma. I see it as a multifaceted approach to a very large issue.

Typical is just the basic doctrine of protestantism. The beliefs about the resurrection and salvation are quite simple: Jesus was sent by God to bring a message, and then be sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind. Your comments disagree

But that’s not the “basic doctrine of Protestantism.” It May be a popular doctrine, but there are others that are just as valid.

Ask Barry Johnson what he thinks. See if he agrees with you

Barry Johnson does not speak for all — or even a majority of Christians.

God created Jesus knowing he was going to be executed, and his death treated as a sacrifice to God

The last clause is not a fact in evidence.

So you’re admitting there is even more confusion among Christians. What makes your choice of interpretation correct?

As I said, “correct” isn’t at issue. It’s a red herring. My interpretation is neither “correct” nor “incorrect.” It is valid because it conforms to the discipline and hermeneutics of theology.

Shouldn’t there one truth?

There is truth. Truth depends on our point of view.

I think Christians need to get together and figure out what the truth is.

That would be nice if we could come to consensus on a larger truth than we now have.

The majority? I'll have to look that up. Frankly I have no idea how many Christians believe the Trinity. It’s odd that is isn’t settled

There are more Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist and Methodist Christians than Amy others. These groups are all Trinitarian.

So then, in your view, what was the purpose of God having to enter humanity? That you suggest this implies God didn’t know what humans experience, and if that is the case how can God be a moral authority? Could this be why God is indifferent to the suffering of children and the innocent?

Asked and answered: reconciliation of humanity with Divinity. It has nothing to do with effecting understanding. It has everything to do with standing with us in our suffering.

So any theology a person constructs is true? But the truth any arbitrary person has ends with them and isn't objective truth?

So long as it conforms to the discipline and hermeneutics of the constructive process. Truth is always subjective and relative.

So you don't think the resurrection means anything, nor salvation as a result of his execution?

That’s not what I said. Resurrection has deep theological meaning for us. Salvation as a result of his execution is, IMO, not at issue.

So you could be mistaken in your interpretation and beliefs.

That would imply that there is some “correct” belief or interpretation. There are only valid beliefs and interpretations, defined by their conformity to Tradition, reason, scripture, and experience.

None of this is a description of reality. Science informs us about what matter is. The "substance" of God is in the category of the imaginary.

No, the substance of God is in the category of theology.

Again you admit Christianity has a huge buffet of beliefs that any arbitrary believer picks and choses to suit their taste.

well, I wouldn’t say “arbitrary,” or “pucks and chooses,” or “to suit tastes.” Formulation of belief involves the sense of community, as well as the understanding of individuals.

 

[sojourner]

And yet God out His Seal on them

Only because the church who canonizes them is the Body of Christ.

 

[sojourner]

Tell me how else could I possibly take 1 cor 15 ?

As a broad theological statement, rather that a cursory statement of “fact.”

 

[sojourner]

Not how Jesus viewed the Scriptures at all:
“Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ” Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ” Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’ ” Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ” Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:3-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The passage is not germane to the topic and does not support your post.

 

[ElishaElijah]

LOL!! How is that supposed to help? In other words if they did not know what killed him they would have assumed that it was due to the drugs in his system.
Is that all you have?

Medical examiner stands by homicide conclusion for Floyd's death

From that article the best that can be found for you is:

Under cross-examination, though, Baker agreed with Nelson that Floyd’s heart disease and drug use “played a role” in the death.

The rest does not support you at all:

Baker testified that his examination of Floyd’s heart found no “visible or microscopic previous damage” to the heart muscle.

A medical expert who testified Thursday said a healthy person subjected to what Floyd endured would also have died.


The next one tells you that one has to judge drug effects in context. People build up tolerances to drugs:

Nelson asked Baker whether he has certified deaths by fentanyl overdose at levels lower than that seen in Floyd’s blood, and Baker said yes. But Baker also noted that levels of fentanyl must be considered in the context of how long someone had used the drug, any tolerance built up to it, and what other substances may be involved.


A couple more:

And he said he did not notice any pills or pill fragments in Floyd’s stomach.

So no evidence of recent drugs, he probably took those some time ago. In other words, not an overdose.

Lastly the coroner did not want to taint his judgment:



Baker also said he did not watch the harrowing video of the arrest before examining Floyd so that he would not be influenced by what he saw.

“I was aware that at least one video had gone viral on the internet, but I intentionally chose not to look at that until I had examined Mr. Floyd,” he said. “I did not want to bias my exam by going in with any preconceived notions that might lead me down one pathway or another.”

Other experts testified as well. They all seemed to agree on the cause of death.

Dr. Lindsey Thomas, a forensic pathologist who retired in 2017 from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office and did not work on Floyd’s case, testified earlier Friday that she agreed with Baker’s findings, but appeared to go further, saying the “primary mechanism of death” was asphyxia, or insufficient oxygen.

Read the article. It covers both sides and the overwhelming testimony is that the cause of Floyd's death was the misuse of force.

None of this changes anything, not sure your point.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The passage is not germane to the topic and does not support your post.

Sure it does and Jesus said what is written and Scripture cannot be broken. Not sure if you are believer at all how you can fight this.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The passage is not germane to the topic and does not support your post.

“For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.”
‭‭I Thessalonians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of this changes anything, not sure your point.

It proved that you were wrong. You jumped to an unjustified conclusion. It really is not that hard to understand.

You linked a coroner's report that you did not understand. That coroner himself said that it was a homicide. That alone refuted your claim. Other experts confirmed it.

 

[rational experiences]

A human in science claims I know.

What do you know?

Medical science study of. Living human. No pre human. In medical sperm not a human and ovary not a human just separate parts living inside a whole human.

So the occultist then says whole human adult as. Thesis. Humans as adults info says do not pre exist as a human.

Coercive persuasion is then applied sophism.

Occult science nuclear theoried for energy gain. To convert what pre existed.

The created.

A human to apply their science in creation says I must invent the creator.

No one can argue as all humans think theory to tell stories.

Yet creation was mass as some pre form to change not burning. That burnt being the law science conversion. That stopped by state enabled cooling.

Science mind says never owned highest pre formed mass. Own cooled converted mass.

Which science said is space as a vacuum. By conditions.

So first your claim what is greater was formed becomes less by evil burning that cools as it was removed.

Statement evil science.

What was greater as a human status informed as what is equalled. To know in thinking.

Stone the planet body that had survived.

Yet scientific theory greater was never about the planet that survived.

The thinker human says Jesus theme as human atmospheric condition extra radiation within. As consciousness.

As to think about O God one first your psyche already said same info any human uses. I cannot know. The planet's natural forming history.

Yet you are conscious in a false claim without God. O earth. As you just think inside heavens.

Where coercive sophism is then applied.

Claiming falsely I am the God self in science.

Not including first God that has to exist first for you to be enabled to stand upon it as human form.

What medical healer science understood about lying.

Science only existed by machines built via planet mass existing.

Nothing to do with just being conscious inside heavens.

Ask a human why did we get sacrificed and die before our age apparent?

Science of God dusts the planet were converted.

As consciousness only is expressed via the heavenly presence.

Radiation as far in the past as it is.
Gases of multi varied.
Water oxygen our conscious bio life support.

Reason a human can believe I came from a eternal spirit. I have water and microbes inside my body.

Yet water as mass a separate status has microbes within it. I am not water mass my own evidence. Created form water.

Created water can only change its cold status by radiation changing spirit as a gas. Which is water and gas interaction.

As a living human I am talking about that status. So I know I am separate from the status to change a body water that supports My life.

The eternal would prove it supported the reason human life in examples such as the Bab.

By raising the living humans body vibration greater than a human presence. So they would disappear. Yet return.

Living in the natural human life and living conditions heavenly form would prove a human by witness of changed human life that life was not created by God but came as a pre owned spirit that changed its body form. Because of gods owned pre existing spirit as the heavens.

As a living animal is similar in bio form it would prove they came from the same spirit. Body pre owned and changed also. As multi pre owned spirit bodies.

Reason. Two humans equal.

To be equal the human and not the sexual presence would have come from the same equal place.

To be nearly the same yet not would mean that separate spirits the same were already existing. As the eternal form.

Reason says so. We don't need science approval to be correct.

Science says radiation X mass in a past where no gases etc existed as our heavens.

To presume a thesis human form changed genetic to be an animal the claim radiation by mass would attack the human to convert them into the lesser beast. As a thesis to reason by human greater why an animal is lesser.

To prove science wrong.

Yet the radiation comes from before the animals. As determined mass.

So animals would be attacked mutated.
Same for humans.

The Jesus story.
The story of Moses.
The realisation of the Bab.

What I was taught by our holy first origin father not a baby father as a baby to adult living recorded memory heavenly.

The eternal was never science.

 

[alypius]

Because they are the claim. They are not the evidence.

Let's say that I claim to be God and then point to the sentence where I claim to be God as evidence. Are you convinced? That is what you are trying to do with the Gospels.

Could the same text make a claim and also provide reasons for accepting the claim?

 

[alypius]

Because the gospels were written up to a century after the fact by Greek scholars who likely weren't even born or at least in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified.

Why would Greek scholars bother to write about a figure from a backwater of the Roman Empire a century after the event?

 

[ElishaElijah]

It proved that you were wrong. You jumped to an unjustified conclusion. It really is not that hard to understand.

You linked a coroner's report that you did not understand. That coroner himself said that it was a homicide. That alone refuted your claim. Other experts confirmed it.

Only proves you can’t think for yourself

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why would Greek scholars bother to write about a figure from a backwater of the Roman Empire a century after the event?

There were believers in the Jesus story. That does not make it real.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only proves you can’t think for yourself

LOL! No, it is the other way around.

If you can reason you know that you are wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

@ElishaElijah , let me see if I can explain what the link I provided showed. Yes, Floyd was a drug addict. He had heart problems. He was a criminal. But none of those problems would have killed him that day. His autopsy showed that. What killed him was a police officer kneeling on his neck.

You might have similar problems. That does not make it okay for me or anyone else to end your life early.

 

[ElishaElijah]

@ElishaElijah , let me see if I can explain what the link I provided showed. Yes, Floyd was a drug addict. He had heart problems. He was a criminal. But none of those problems would have killed him that day. His autopsy showed that. What killed him was a police officer kneeling on his neck.

You might have similar problems. That does not make it okay for me or anyone else to end your life early.

Never said it was ok, Never said it was ok what the cop did. I’m not convinced that he would’ve died if he didn’t have all the drugs in his system. Simple as that