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Why Hinduism

firedragon

Veteran Member
As far as i know

1. Hinduism is a term that refers to the religion or/and philosophy of the Hindu. But is it the other way around or is it simply both ways?
2. Scholars have said that it is a pantheistic religion. But is it monotheistic or is it polytheistic?
3. Hinduism doesnt take evil as necessarily bad or does it? Is it the balancing act of the sustainer, the brahma? Or is there diversity in this matter?
4. Is Hinduism the oldest religion? What are the findings? Is it that ancient religions found in the region all just "Hinduism"? Or are they truly scriptural?
5. Are Hindu scripture the oldest found? What are the paleographic/manuscript evidences for the position?
6. As a religion is Hinduism the most diverse and extensive in terms of philosophical wealth?

Why are the Hindu's steady in their faith? Why are their numbers globally so stable and secure, in history, current world and estimated future values? What is Hinduism? Why Hinduism?

I would be honoured to hear some of your thoughts. And i thank you in advance.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
As far as i know

1. Hinduism is a term that refers to the religion or/and philosophy of the Hindu. But is it the other way around or is it simply both ways?
2. Scholars have said that it is a pantheistic religion. But is it monotheistic or is it polytheistic?
3. Hinduism doesnt take evil as necessarily bad or does it? Is it the balancing act of the sustainer, the brahma? Or is there diversity in this matter?
4. Is Hinduism the oldest religion? What are the findings? Is it that ancient religions found in the region all just "Hinduism"? Or are they truly scriptural?
5. Are Hindu scripture the oldest found? What are the paleographic/manuscript evidences for the position?
6. As a religion is Hinduism the most diverse and extensive in terms of philosophical wealth?

Why are the Hindu's steady in their faith? Why are their numbers globally so stable and secure, in history, current world and estimated future values? What is Hinduism? Why Hinduism?

I would be honoured to hear some of your thoughts. And i thank you in advance.


Hinduism is a term for a vast umbrella of belief systems. Depending on who you ask, you will get many different answers. It has a billion adherents. All of the above questions could be answered in 3 ways ... 1) what the person believes to be the generalist answer for all Hindus (which could be wrong) 2) from their sect's or locale's perspective. (and many Hindus, because they haven't gotten out much, believe their sectarian stance is the only stance for all Hindus, so will speak authoritatively, which is misleading) and 3( from their personal perspective.

Trying to understand Hinduism is like trying to understand Delhi, Rio de Janeiro, London, Dubai, and Tokyo and their respective main languages, all simultaneously. It's an impossible task, even for Hindus themselves.

So when someone comes along and tries to figure out what Hindus believe, it's not at all like any other study of any other religion, as most other religions are narrower in scope.

I think it would be better for you to explore some generalist websites or books rather than ask maybe 5 (if you're lucky) people on an internet forum.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Hinduism is a term for a vast umbrella of belief systems. Depending on who you ask, you will get many different answers. It has a billion adherents. All of the above questions could be answered in 3 ways ... 1) what the person believes to be the generalist answer for all Hindus (which could be wrong) 2) from their sect's or locale's perspective. (and many Hindus, because they haven't gotten out much, believe their sectarian stance is the only stance for all Hindus, so will speak authoritatively, which is misleading) and 3( from their personal perspective.

Hmm. I thought it might be like that. But you put a very interesting perspective into my mind. Though i have been to India many times, i have not been there as a grown up looking for insight in the sociology or cognitive science of religion perspectives. And knowing the size of the country both in land mass and the most vastly changing people from place to place i guess its just too much to grasp. Very interesting.

Trying to understand Hinduism is like trying to understand Delhi, Rio de Janeiro, London, Dubai, and Tokyo and their respective main languages, all simultaneously. It's an impossible task, even for Hindus themselves.

So when someone comes along and tries to figure out what Hindus believe, it's not at all like any other study of any other religion, as most other religions are narrower in scope.

I think it would be better for you to explore some generalist websites or books rather than ask maybe 5 (if you're lucky) people on an internet forum.

Thanks but websites are non-sensical to me. Also, even books are limited. Keeping all studies aside, i would like to get perspectives as well. Even if its 5 people here, one person might give such an insight that may outrun all the websites and even high-end, so called "scholarly" books on Hinduism. Thank you for your insight.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Trying to understand Hinduism is like trying to understand Delhi, Rio de Janeiro, London, Dubai, and Tokyo and their respective main languages, all simultaneously. It's an impossible task, even for Hindus themselves.
A friend of mine spent a summer in India studying Gandhi's effect on Hinduism, and he very much confirms what you well posted above. Even the basic question as to whether Hinduism is mono or polytheistic varies from area to area, especially urban v rural.
BTW, even though he lost 30 pounds through catching amoebic dysentery, he loved it there and tried to return a few years later but had to cancel because of not having enough $.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
A friend of mine spent a summer in India studying Gandhi's effect on Hinduism, and he very much confirms what you well posted above. Even the basic question as to whether Hinduism is mono or polytheistic varies from area to area, especially urban v rural.
BTW, even though he lost 30 pounds through catching amoebic dysentery, he loved it there and tried to return a few years later but had to cancel because of not having enough $.

What about what the scripture says? Doesnt it matter at all in Hinduism? Is it only sociology that impacts the philosophy? e.g. what does the scripture say about the theism of HInduism? Is it mono or poly?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Hmm. I thought it might be like that. But you put a very interesting perspective into my mind. Though i have been to India many times, i have not been there as a grown up looking for insight in the sociology or cognitive science of religion perspectives. And knowing the size of the country both in land mass and the most vastly changing people from place to place i guess its just too much to grasp. Very interesting.

Thanks but websites are non-sensical to me. Also, even books are limited. Keeping all studies aside, i would like to get perspectives as well. Even if its 5 people here, one person might give such an insight that may outrun all the websites and even high-end, so called "scholarly" books on Hinduism. Thank you for your insight.

"What is Hinduism?" by the editors of Hinduism Today is anything but scholarly. Most Indic scholars are non-Hindus who bash Hinduism in insidious ways, by using false narratives. Please try watching one video of the Dharma Speaks series. He might change your mind.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A friend of mine spent a summer in India studying Gandhi's effect on Hinduism, and he very much confirms what you well posted above. Even the basic question as to whether Hinduism is mono or polytheistic varies from area to area, especially urban v rural.
BTW, even though he lost 30 pounds through catching amoebic dysentery, he loved it there and tried to return a few years later but had to cancel because of not having enough $.

Both times I went, I got very very ill. It's nearly unavoidable.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
What about what the scripture says? Doesnt it matter at all in Hinduism? Is it only sociology that impacts the philosophy? e.g. what does the scripture say about the theism of HInduism? Is it mono or poly?
There are many many many scriptures, often contradictory. This is an incomplete list.

main-qimg-78cdba67040527c4015d1d76468dd28b
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
What about what the scripture says? Doesnt it matter at all in Hinduism? Is it only sociology that impacts the philosophy? e.g. what does the scripture say about the theism of HInduism? Is it mono or poly?

Hinduism isn't monotheistic, rather, it's monistic. There is only one thing, Brahman. Anything and everything we see is a manifestation, emanation, reflection, of Brahman. Even what we think of as "God". Sarvam khalvidam brahma "all this verily is Brahman", from the Chandogya Upanishad. Scriptures are actually ambiguous, or rather, can be interpreted in a variety of ways vis-á-vis theology.

Keep in mind Hindu scriptures are not commandments, there are no commandments (well, there's the Manusmriti, but no one pays attention to that anymore :D), the scriptures are in no way comparable to Abrahamic scriptures. Hindu scriptures are largely hymns and poetry dedicated to the gods; philosophical treatises; musings; explanations; scientific, artistic and even medical treatises.

Depending on the person, Hinduism for them can be either monotheistic or polytheistic. Actually Hindu monotheism is more like henotheism: belief or dedication to one God, but accepting the existence of other gods and their reverence. Someone told me my beliefs are "theologically monist, and ritually polytheistic", for example. But I'm probably more henotheist because the focus of my worship is Krishna, but I do not exclude other deities either at home or in temple.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Hinduism isn't monotheistic, rather, it's monistic.

There are plenty of pluralists and dualists in Hinduism as well. The more common version of Saiva Siddhanta than the one I follow is pluralist, for example ... 3 eternal realities, not one. That's why I often say i follow monistic Saiva Siddhanta ... to separate it from the other school.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
There are many many many scriptures, often contradictory. This is an incomplete list.

main-qimg-78cdba67040527c4015d1d76468dd28b

Is it contradiction or contradistinction? Is it one God who emphasises himself to what ever light that reflects on things so all the Gods, the universe, everything is the emphasis that one God makes upon himself?

Or is it actually contradictory?

e.g. The three are Agni who burns up the vegetation, the all-seeing Sum and the invisible Vayu or Wind. Three kept in close concealment cause no motion ; of speech, men speak only the fourth division. They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman. To what is One, sages give many a title : they*call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.

That famous passage is of course from the Rig Vedh. Now that clearly states that there is one, though there are many names. Are Krishna, Vishnu avatara's? If they are avataras isnt it one God?

Thanks for the list of Hindu scripture btw.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
1. Hinduism is a term that refers to the religion or/and philosophy of the Hindu. But is it the other way around or is it simply both ways?
2. Scholars have said that it is a pantheistic religion. But is it monotheistic or is it polytheistic?
3. Hinduism doesnt take evil as necessarily bad or does it? Is it the balancing act of the sustainer, the brahma? Or is there diversity in this matter?
4. Is Hinduism the oldest religion? What are the findings? Is it that ancient religions found in the region all just "Hinduism"? Or are they truly scriptural?
5. Are Hindu scripture the oldest found? What are the paleographic/manuscript evidences for the position?
6. As a religion is Hinduism the most diverse and extensive in terms of philosophical wealth?

Why are the Hindu's steady in their faith? Why are their numbers globally so stable and secure, in history, current world and estimated future values? What is Hinduism? Why Hinduism?
1. If there is a religion then behind it is a philosophy also. The difference is that Hinduism has allowed many philosophies within itself.
2. There is no 'ism' that is not available within Hinduism. I have checked all mentioned in Wikipedia. There are polytheists, pantheists, panentheists, henotheists, monotheists, monists, kathenotheists, animists, shamanists and atheists in Hinduism.
3. The general view is that at lower level of thinking, there sure is good and bad, but as one goes forward, understands better, views change.
4. I would make no claim. Perhaps, the people of Indus valley civilization also worshiped the same deities (5,000 ya), the idols, seals are similar to what we find today in Hinduism. On the other hand the Vedic religion which merged into Hinduism also is very old going back to Pontic steppes and 5,000 years or more. So, 5,000 years seems justified. Yeah, if there were separate religions in pre-history in various regions of India, they all merged together. Deities and scriptures are a small part of Hinduism. Hinduism's base is humane behavior (Dharma), whatever sects it be. Dharma is the least common factor (LCF) of all beliefs in Hinduism.
5. Well, you have RigVeda which I date prior to 5,000 years. The evidence is succession of astronomical occurrences. The beginning of the year at one time was in the asterism of Orion, then successively in Pleiades, Arietis and now in Pisces. Each change marks 2,000 years due to precession of equinox. Hindus pushed back the beginning of the year by three months over 6,000 years. Each step-back is very clearly mentioned in the scriptures.
6. A religion which has all those 'isms' mentioned above, certainly qualifies for being the most diverse (in itself) religion.

People are steady in Hinduism because Hinduism does not box them, it gives them freedom. I am a very strong atheist, but I am perfectly at home in Hinduism. Even the latest in science (Quantum Mechanics, Big Bang, Evolution, Abiogenesis) is perfectly OK with Hinduism, because differences are heartily accepted in Hinduism. I have the same respect for different views in Hinduism as I have for my own views. We are not worried about number and are happy with what we have. Hinduism will go into future with the same nonchalance.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
There are plenty of pluralists and dualists in Hinduism as well. The more common version of Saiva Siddhanta than the one I follow is pluralist, for example ... 3 eternal realities, not one. That's why I often say i follow monistic Saiva Siddhanta ... to separate it from the other school.

Yep, all that too. :) I don't know if there's anyone alive, or from the past, that would be able to definitively lay it all out, list and describe it all. That's probably what confuses the heck out of people... including Hindus. And then we have tantra, which I don't know if anyone knows what it is (I sure don't). :D
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Is it contradiction or contradistinction? Is it one God who emphasises himself to what ever light that reflects on things so all the Gods, the universe, everything is the emphasis that one God makes upon himself?

Or is it actually contradictory?

e.g. The three are Agni who burns up the vegetation, the all-seeing Sum and the invisible Vayu or Wind. Three kept in close concealment cause no motion ; of speech, men speak only the fourth division. They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman. To what is One, sages give many a title : they*call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.

That famous passage is of course from the Rig Vedh. Now that clearly states that there is one, though there are many names. Are Krishna, Vishnu avatara's? If they are avataras isnt it one God?

Thanks for the list of Hindu scripture btw.

It's actually contradictory. But Hindus rarely see that as a problem, because one very common facet to us is tolerance and acceptance of the right to other views ... differing views, as we have no psychological need for right and wrong. So the dualistic Vaishnava who claims Krishna is Godhead has no problem with the monistic Shaiva who says Shiva is God.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Hinduism isn't monotheistic, rather, it's monistic. There is only one thing, Brahman. Anything and everything we see is a manifestation, emanation, reflection, of Brahman. Even what we think of as "God". Sarvam khalvidam brahma "all this verily is Brahman", from the Chandogya Upanishad. Scriptures are actually ambiguous, or rather, can be interpreted in a variety of ways vis-á-vis theology.

Keep in mind Hindu scriptures are not commandments, there are no commandments (well, there's the Manusmriti, but no one pays attention to that anymore :D), the scriptures are in no way comparable to Abrahamic scriptures. Hindu scriptures are largely hymns and poetry dedicated to the gods; philosophical treatises; musings; explanations; scientific, artistic and even medical treatises.

Depending on the person, Hinduism for them can be either monotheistic or polytheistic. Actually Hindu monotheism is more like henotheism: belief or dedication to one God, but accepting the existence of other gods and their reverence. Someone told me my beliefs are "theologically monist, and ritually polytheistic", for example. But I'm probably more henotheist because the focus of my worship is Krishna, but I do not exclude other deities either at home or in temple.

Hmm i understand what you are saying.

But if you are worshiping Krishna, is Krishna an avatara? Thus though in worship you are practicing Henotheism "IF" Krishnna is an Avatara does it ultimately make it monotheism? Or rather as you put it "monism"?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The three are Agni who burns up the vegetation, the all-seeing Sum and the invisible Vayu or Wind. Three kept in close concealment cause no motion ; of speech, men speak only the fourth division. They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman. To what is One, sages give many a title : they*call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.
:D So, that is one view, but that is not the sole view.
In my view, there are no Gods or Goddesses, in the view of the rest of my family, there are at least 50 Gods and Goddesses.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Is it contradiction or contradistinction? Is it one God who emphasises himself to what ever light that reflects on things so all the Gods, the universe, everything is the emphasis that one God makes upon himself?

Or is it actually contradictory?

e.g. The three are Agni who burns up the vegetation, the all-seeing Sum and the invisible Vayu or Wind. Three kept in close concealment cause no motion ; of speech, men speak only the fourth division. They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman. To what is One, sages give many a title : they*call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.

That famous passage is of course from the Rig Vedh. Now that clearly states that there is one, though there are many names. Are Krishna, Vishnu avatara's? If they are avataras isnt it one God?

Thanks for the list of Hindu scripture btw.

There's a saying in the Awadhi language that loosely translates as "everyone sees God in their own way", i.e. "God shows himself in a way meaningful to the believer". So for one person the Ultimate Reality, Brahman, manifests as Shiva, for another it's Vishnu or one of his incarnations/avatars. For a Vaishnava, Bhagavad Gita ch. 10 describes all diversity in one. Chapter 10 – Bhagavad Gita, The Song of God – Swami Mukundananda
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmm i understand what you are saying.

But if you are worshiping Krishna, is Krishna an avatara? Thus though in worship you are practicing Henotheism "IF" Krishnna is an Avatara does it ultimately make it monotheism? Or rather as you put it "monism"?

The avatar concept is uniquely Vaishnava. I personally don't like the word avatar, I prefer "form" or "appearance". Shiva and Devi also take different "forms", but in those traditions, they're not called avatars.

It's not monotheism because Krishna is not the only form of God I worship. Monotheism says there is one and only one God in one and only one form. I also pray to God in his Shiva form; in his/her Lakshmi form; in his/her Hanuman form, etc. depending on what I'm praying for or whom I'm worshiping. As humans we take different forms and appearances too, and can be approached in those forms or capacities.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But if you are worshiping Krishna, is Krishna an avatara? Thus though in worship you are practicing Henotheism "IF" Krishna is an Avatara does it ultimately make it monotheism? Or rather as you put it "monism"?
Sure. A Vaishnava will worship Vishnu, Rama or Krishna, the last two as the avataras of the first or any one of them as his\her personal deity. But that is that persons view. The other person may be worshiping the Mother Goddess or Shiva or all of them or any other God or Goddess as his\her personal deity. Vinayaka's personal deity is Kartikeya\Murugan, one of the sons of Shiva, the other being Ganesha. We don't see any problem in that.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What about what the scripture says? Doesnt it matter at all in Hinduism? Is it only sociology that impacts the philosophy? e.g. what does the scripture say about the theism of HInduism? Is it mono or poly?
When one is coming from the Abrahamic religions and then trying to understand the eastern religions, things tend to get very complicated and confusing, as found out myself decades ago.

Your above question has already been answered, but also let me just throw in the fact that in the past there was/were also non-theistic Hindu sect(s). I don't know much about it but have to wonder whether it parallels Buddhism, which is non-theistic (no creator-god).
 
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