Why I believe in Christ

[TagliatelliMonster]

Religion is not mathematics nor science; it is based on faith and not on logical prooves or experimental data

Exactly, and that is exactly the problem.
I can conjure up any number of fantasies and believe them based on "faith and not on logical prooves or experimental data".

Unfalsifiable faith based models are literally infinite in number, only really limited by the potential of human imagination.

I find totally convincing the christian concept of divine love and this represents the foundation of my faith.

But you have no actual reason to, is what I'm saying.
Faith is not a pathway to truth. On faith, you can believe literally anything. Even including that which is demonstrably false.

I am a physicist, and my religious believes are absolutely coherent with our scientific knowledges

Which doesn't mean anything. Every single unfalsifiable faith based belief can be said to be coherent with scientific knowledge. It is by definition, since it is unfalsifiable..........................................

Undetectable extra dimensional unicorns play poker on the surface of Neptune. There you go. Nothing in science is incompatible with that one and it can't be shown to be wrong.

; therefore, my faith has also solid rational grounds

The same kind of "solid rational grounds" as you'ld have for the poker-playing unicorns.

, but religion never reduces to a study of the physical realm and requires acts of faith.

Yep. The very definition of superstition.

The Old Testament is to be interpreted in the light of the New Testament; in the Old Testament we find an imperfect theology.

Nothing in the NT overrides the barbarity of the OT.

 

[mmarco]

Mathematical models describe the universe. It's not a case of those models being the universe.
And the minds that conjure up these mathematical models, are humans.

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What do you think that matter, electromagnetic waves, etc are?
The point is that all we know about the universe is the "description" given by abstract mathematical models, because the universe manifests itself as the realization of abstract mathematical models, which intrinsically conceptual nature implies that they can exist only as concepts in a thinking mind.
The hypothesis that such a mathematically structured universe may exist independently from a thinking mind is totally unreasonable.
I think that atheism is a kind of superstition, because it is totally irrational and based on a totally arbitrary and unreasonable assumption (the non-existence of God)
​

 

[mmarco]

But you have no actual reason to, is what I'm saying.

Actually, I have actual reasons to believe in the existence of a personal God; it is the atheist who has no actual reason to believe in the non-existence of God.

Faith is not a pathway to truth. On faith, you can believe literally anything. Even including that which is demonstrably false.

Faith is a pathway to the Truth only when you are truly seeking the Truth and you are willing to accept the Truth; in fact God loves us and He reveals himself to those who truly seek Him.
Those who are not willing to accept the Truth, delude themselves and invent false religious doctrines.

The same kind of "solid rational grounds" as you'ld have for the poker-playing unicorns.

I totally disagree; my argument for God's existence is supported by a rational analisys of the laws of physics, while the poker-playing unicorns hypothesis is not supported by any rational arguments.

Nothing in the NT overrides the barbarity of the OT.

Simply false; in the Gospel Jesus says;
Matthew 19: 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Jesus says clearly that the Old Testament contains imperfect moral laws because of the hardness of biblical people's heart. This is the reason why the Old Testament contains an imperfect theology and must be interpreted in the light of the New Testament.

 

[Nakosis]

The fundamental reason why I believe in Jesus Christ, is that I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God. I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and mercifull and that God is near to us so that we may open our heart to Him, be in communion with Him and be saved.

Does this require that you believe in a historical Jesus as well or is belief in the concept of Jesus Christ enough?

 

[mmarco]

Does this require that you believe in a historical Jesus as well or is belief in the concept of Jesus Christ enough?

My point is the concept of Jesus Christ as God willing to be crucified for us, is certainly a truth; therefore the historical Jesus of the Gospels is the true God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's not what the bible says though.

I don't believe in sola scriptura.

 

[OtherSheep]

And that's why the Romans executed him for sedition and mocked him as the false "King of the Jews" if they believed that he was the deliverer of the Jews from the Roman oppression (ie a messiah) as you claim.

I believe that Jesus gave His commandment-followers the Holy Spirit ability to remember what Jesus said and understand what He means. Conversely, I feel that those who don't keep the commandments of Jesus don't have that ability. I think my telling you what the Holy Spirit only tells to Jesus-followers won't ever make sense to you. I believe/feel/think that the Bible says Jesus never came to deliver the Judaeans out from under Rome.

 

[OtherSheep]

I don't believe in sola scriptura.

Then what do you believe/feel/think should be used to interpret the Bible, other than the Bible itself?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Then what do you believe/feel/think should be used to interpret the Bible, other than the Bible itself?

A mix of tradition and reasoned context.

 

[OtherSheep]

Acts 24:15 says that both the just and unjust will be resurrected

Rev.20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[OtherSheep]

A mix of tradition and reasoned context.

I believe/think/feel that Jesus doesn't care for any of that, or He wouldn't have given His followers the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe/think/feel that Jesus doesn't care for any of that, or He wouldn't have given His followers the Holy Spirit.

What? The Holy Spirit is the one guiding the Church in matters of doctrine, according to the belief. The two aren't separate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

totally agree, science doesn't prove nor demonstrate anything (prove and demonstrate are synonimous)

If you agree, how are you not getting this difference?

 

[OtherSheep]

What? The Holy Spirit is the one guiding the Church in matters of doctrine, according to the belief. The two aren't separate.

I believe/feel/think that the church is pretending to be God. I believe/feel/think that there is only one good shepherd, according to John 10... the whole chapter. Jesus says ye are all brethren. I believe/think/feel that means nobody is the church or the doctrineologists. I think/believe/feel that all of the people who follow Jesus alone and keep His commandments don't need a go-between to tell "we the people" what Jesus meant. Jesus says we shall all be taught by God, and that other shepherds are robbers.

 

[Mitty]

I believe that Jesus gave His commandment-followers the Holy Spirit ability to remember what Jesus said and understand what He means. Conversely, I feel that those who don't keep the commandments of Jesus don't have that ability. I think my telling you what the Holy Spirit only tells to Jesus-followers won't ever make sense to you.

That's their choice.

I believe/feel/think that the Bible says Jesus never came to deliver the Judaeans out from under Rome.

So why did the Romans execute him for sedition and mock him for being the false "King of the Jews?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe/feel/think that the church is pretending to be God. I believe/feel/think that there is only one good shepherd, according to John 10... the whole chapter. Jesus says ye are all brethren. I believe/think/feel that means nobody is the church or the doctrineologists. I think/believe/feel that all of the people who follow Jesus alone and keep His commandments don't need a go-between to tell "we the people" what Jesus meant. Jesus says we shall all be taught by God, and that other shepherds are robbers.

What do you believe/feel/think, comrade?

The Church is the people who are belong to it. If everyone just interprets it for themselves, we have chaos, which we have since the Protestants decided to throw out holy tradition or even having a learned clergy, and decided to make things up for themselves. I can't imagine God approves of this situation so it stands to reason that He left some sort of institutional guidance.

 

[Mitty]

Rev.20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Which is why 1Tim 4:10 says that unbelievers are saved and will inherit the kingdom of heaven because they are poor in spirit (Matt 5:3).

 

[Mitty]

The Church is the people who are belong to it. If everyone just interprets it for themselves, we have chaos, which we have since the Protestants decided to throw out holy tradition or even having a learned clergy, and decided to make things up for themselves. I can't imagine God approves of this situation so it stands to reason that He left some sort of institutional guidance.

But have you ever had a face to face chat with that god about whether it approves or not, or know anyone who has, and is that why the RC church discourages it's customers from reading the bible for themselves?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But have you ever had a face to face chat with that god about whether it approves or not, or know anyone who has, and is that why the RC church discourages it's customers from reading the bible for themselves?

That's total bs. The Catholic Church does not discourage anyone from reading the Bible. How ridiculous. I was given a Bible as part of the RCIA course. Are you trolling?

 

[Mitty]

That's total bs. The Catholic Church does not discourage anyone from reading the Bible. How ridiculous. I was given a Bible as part of the RCIA course.

Are you trolling?
Is that why less than 10% ever bother to go to church now, and why over 30% said they had no religious affiliation on the last national census compared to 22% on the previous census