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Featured Why I am an atheist

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. janesix

    janesix Active Member

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    Yes.
     
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  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Thank you for your ^ above ^ reply. ( Yes, Not known...... does Not mean does Not exist )

    In Scripture, first the ' sin issue ' has to be settled here on Earth first before there will be intelligent life elsewhere.
    If there was faithful life elsewhere then at this time there would be No need to first settle the ' sin issue ' here on Earth.
    This issue will Not be completely settled until the end of Christ's coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth ends - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

    Right now, Satan challenges all of us as he did Job - Job 2:4-5
    ' Touch our 'flesh'...... ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
    Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
     
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  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    You're far from alone in your thinking, especially since we have never seen them.
    Jesus' powerful works (miracles) were a small sample, a preview or coming attraction of what is to come.
    Come on a grand world-wide scale.
    In Eden there was No polluting of Earth, there was No food shortages, there was No sickness and No enemy death.
    What Jesus did on a small scale he will be doing on a GRAND global scale.
    This is all part of why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come!
    Come and undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
    To me the logic of 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13; Luke 21:11 is Not blind or hidden from us.
    Coupled with the fact that the good news of God's kingdom ( Daniel 2:44) is now declared earth wide just as Jesus said - Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 to me, this is highly visible in our day or time frame, so what is as written so it is and so it shall be.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Interesting that other than Earth the other planets are named by men, whereas God named this planet : EARTH - Genesis 1:10
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder what you find fantasy about Luke 21:11 that there will be GREAT earthquakes and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences......
     
  6. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    You sure believe some goofy things
     
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  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Then present the "right God."
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Like that is hard to predict.

    There's facts in the Bible. Like
    "egypt".

    There are facts in "Goldilocks and the three bears" too.
     
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  9. janesix

    janesix Active Member

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    I will when I figure it out.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    However, chapter 21 of Luke and chapter 24 of Matthew was written for our day or time frame 2,000 year ago for us.
    ALL the pieces now fit together coupled with the international declaring about God's kingdom now nearing its 'final phase' as Jesus said - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
    Even the year 2020 should have shown us that ' Hind Sight is 2020 ' especially in connection to Scripture- Luke 21:11; 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    You're drifting too far from the shore
     
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  12. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Mods, please note for future reference. I tend to use the word "woo" to mean, "wow, yes I approve," but also to mean -- well you know, pure "woo."

    So if I reply to a post with just "woo," you have no basis to know in which sense I am using it. :D:rolleyes:
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I understand, and I in no way can refute what you say above. In my case, I think you probably remember what I went through that led me to reaffiliate with Catholicism even though I'm very much of the lunatic left-wing fringe of it.

    IOW, I got far more questions than answers.
     
  14. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    This seems like a post that was built with a lot of thought. Don't feel 'obliged' to respond if you don't want to, I am just sort of 'writing notes in the margins' of what I read

    In noting that you divided believers into two groups, one that thoroughly 'believes,' and one that pretends, do they both ask this same question from the same motivational root .. The group that pretends I suppose, might ask the question with more empathy in mind. Actually, I am unsure

    That seems very young to have read the book from start to finish, though I don't disbelieve you. Some people simply are born with more ability than others. I had not read it from front to cover until I was in my early twenties, and it took me a long time. Though I had read the bible with the catholic canon in it. I also had stacks of national geographic magazines I got into that were in my parent's attic, they were from the 70's and 80's. Perhaps similarly, reading the bible and then reading science would change my outlook. I drifted into agnosticism / atheism for a long time

    And does this change at all when you think about the more fundamentalists types? I noticed that you are from Canada. I am from the U.S., and I intuit that things of this nature might be markedly different around here. I have one aunt that is an extremely devout believer, (or was, I haven't seen her since I was a kid) and got my cousin to read sermons at church and all that, and she believed in hell etc. Constant talk of Jesus whenever I was sent to visit.. She once hosted foreign exchange students from Vietnam, and she freaked out when they were blessing the walls of her house somehow

    So something I came across in reading psychology the other day was this idea of intermittent reinforcement. That is, your brain actually gets more dopamine if the odds of you succeeding go down a bit .. Well, I am simplifying it greatly, there are a lot of mechanisms in play I think, but that seems to be something that occurs, if I perceive science correctly

    It seems to show the temporal effect on divine revelation, that is to say that time will eventually chew up even those things that people thought of as 'divinely inspired' standards. This kind of chemistry is hopefully a good thing, ultimately. What it says about anything can't last, it can't stand the test of all the minds that hit it throughout time. Therefore, the hope is that unpalatable views will become antiquated

    Seems like it is a division between Jesus and Paul here, and probably many thinkers between then and now. What gave cause to question either in light of the other? It seems somewhat odd

    Part of that issue is the Christian notion that everyone is judged for their own sin, and this means that the collective vs. the individual dynamic is an underlying dynamic. The problem is, that I think that a lot of secular or non-Christian thinking tends to consider the collective as the more appropriate mode of analysis. Your hardship, in the Christian setting, is more thoroughly perceived as being your problem. It was your own faith in god that faltered, or it boils down to some way that you did not act correctly. This seems to be the way it is in western Christian styles anyway, I'm not sure if the Orthodox think of it the same way

    I am afraid you seemed to have lost me with your language here

    This sort of loses me a bit as well.. Then again, I am unsure if nature did take the 'surest route' to get through time.. Though it does seem to be a goal directed activity, I think it may have been, or may still be, faced with subjective options. There is no reason it needed to sacrifice efficiency in order to produce thinking beings, 'thinking' is something that is clearly imprecise and inefficient. Ordinarily, it just produces something that can physically chase the bison and kill it. How does it get to something that has to struggle to think up how to make the spear or arrow... It doesn't really make a lot of sense
     
  15. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    It might be a question of power and responsibility, who or what has it, and how much of it is had by each node. If all the power is consolidated in one source, then that source is responsible for every judgement or action. I tend to think that by merit of our existence alone, this cannot really be quite the case. Assuming that we do think, at that thinking is empirically a process that occurs as a verb , that leads to panjective ends, then the species can be said to make decisions. So we get a share of good/evil decision pie, and I don't see how it would be fair to any deity, who wasn't putting man in a state of possession, to be ascribed with the totality the motivation behind our choices. Without free-will, then I don't see the point in thinking. The hope is that we can keep thinking using our sciences, to come up with better solutions to get to more good

    I don't really see it quite in that way, I don't see anything wrong with being unsatisfied with the answers we are often given. Spirituality seems better thought of as a journey, rather than an end, to me. History has often created religions were authority became calcified, and where no one could have their own testament. Part of this thinking has led us to the creation of western culture, as we now know it.. A note though on individuality, which sits oddly in all this: the 'individual' is to be goaded into conformity.. You come to god, via being an individual. The exploratory possibility of being an individual is not underlined in the positive sense.. You are an individual to show that you can restrain what you are as an individual

    I don't think that is the stance of most bible based religion, nor is it really my stance

    I agree here to a degree, I practice art (music) and see it as trying to get to a connection that is in some way ineffable

    I diverge in that, I think that the individual's sense of morality is probably a separate thing from either of those, but in each of those structures, they could finds the material for good or bad morality. If it helps the theist in the moral sense to become an atheist, then maybe he should, and vice versa, if helps the atheist to become a Christian, then it may be better for the world if he would.

    Hm, well my suspicion in reading the new testament, is that mercy sometimes was not as much of an agape concept as that. After all, it was written that you can only get to god narrowly through the son.. And the mercy is that such a narrow road was provided for you at all. With the myriad styles of human religion throughout the world, and the christian history where things went off the rails , I would tend to agree with what looks like a more agape version of mercy that you describe. As to hell, I tend to think that we make enough of it happen on earth at times. When ancient writers described hell, surely its a metaphor for the conditions we can create. So the good news is, we don't have to act in a way that creates hell

    Just as concerning, is what the theological reaction might be once science gets us farther along with gene editing. It's hard to say what fundamentalist Christians will say about it. The preservation of suffering is sometimes sort of lauded, it seems.. Doesn't it make sense to be able to abort, if things change suddenly and you can no longer afford it

    Nowadays things are getting a little dangerous with that... if you follow the news, you might see that things seem to be getting a little conspiratorial

    Sometimes it can take a lifetime for someone to really think something through, to really get their own grip on understanding a concept. A lot of people don't go to forums for example, so what they're thinking might be that much more on the back burner. There is also a theme that runs through ancient writers, that too much knowledge can bring sorrow.. I think that was part of the wisdom of king solomon.. it talks about that in the poetic edda as well..

    I think of Christianity, and all other religions, as just experiences that humans had somewhere in history. Those things which were once putting a heavy load on the whole system, are now just sub-theologies in a far greater system, and remain as sub-theological nodes in human history. They happened, and things happened a result of their stimulation to the human animal. And so they are phased from objectivity into subjectivity, and are there to be studied. Or as I alluded to be for, they can also remain as doors that can be populated by believers, if individuals so choose
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    .... and what is found drifted too far from the shore, but the 'restless sea' (of humanity) the wicked people who are like a troubled sea.- Isaiah 57:20; Isaiah 17:12-13
     
  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    So thats who you identify with
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    And herein lies the problem... "that the god that was presented to me simply does not reconcile with the reality around me."

    Reminds me of my wife who lived in the poor section of Caracas, Venezuela living in a dilapidated colonial style house. Her reality was no marriage lasted more than 7 years, living among mice was normal (I killed 21 with mouse traps in one night as we played dominoes), and there was no such think as a shrimp cocktail... for that matter what WAS a shrimp cocktail let alone a cat that can climb a tree.

    Your reality doesn't establish truth.

    Today, God has changed her reality into His reality.
     
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  19. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    In what language did God name this planet "Earth?" And what was its name in that language?
     
  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Active Member

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    Deism answers your objections quite nicely. It is a good reason why God doesn't answer prayers, why there is no evidence Jesus is alive today, why evil is so prevalent in the world, why there is so much suffering, why we seem to be on our own down here. God created something as magnificent as DNA/RNA code coded into every living thing. One cell contains more information than a set of Encyclopedia Britannica. That's too complex a thing to come about by random chance. Yet we are on our own down here. We get no help from a Higher Being. Children starving to death and dying horribly of ravaging diseases will not get any help from this extremely intelligent but completely uncaring Power. This is why I am a deist though my profile says pantheist. I didn't see deist as a choice.
     
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