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Featured Why Hinduism?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Oct 15, 2022.

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  1. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    "One's Own Dharma".

    It is Dharma in harmony with oneself. Understood, expressed and to some extent shaped in ways that are in accordance and harmony with one's personal vocations and affinities.

    How it relates to Dharma in the sense of doctrine is a fascinating and perhaps disconcerting exercise for anyone to consider.
     
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  2. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    There are a lot of sewage web sites. I'm sure we would agree that a web site written by someone who really knows the subject matter and clearly explains it stands apart from those that are plain wrong or the product of shallow reasoning.
     
  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Swadharma is personal dharma, or the dharma of any individual, and it would differ from individual to individual. This, of course, opens a whole new book into the various kinds of dharma. In my sampradaya we learn of 4, but I just googled now, and some say 5, 7, etc. Let's just say dharma is no simple concept, and like a lot of other things in Hinduism, has a wide variety of understandings depending on school and sect.
     
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  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Right. Adharma is the bad dharma. Sudharma is good dharma. And so on. So Dharma is a generic word and will change with the sentence.

    Anyway I don't wish to bring in abrahamic faiths and how bad they are into this discussion Luis. Hope you understand.

    Thank you for your information.
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    What are these 4 dharma's?
     
  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thank you very much Vinayaka. Really appreciate it.
     
  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    That's not exactly what I meant Sunrise. I said "study", not "read". ;)

    A website does not have to be sewage but not enough. But as you say, there could be fantastic resources also. There are many websites that are as good as going to uni.

    Let me give an example. There is a website called stanford encyclopedia of philosophy. There maybe many more. But if you want to study philosophy, this is not a good source. You need to get a proper book on philosophy to tutor you. I believe the same goes to every topic.
     
  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    Two alternate accounts from two puranas (one which considers Siva as supreme and the other who considers Visnu as supreme).
    The dispute between Brahmā and Viṣṇu [Chapter 7]
    CHAPTER EIGHT

    Please note: I am not saying that the English translations here are 100% best, but the thrust of the stories should be clear enough.
     
    #169 sayak83, Oct 17, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    That's good enough Sayak. I truly thank you for the support. So kind of people really. So kind of you.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    @sayak83 This is Shivas Purana chapter seven right?

    This is very different from the so called Trimurti concept propagated in western literature. Now I understand the dilemma.

    This is unbelievable. Unbelievable. First time I read it. Thank you.
     
  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    'Swa', one's own. For example, my 'swadharma' does not include rituals (except veneration of ancestors) and worship of deities, or 'Ishwara pranidhana' (contemplation about God, a part of Patanjali's Yoga). :)
    'Dharma' is duty and 'Swadharma' is a person's own concept of duty, which may add or subtract something, but all of them must be humane.
     
    #172 Aupmanyav, Oct 18, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
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  13. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    Yes one is from Siva Purana and the other from Bhagavata Purana. The first extols Siva and the other extols Visnu.
    It has zero to do with the Trinity concept in Christianity.
     
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  14. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    @firedragon

    I will expand on this and provide the scriptural basis of my position. There are many, but two of them will do adequately. It comes from the Brihad-Aranyaka Upanisad which is considered the biggest and the oldest of the chief Upanisads of Hinduism.

    Excerpts showing the neutral monistic Brahman is the foundation of external reality. The first comes from a conversation between Yagnavalka, the chief rishi/seer in the text and Gargi Vachnavi, an eminent female rishi of her times in the court of king Janaka.
    The first section discusses what is the fundamental entity that is the basis of all existence.
    The second section from the same chapter discussed what is the fundamental essence of all entities.
    Eventually, the last segment of both conversation ends with the identical description for both thereby stating that they are the same.

    In my opinion that is the key and unique (or at least the earliest as BHU was composed around 900 BCE based on linguist analysis of the type of Sanskrit being spoken here) insight of Hindu philosophy. The rest is expanding on the concept, clarifying it, justifying it and using cultural systems to develop practices that help one realize it.

    BHU Chapter 3 section 8

    Then (Gargi) Vacaknavi spoke. "Distinguished Brahmins!" she said. "I am go-
    ing to ask this man two questions. If he can give me the answers to them, none
    of you will be able to defeat him in a theological debate."
    "Ask, Gargi"
    2 She said: "I rise to challenge you, Yajnavalkya, with two questions, much as a
    fierce warrior of Kasi or Videha, stringing his unstrung bow and taking two deadly
    arrows in his hand, would rise to challenge a rival. Give me the answers to them!"
    "Ask, Gargi."
    3 She said: "The things above the sky, the things below the earth, and the things
    between the earth and the sky, as well as all those things people here refer to as past,
    present, and future—on what, Yajnavalkya, are all these woven back and forth?"
    4 He replied: "The things above the sky, the things below the earth, and the
    things between the earth and the sky, as well as all those things people here refer to
    as past, present, and future—on space (akasa), Gargi, are all these woven back and forth."
    5 She responded: "All honor to you, Yajnavalkya. You really cleared that up for
    me! Get ready for the second."
    "Ask, Gargi."
    "On what, then, is space woven back and forth?"
    8 He replied: "That, Gargi, is the imperishable (Brahman), and Brahmins refer to it like
    this—it is neither coarse nor fine; it is neither short nor long; it has neither blood
    nor fat; it is without shadow or darkness; it is without air or space; it is without
    contact; it has no taste or smell; it is without sight or hearing; it is without speech or
    mind; it is without energy, breath, or mouth; it is beyond measure; it has nothing
    within it or outside of it; it does not eat anything; and no one eats it.
    9 "This is the imperishable, Gargi, at whose command the sun and the moon
    stand apart. This is the imperishable, Gargi, at whose command the earth and the
    sky stand apart. This is the imperishable, Gargi, at whose command seconds and
    hours, days and nights, fortnights and months, seasons and years stand apart. This is
    the imperishable, Gargi, at whose command rivers flow from the snowy mountains
    in their respective directions, some to the east and others to the west. This is the
    imperishable, Gargi, at whose command people flatter donors, and gods are de-
    pendent on patrons of sacrifices, and forefathers on ancestral offerings.
    10 "Without knowing this imperishable, Gargi, even if a man were to make of-
    ferings, to offer sacrifices, and to perform austerities in this world for many
    thousands of years, all that would come to naught. Pitiful is the man, Gargi, who
    departs from this world without knowing this imperishable. But a man who departs
    from this world after he has come to know this imperishable—he, Gargi, is a Brah-
    min.
    11 "This is the imperishable, Gargi, which sees but can't be seen; which hears
    but can't be heard; which thinks but can't be thought of; which perceives but can't
    be perceived. Besides this imperishable, there is no one that sees, no one that hears,
    no one that thinks, and no one that perceives.

    "On this very imperishable, Gargi, space is woven back and forth."
    12 "Distinguished Brahmins!" said Gargi. "You should consider yourself lucky
    if you escape from this man by merely paying him your respects. None of you will
    ever defeat him in a theological debate."

    BHU Chapter 3 Section 7

    Yajnavalkya, Now tell us who the inner controller is."
    3 "This self (atman) of yours who is present within but is different from the
    earth, whom the earth does not know, whose body is the earth, and who controls the
    earth from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    4 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the waters,
    whom the waters do not know, whose body is the waters, and who controls the wa-
    ters from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    5 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the fire, whom
    the fire does not know, whose body is the fire, and who controls the fire from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    6 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the intermediate
    region, whom the intermediate region does not know, whose body is the intermedi-
    ate region, and who controls the intermediate region from within—he is the inner
    controller, the immortal.
    7 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the wind, whom
    the wind does not know, whose body is the wind, and who controls the wind from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    8 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the sky, whom
    the sky does not know, whose body is the sky, and who controls the sky from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    9 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the sun, whom
    the sun does not know, whose body is the sun, and who controls the sun from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    10 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the quarters,
    whom the quarters do not know, whose body is the quarters, and who controls the
    quarters from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    11 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the moon and
    the stars, whom the moon and the stars do not know, whose body is the moon and
    the stars, and who controls the moon and the stars from within—he is the inner
    controller, the immortal.
    12 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from space, whom
    space does not know, whose body is space, and who controls space from within—he
    is the inner controller, the immortal.
    13 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from darkness,
    whom darkness does not know, whose body is darkness, and who controls darkness
    from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    14 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from light, whom
    light does not know, whose body is light, and who controls light from within—he is
    the inner controller, the immortal."
    That was with respect to the divine sphere. 15 What follows is with respect to
    beings.
    "This self of yours who is present within but is different from all beings, whom
    all beings do not know, whose body is all beings, and who controls all beings from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal."
    That was with respect to beings.16 What follows is with respect to the body
    (atman).
    "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the breath, whom
    the breath does not know, whose body is the breath, and who controls the breath
    from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    17 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from speech, whom
    speech does not know, whose body is speech, and who controls speech from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    18 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from sight, whom
    sight does not know, whose body is sight, and who controls sight from within—he
    is the inner controller, the immortal.
    19 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from hearing, whom
    hearing does not know, whose body is hearing, and who controls hearing from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    20 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the mind,
    whom the mind does not know, whose body is the mind, and who controls the mind
    from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    21 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the skin, whom
    the skin does not know, whose body is the skin, and who controls the skin from
    within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    22 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from perception,
    whom perception does not know, whose body is perception, and who controls per-
    ception from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    23 "This self of yours who is present within but is different from the semen,
    whom the semen does not know, whose body is the semen, and who controls the
    semen from within—he is the inner controller, the immortal.
    "He sees, but he can't be seen; he hears, but he can't be heard; he thinks, but he
    can't be thought of; he perceives, but he can't be perceived. Besides him, there is no
    one who sees, no one who hears, no one who thinks, and no one who perceives. It is
    this self of yours who is the inner controller, the immortal. All besides this is grief.
    "
    Thereupon, Uddalaka Aruni fell silent.


    I am using a translation from a printed book, but a good translation can be had here
    Yajnavalkya and Gargi (II) [Section VIII]
    Yajnavalkya and Uddalaka [Section VII]
     
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  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Adharma is perhaps best translated as "lack of wisdom".

    Sudharma is a word that I had not previously met. Googling it suggests that it is more of a proper name for various people than a word with a meaning of its own.

    Dharma is IMO more of a contextual word than quite a generic one. There are subtle reasons why its meaning changes, and IMO those reasons relate to the teachings themselves. I expect that some lines, teachers, schools and sampradayas will rarely if ever use some variations and meanings, because they do not fit their teachings.

    I have to admit that I stand surprised by how you did not bring Abrahamic expectations to this thread, far as I can tell. It is a nice (if disconcerting, if I am sincere) surprise.
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Sayak. You are a Goddess. XXX.
     
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    It will depend on the sentence. It could also mean bad qualities. Bad morals.

    That's bogus. It could be a name of someone, but it has a meaning. It means good dharma. Su or is prefix that makes any general term "good". Like sugantha, Gantha meaning smell.

    Dharma is a generic word.

    Because it's not relevant Luis.
     
  18. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Here comes the authority claims again...
     
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  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    @sayak83

    Is it possible for you to direct me to a sanskrit text on this?
     
  20. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I don’t know if I chose Hinduism or it chose me, or rather, God chose me. In my case God is Vishnu in his Krishna form. I was Catholic from birth, born into an Italian-American family. But from the time I was an early teen I was drawn to Hinduism and India. I had no problem believing in multiple deities as manifestations of one God, despite what Christianity teaches. I even considered Jesus to be what we call ishta-devata, “chosen [form of] God”, among many manifestations, or avatars.

    The ontological philosophy I adhere to as a Vaishnava (devotee of Vishnu) is called Vishishtadvaita, “advaita (oneness) with qualifications”. All diversity subsumes to the whole. Simply put, think of what the waves are to the ocean, heat and light are to the sun. They exist yet are dependent on their source for their existence.

    Do I believe that God is a blue dude with four arms? No, that is just the image that (partly and inadequately) describes his powers and attributes… a picture is worth a thousand words.
     
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