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Why Hell Has Flames

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Samantha Rinne, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    So, alot of people expect Heaven to look like white fluffy clouds, togas on everyone, and people playing harps all day.

    Likewise, Hell is depicted as some burning place. Often with demons using pitchforks. But why pitchforks? Why fire?

    Well... the backstory has to do with the prohibition against human sacrifice (especially child sacrifice). Outside of Judaism, many were followers to Baal or Molech, who demanded infants be burned, especially using a patented cowman shaped stove. The stove had hands, you see, so as it heated up then baby could be placed on these not scalding hot hands and instantly get incinerated. No mess, no fuss. Have an unwanted baby as a result of the last fertility ritual? You too can be rid of it. Yours for only 19.95.

    Yeah, basically that was it. These bodies got burned up and tossed into the same pile as a pile of human excrement outside the place. It was basically a huge steaming compost pile. The pitchforks are not to poke people, but to turn human bodies like compost. It's to show what it's like to be outside the town, outside Israel. This place was called Gehenna. The word Hell (Norse) or Hades (Greek) were more synonymous with Sheol, a more generic afterlife.

    That is to say, to the Jewish and early Christian mindset, this sort of place makes a large amount of sense. But to us, 2000 years later? I'm not sure that I'm even afraid of fire. So removing all these trappings (including tbh the word Hell), what would it look like to you? Would it still have flames? Or would you imagine a DMV or something instead?
     
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  2. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I've long felt death by fire to likely be one of the worst ways to go. I'm not entirely sure there is much more to it than that. Your outlandish theories certainly don't give me even a simple pause to consider their validity.

    And pitchforks? If I had to guess, I would think it has to do with their length and similarity to a staff or scepter, a sign of rule over your realm - except with a deadly implement on the end - something that can cause pain. There aren't many other things that fit that bill. A shovel? Too utilitarian, dangerous only as a blunt instrument. A spear might have worked, but in a simpler time, a spear was more a symbol of providence or sustenance - a tool to be used for survival, and therefore a more noble, or accepted thing. The multiple points of a trident could also be tied to other things symbolically - and I believe that is also a main selling-point. Tales of Hell are all just stories after all.
     
  3. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Why imagine anything at all? If the concept is so flawed, why not just do away with it completely?
     
  4. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't know about you, but fire scares the heck out of me. But then, I've been burned. Nowhere near as badly as some others, but enough to know that there are very few 'pains' that are worse. So if you aren't afraid of fire, I imagine that you haven't ever had so much as a bad sunburn, let alone any sort of serious burn.

    However, since nobody really understands what heaven and hell really is, I think that people invented the very best..and very worst..physical feelings possible. For ancient shepherds, heaven would be lovely days, fluffy clouds and singing; it was their best times.

    ............as experiencing fire and burning would be the absolute worst.

    As for me, I happen to LIKE singing in a choir, so heaven without that would be problematic. However, heaven with ONLY that wouldn't be heaven. My idea of heaven would be an eternally open library and access to everything. Forever university.

    My idea of hell would be total and complete denial of the ability to learn anything, of music....sheerest boredom. The absence of God, of love, of others.


    But then, we all, even atheists, have figured out what our personal heaven/hell would be, if there was either one
     
  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    And here I was thinking that flames are just plain cool.

    Pictures/vids worth a thousand words......





     
  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    The vision of hell imagined by christians is directly derived from a comedy poem by Dante Alighieri and the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch.
     
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  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    And a few biblical references:
    BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAKE OF FIRE

    And I'm assuming Heaven looks much like an illustration From The Watchtower. :rolleyes:
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    A lake is not the whole thing... Is it?

    Wonder how the watchtower got the pics???
     
  9. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    They've got some great -- and very imaginative -- illustrators. Not as great as ISKCON or the LDS, but pretty good, IMHO.
     
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  10. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    The sun was considered to be Father God. And the Earth was mother Earth. Heaven with God was up in the clouds. Hell was beneath the Earth where lava came from.
     
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Not just the fire but every other kind of implement used by cruel people later. One way to punish is by deep frying in oil or pouring boiling oil on the head till the brains melt - as mentioned in Holy Quran.
     
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  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Having had a NDE at 21, I got to see the Underworld; which is a dark shadowy murky place in many religions, including where we get the word Hel from.

    Below Hades is Tartarus where angels, and Chronos (the Lord of Time was Imprisoned); thus it is said to be on fire, I've not seen that, yet can understand below earth, we have Lava.

    Hell/Hades is a place of string theory quantum physics, where everything is very compressed together, and no one has much control over their surroundings, so it is very frustrating.

    You're right about Gehenna, the problem is Yeshua uses both words independently, and implies that the Lake of Fire or Judgement Day Fire comes here, where there shall be a Baptism of Fire on the whole earth.

    Yeshua said here is the top floor of Hell in Judaism (Gehenna - Matthew 23:15), and people will be cast out from this reality at Judgement Day Fire.

    Thus this world currently looks like Hell to me, people working as slaves, with slave owners who pull the noose tighter, the more they struggle to be free.

    A world where people are told to drink coffee, alcohol, have fluoride put in their water to dumb them down, and things that make them smarter, they're told are scary stuff that should scare them, and they believe it, as they're not smart enough to know it is all an illusion (Maya).
    The Holy Quantum Flames are prophesied to be coming here in many religions globally to remove the demonic behaviours in a Day, as the Final Battle takes place - also known as Judgement Day Fire, Samvartaka, Frashokereti, etc.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    The four elements of ancient times were earth, wind, fire and water. Each was a projection and/or symbolized the four psychological functions of the human mind. These functions are how humans orientate themselves to reality. Fire is connected to our emotions, earth is connected to natural instinct, water is connected to intellect and air is connected to intuition.

    Hell's fire is symbolically connected to negative emotions. If you are prejudice there will strong feelings of hate that clouds your mind and judgement. We also have crimes of passion driven by strong emotions.

    It is no coincidence that the American Left, which is bases itself on emotional judgements, has more propensity to break the law; sanctuary cities and criminal rights. With emotions, the ends can justify the means since emotions are not rational, while anything can feel right. The actions of the criminal feels right to them, apart from law and reason.

    Heaven is portrayed as soft clouds, with clouds a mixture of water and air. Heaven is also associated with paradise before the fall. Water symbolizes intellect, which allows one to reason reality as is; inference and deductions, instead of assume reality is defined by the valence of our emotions; hate and desire.

    Air, as intuition, is a creative addendum to reason, which anticipates before reason builds the road. The water and air working together is very creative and is a more advance human, who goes to a different place. Paradise would be associated with earth or instinct. This is where nature lives in harmony driven by integrating instincts.

    In Christianity, the four functions, as symbolized by the cross, reduce to a trinity; heaven (earth, wind and water), with the fourth aspect of the cross; fire, isolated to Hell.
     
  14. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    When the brain forms memories, emotional tags are added to sensory content as memory is written to the cerebral matter. Our strongest memories usually have the strongest emotional valence or tags attached; marriage, birth of a child, trauma, glory days, etc., due to this natural tagging process.

    This natural writing process of content plus feeling tagging is useful to the animal, since similar experiences can trigger previous memory and the original tagged feeling.This allows the animal to act on the feeling without having to think or reinvent the wheel. If the animal stumbled upon a similar food item and it creates a good feeling, from previous memory tagging, they will eat. They do not to have to circle and try to figure out if they should eat or not. The will act upon the feeling.

    A problem was created in the emotional tagging process, for humans, symbolized by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of law. Law teaches us the good and evil paths in terms of various social behavior. Law can be subjective or objective.

    The problem is a law is like a two sided coin, where one thing; a law, creates two conflicting emotional tags. If you obey any given law, the tagging will be positive; social acceptance. However, if you violate the same law the tag will be negative; fear and pain. Unlike the animal who can act on a single feeling, law due to the polarized tagging process, will create mixed and conflicting feelings, that can put one in a state of suspension. This is Christ hanging on the cross, in suspension, between the two thieves. The law may not seem quire right yet you do not wish to be singled out.

    The conflicting emotional tagging of law, can have an impact on all the four natural functions, creating conflict even in natural emotions of love. As an example, marijuana used to be taboo in most places, with harsh penalties of prison for violation. Based on modern understanding, this harshness of penalty is no longer the case, and marijuana is now is legal in many places.

    If we go backwards in time, when marijuana was illegal and the penalty was harsh, reason and common sense, even if sound, if it did not go along with the program, was taboo. In other words, even if your logic was ahead of its time and sound; since it went against the social gain, it would make you suspect, The law could make the herd override even reason that would prove to be sound and valid in the future. It was allows valid but cloudy by emotions in the beginning.

    To avoid a social backlash, in harsher times, one needed to remain suspended on the cross. The four psychological functions needed to be stalled, unable to socially act in a natural way, because of the law and the conflicting emotions of herd instinct. Culture outgrew this particular law,,but so much damage was done in the name of the law; emotional thinking and fires of hell.

    The two thieves stem from the law and the taboo that the law creates. It is tough to live in state of conflicting feelings, unable to easily come or go. The unconscious mind helps this waste of mental energy by making the dark side of law, unconscious. We see ourselves as lawful and righteous. The dark side of law is often projected onto others; sinners are over there.

    However, both side sides of the law are still active, since law is like coin with two sides, with the dark side repressed and unconscious, but still active issued each person. This can create unconscious impulses in some. Others will sense these impulse and try to maintain the tension of opposites, so they can analyze it away, with common sense; intuition and reason. Both are treated harshly by the law, simply by going the wrong way with the herd. The herd accepts the feelings of self righteousness the most; one sided team player.

    One thief on one side of the cross is the violator. He is compulsive, due to the repression causing unconscious emotional compulsion. The other has inner conflict, due to their common sense and reason. The second thief remains reasonable to the harshness of the law in terms of justice; Jesus was being railroaded. However, he accepts his own fate, due to the needs of group think, or rather the needs of group herd feelings.

    The fires of hell is connected to law and the conflicting feelings it creates in memory, which can induce compulsion and override common sense, instinct and reason, due to sell righteous group feel. All sorts of evil, in the name of good, can appear due to repression and projection; feelings of hell are induced by the law so we burn the witches.The tree of knowledge was the tree of Satan, which is why hell fire and Satan=Devil=Hell are connected.

    Jesus did away with the law by symbolically nailing law to the cross. Law was judged by law. Jesus places law in the center of the emotional conflict and the tension of opposites created in the four natural functions. As history would show law remains even until today. The Church responses with the trinity of reason, intuition and instinct being separated, from feelings, since feelings or emotions continue to be conflicted, due to the unconscious background created by law. This is assigned to hell; fires of hell.
     
    #14 wellwisher, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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