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Why God appears to be a bad guy.

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The chances of any of the Angels including Iblis disobeying him, were so low.
The chances of Adam who is one of God's elite chosen, to look towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, was so low.
The chances that Successors of Adam, be not followed by humanity, and instead loud mouth leaders and idols instead, were so low leading to Nuh, it was all so low.

Thousand of years of preaching by Nuh, the chances were supposed to be they heed his calls.

After that, chances of guidance were inverted. Due to diseases of example of disobedience and the "well a lot did it, so what's the big deal" and uninspiring nature of human majority, it became the opposite.

Now guidance which is so dear to God, became, something that was improbable for most. Generation to generation, he tries to fix it with his revelations and Messengers, but there is no cure for the disease.

Because people assume God knows the future, it looks bad. Because assume this is the way he intended them to be it looks bad.

Because people assume God's powers can make him do impossible like make square triangles, but it's how God expresses for example regarding the misguidance of Muslims (not limited to them) "how can God guide a people who disbelieve after they witnessed the Messenger is truth..."

He through his Messengers (Ali (a) to Hassan Al-Askari (a)) tried to annul the sorcery from sorcerers and Iblis forces, but people despite the emphasis to hold to God's chosen, guidance, and rope in the Quran, stick to people who are not appointed by God. Despite Rasool (s) words to hold on to Quran and family together, there's been a war to separate Quran from his family and his family from Quran while Quran unites them and calls them the "family of the reminder".

God is trying to save us from his wrath. He wants humans to mostly enter paradise and so has prolonged the life of the Twelfth Successor, but now the time, without miracles, is making it almost impossible to save them.

It seems the warnings are becoming unavoidable, and the warning to the Mahdi is meant to be avoided, and that we will be destroyed (except few believers as was in the past).

He doesn't want to bring the Mahdi and the world is in it's arrogant and heedless state, so that they look towards misguiding loud mouths and they like those in the past, accuse him of being a sorcerer when he performs miracles.

The entertainment business (just for entertainment we believe) always shows the top powerful person to be evil and show incredible powers like reviving dead and other things are not a display of power of God. This is from shows, to movies, to games. It doesn't matter. We been incepted.

The Quran which warns about the Mahdi more then the day of judgment is veiled with occult darkness and sorcery so that people are oblivious to the Mahdi in the Quran.

Ya Ali help.
 
Last edited:

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As I read about your version of god, he strikes me as being: insecure, egotistical, cruel, unjust, unethical, vengeful, and incoherent.

No thanks!

I think you tell yourself that so you don't have to worry about hell. It's a coping mechanism.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The chances of any of the Angels including Iblis disobeying him, were so low.
The chances of Adam who is one of God's elite chosen, to look towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, was so low.
The chances that Successors of Adam, be not followed by humanity, and instead loud mouth leaders and idols instead, were so low leading to Nuh, it was all so low.

Thousand of years of preaching by Nuh, the chances were supposed to be they heed his calls.

After that, chances of guidance were inverted. Due to diseases of example of disobedience and the "well a lot did it, so what's the big deal" and uninspiring nature of human majority, it became the opposite.

Now guidance which is so dear to God, became, something that was improbable for most. Generation to generation, he tries to fix it with his revelations and Messengers, but there is no cure for the disease.

Because people assume God knows the future, it looks bad. Because assume this is the way he intended them to be it looks bad.

Because people assume God's powers can make him do impossible like make square triangles, but it's how God expresses for example regarding the misguidance of Muslims (not limited to them) "how can God guide a people who disbelieve after they witnessed the Messenger is truth..."

He through his Messengers (Ali (a) to Hassan Al-Askari (a)) tried to annul the sorcery from sorcerers and Iblis forces, but people despite the emphasis to hold to God's chosen, guidance, and rope in the Quran, stick to people who are not appointed by God. Despite Rasool (s) words to hold on to Quran and family together, there's been a war to separate Quran from his family and his family from Quran while Quran unites them and calls them the "family of the reminder".

God is trying to save us from his wrath. He wants humans to mostly enter paradise and so has prolonged the life of the Twelfth Successor, but now the time, without miracles, is making it almost impossible to save them.

It seems the warnings are becoming unavoidable, and the warning to the Mahdi is meant to be avoided, and that we will be destroyed (except few believers as was in the past).

He doesn't want to bring the Mahdi and the world is in it's arrogant and heedless state, so that they look towards misguiding loud mouths and they like those in the past, accuse him of being a sorcerer when he performs miracles.

The entertainment business (just for entertainment we believe) always shows the top powerful person to be evil and show incredible powers like reviving dead and other things are not a display of power of God. This is from shows, to movies, to games. It doesn't matter. We been incepted.

The Quran which warns about the Mahdi more then the day of judgment is veiled with occult darkness and sorcery so that people are oblivious to the Mahdi in the Quran.

Ya Ali help.
So you do think that God appears to be a bad guy.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Quran which warns about the Mahdi more then the day of judgment is veiled with occult darkness and sorcery so that people are oblivious to the Mahdi in the Quran.

History has shown us why God appears as a 'Bad Guy', even to those that say they think highly of God.

God sends His Messengers and those that say they love God, reject the Messenger as a 'Bad Guy' and yes even remain oblivious to the Mahdi of the Quran.

Regards Tony
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
As I read about your version of god, he strikes me as being: insecure, egotistical, cruel, unjust, unethical, vengeful, and incoherent.

No thanks!

I usually describe the Abrahamic God as sadistic, psychopathic, barbaric, and bloodthirsty. But your description of this God is good too.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
The chances of any of the Angels including Iblis disobeying him, were so low.
The chances of Adam who is one of God's elite chosen, to look towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, was so low.
The chances that Successors of Adam, be not followed by humanity, and instead loud mouth leaders and idols instead, were so low leading to Nuh, it was all so low.

Thousand of years of preaching by Nuh, the chances were supposed to be they heed his calls.

After that, chances of guidance were inverted. Due to diseases of example of disobedience and the "well a lot did it, so what's the big deal" and uninspiring nature of human majority, it became the opposite.

Now guidance which is so dear to God, became, something that was improbable for most. Generation to generation, he tries to fix it with his revelations and Messengers, but there is no cure for the disease.

Because people assume God knows the future, it looks bad. Because assume this is the way he intended them to be it looks bad.

Because people assume God's powers can make him do impossible like make square triangles, but it's how God expresses for example regarding the misguidance of Muslims (not limited to them) "how can God guide a people who disbelieve after they witnessed the Messenger is truth..."

He through his Messengers (Ali (a) to Hassan Al-Askari (a)) tried to annul the sorcery from sorcerers and Iblis forces, but people despite the emphasis to hold to God's chosen, guidance, and rope in the Quran, stick to people who are not appointed by God. Despite Rasool (s) words to hold on to Quran and family together, there's been a war to separate Quran from his family and his family from Quran while Quran unites them and calls them the "family of the reminder".

God is trying to save us from his wrath. He wants humans to mostly enter paradise and so has prolonged the life of the Twelfth Successor, but now the time, without miracles, is making it almost impossible to save them.

It seems the warnings are becoming unavoidable, and the warning to the Mahdi is meant to be avoided, and that we will be destroyed (except few believers as was in the past).

He doesn't want to bring the Mahdi and the world is in it's arrogant and heedless state, so that they look towards misguiding loud mouths and they like those in the past, accuse him of being a sorcerer when he performs miracles.

The entertainment business (just for entertainment we believe) always shows the top powerful person to be evil and show incredible powers like reviving dead and other things are not a display of power of God. This is from shows, to movies, to games. It doesn't matter. We been incepted.

The Quran which warns about the Mahdi more then the day of judgment is veiled with occult darkness and sorcery so that people are oblivious to the Mahdi in the Quran.

Ya Ali help.

The chances of any of the Angels including Iblis disobeying him, were so low.
The chances of Adam who is one of God's elite chosen, to look towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, was so low.
The chances that Successors of Adam, be not followed by humanity, and instead loud mouth leaders and idols instead, were so low leading to Nuh, it was all so low.


It sounds like your god did a horrible job of planning for the unexpected. He apparently foolishly assumed that just because there's a low probability of something happening that it's impossible, that or he woefully underestimated the probability of these things occurring in the first place.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I think you tell yourself that so you don't have to worry about hell. It's a coping mechanism.

Well the very idea of hell I think strengthens my case. Because here we have a god who creates creatures who he can convict of thought crimes and then torture for eternity. Did I miss anything here?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well the very idea of hell I think strengthens my case. Because here we have a god who creates creatures who he can convict of thought crimes and then torture for eternity. Did I miss anything here?

You can phrase it how you like, Quran phrases it how God likes. Up to people to believe who, the truth or conjecture on falsehood.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The chances of any of the Angels including Iblis disobeying him, were so low.
The chances of Adam who is one of God's elite chosen, to look towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, was so low.
The chances that Successors of Adam, be not followed by humanity, and instead loud mouth leaders and idols instead, were so low leading to Nuh, it was all so low.


It sounds like your god did a horrible job of planning for the unexpected. He apparently foolishly assumed that just because there's a low probability of something happening that it's impossible, that or he woefully underestimated the probability of these things occurring in the first place.

Actually, his back up plans are all good plans, even the last one warned about. It's just he rather it be avoided.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I usually describe the Abrahamic God as sadistic, psychopathic, barbaric, and bloodthirsty. But your description of this God is good too.

Convenient to call Justice and Righteous retribution and vengeance that but like I said it's a coping mechanism for people who don't want there to be justice.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why God appears to be a bad guy.

God appears to be very good to me. Well, if I do my best to be good, God is very good to me

I think all humans manifest truth. Atheists mainly believe on problem of evil and God's hiddenness (these two are actually related) that God doesn't exist. I think clarification for this world is needed, and to me a fallen world, where we are tested, and God is trying to save us from the evil of ourselves so that he doesn't punish us, makes sense.

Otherwise, without factoring the history and what happened to Ahlulbayt (a), why miracles are not in the open would not make sense. They make sense, because God doesn't want destroy us, and that makes us sense only because there is forever hell after.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Actually, his back up plans are all good plans, even the last one warned about. It's just he rather it be avoided.

You have a rather bizarre definition of a 'good plan'. IF the Angels including Iblis HAD obeyed him as planned, it would have been a good plan. But they didn't, so it turns out it was a bad plan. IF Adam HADN'T looked towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, as planned, it would have been a good plan. But since he did it turns out it was a bad plan.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You have a rather bizarre definition of a 'good plan'. IF the Angels including Iblis HAD obeyed him as planned, it would have been a good plan. But they didn't, so it turns out it was a bad plan. IF Adam HADN'T looked towards the everlasting tree and exalted unending authority with envy, as planned, it would have been a good plan. But since he did it turns out it was a bad plan.

The bad plans are good plans too. The original plans are obviously preferred by God and they are better or would not be original plans. He said to Adam (a) "for it is written you will not feel toil...". Adam (s) was breathed into the holy spirit and was the image of God. The chances of him failing were so so low. But God always knew, if he did, he would repent and not continue to disobey. The things is Adam (a) was foolish due to his truthful nature. But to not have trusted God and to doubt the voice of God and believe Iblis' swearing by God, all that was expected not to go that way. Because Adam (a) was much higher then that. It's for this reason he severely regretted. Adam (a) wanted to be of highest rank, he was not malicious, but still, he should've obeyed God.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
You can phrase it how you like, Quran phrases it how God likes. Up to people to believe who, the truth or conjecture on falsehood.

I'm reading from the 2nd Surah which seems clear and easy to understand. And if you recall, the Quran declares itself to be clear and easy to understand. I think if you asked people who haven't read the Quran to read just the first 30 or 40 verses of the 2nd Surah, you'd find most people will take away the same interpretations I've put in this thread.
 
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