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Why has "Heathen" become such an ugly word?

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?
Well, it isn't associated with those things to me.
Perhaps you're hanging out with the wrong crowd? We didn't just meet.
Tom
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Yes I know...the Bible implies that heathans are Idolators but I'm not sure why so much ugly reputation is attached to polytheistic faiths.

Kinda gross if you ask me
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?
Christians who demonized everything that wasn't them, up to an including putting horns of Vikings even though that simply never happened. But, gotta make those heathens look more like the devil, because apparently widespread looting, pillaging, plundering, murdering, and raping wasn't bad enough.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Well, it isn't associated with those things to me.
Perhaps you're hanging out with the wrong crowd? We didn't just meet.
Tom
Not sure what crowd you hang out with but heathen has always been an ugly word as a general rule in my experience
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Well, it isn't associated with those things to me.
Perhaps you're hanging out with the wrong crowd? We didn't just meet.
Tom
If my understanding is correct (I haven't actually researched it as a point but come across in researching other things) heathen as a bad word is rooted in history as Europe was becoming Christianized.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I've even heard abortion and gay acts described as "heathen" practices and liberals are "heathens" and our culture is "heathen culture of death" lol
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?

In my experience, a heathen is one that has not been converted to the worship of or does not worship the God of Abraham.

While I'm confident that those that follow Abrahamic faiths have used the term as a pejorative, I've never heard the qualities above associated with heathenry.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
It's a Christian way of looking down on those who aren't Christian, but like "pagan," it's a term that's been adopted and reclaimed by folks who practice either reconstructed folk religions or modern Earth-based or New Age faiths as a source of pride.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes I know...the Bible implies that heathans are Idolators but I'm not sure why so much ugly reputation is attached to polytheistic faiths.

Kinda gross if you ask me

Christianity will dis anything they dont want to understand.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?
Because heathens were that way back in the day. They were drunken, depraved people who were spiritually dark. They did human sacrifices, sexual slavery etc. all common enough. Thought it was best to be a warrior and die fighting for pride, loot etc. Christianity made people better compared to what they were in Europe.

 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Because heathens were that way back in the day. They were drunken, depraved people who were spiritually dark. They did human sacrifices, sexual slavery etc. all common enough. Thought it was best to be a warrior and die fighting for pride, loot etc. Christianity made people better compared to what they were in Europe.

Well, I really think they were all kind of in the same bin. I don't know what history books you've read, but I actually did read the ecclesiastical history of the english people by bede. And in that book, forces (are they heathen or christian?) invading the isle of wight seem to ritually sacrifice a pagan king's sons after baptizing them, (book IV chapter XVI) a woman is grateful that a tumor is absolving her sin where she used to wear jewlery, (b. IV c XIX) and in various places he discusses the lifestyle of anchorites, a lifestyle which many modern people might deem as being psychologically brutal. I wonder at a story he gives about St. Cuthbert living in a 'narrow dwelling' alone on an island for many years, wherein he mentions several times something about a vague mound that grows around him over the course of that time. A mound of what?

But for comparison to the Ibn Fadlan story, read this christian passage about queen Ethelthryth from book IV chapter XIX:

"It is said that when she was sore troubled with the aforesaid tumour and pain in her jaw and neck, she took great pleasure in that sort of sickness, and was wont to say, "I know of a surety that I deservedly bear the weight of my trouble on my neck, for I remember that, when I was a young maiden, I bore on it the needless weight of necklaces; and therefore I believe the Divine goodness would have me endure the pain in my neck, that so I may be absolved from the guilt of my needless levity, having now, instead of gold and pearls, the fiery heat of a tumour rising on my neck."

That's just as spiritually austere as the viking funeral, surely. In both cases, the religions apparently argue that human death is going toward atonement. Arguably, the christian women might suffer more as the tumor chokes her off. In both cases however, we might argue for a mindset typical of the dark ages, save only that christianity was allowed to evolve with history and perhaps eventually allow you to make moral claims with it as a totem
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I've even heard abortion and gay acts described as "heathen" practices and liberals are "heathens" and our culture is "heathen culture of death" lol
That's just using the word as a synonym of "foreign" or "other."

Heathen holds no negative connotations for me. It's a humorous word; an amusing, often silly comeback from a religious or cultural defender who can't think of a better rejoinder.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
They did human sacrifices, sexual slavery etc. all common enough. Thought it was best to be a warrior and die fighting for pride, loot etc. Christianity made people better compared to what they were in Europe.
Christianity didn't do away with that. Fighting and dying for Christ being glorious and desirable enough to have you absolved of your sins, slavery did end for several centuries later, all Christianity really did was idolize and promote suffering, make private affairs the business of the church, and horribly repress women. My pagan and heathen ancestors, for example, had female priests and warriors. Christianity is still struggling with the idea of women not having to be inherently submissive to men.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?

As it is an umbrella term which has expanded to include many things you have listed. and not listed, over centuries based on various Christian experiences and perceptions of non-Christians. It is an "out-group" or "other" term by the definition you provided as a form of religious character assassination.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Why is the word heathen associated with laziness, filthiness, Demons, lack of self-discipline, human sacrifice, lack of virtue, immoral Passions, sexual depravity, drunkeness, and other forms of immorality, immaturity, and irresponsible living?

Maybe it is because they don’t have God’s law, and don’t live according to it.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Well, I really think they were all kind of in the same bin. I don't know what history books you've read, but I actually did read the ecclesiastical history of the english people by bede. And in that book, forces (are they heathen or christian?) invading the isle of wight seem to ritually sacrifice a pagan king's sons after baptizing them, (book IV chapter XVI) a woman is grateful that a tumor is absolving her sin where she used to wear jewlery, (b. IV c XIX) and in various places he discusses the lifestyle of anchorites, a lifestyle which many modern people might deem as being psychologically brutal. I wonder at a story he gives about St. Cuthbert living in a 'narrow dwelling' alone on an island for many years, wherein he mentions several times something about a vague mound that grows around him over the course of that time. A mound of what?

But for comparison to the Ibn Fadlan story, read this christian passage about queen Ethelthryth from book IV chapter XIX:

"It is said that when she was sore troubled with the aforesaid tumour and pain in her jaw and neck, she took great pleasure in that sort of sickness, and was wont to say, "I know of a surety that I deservedly bear the weight of my trouble on my neck, for I remember that, when I was a young maiden, I bore on it the needless weight of necklaces; and therefore I believe the Divine goodness would have me endure the pain in my neck, that so I may be absolved from the guilt of my needless levity, having now, instead of gold and pearls, the fiery heat of a tumour rising on my neck."

That's just as spiritually austere as the viking funeral, surely. In both cases, the religions apparently argue that human death is going toward atonement. Arguably, the christian women might suffer more as the tumor chokes her off. In both cases however, we might argue for a mindset typical of the dark ages, save only that christianity was allowed to evolve with history and perhaps eventually allow you to make moral claims with it as a totem
I enjoy medieval history. I don't think I've read that one. But the time period interests me. I've "read" Life of King Alfred(more like listened to it) ...

I'm not implying things were great after Christianity. Just that things improved over time.

As for tumors. You can't blame tumors on Christianity can you? People get tumors with or without religions. If the tumor chokes her then it probably would have anyway; if she was Christian or not. Her faith helped her deal with and lessened the suffering she endured because she thought it was for good reason. I don't believe she's right; but it helped her deal with it anyway. Unless you're implying there was some way she could get rid of the tumor if she wanted to. But I don't know about that. Because surgery was risky business back then. I believe she would have rid herself of it if she could.

I don't think the viking funeral was about atonement. The woman likely chose to die because it was her ticket to Valhalla. Women weren't usually going to Valhalla. But if she could accompany this famous warrior she could get in.
 
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