Why evolution did not comes like this ?

[Sapiens]

Your church disagrees with you.

Not just his church ... the real world also.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I'm not "fantasizing" about choosing at all. I don't even understand what you mean by "choosing."
Please stop telling my how I don't understand and CLARIFY YOURSELF! Make me understand.

"Evolutionists" believe in evolution because science is disciplined, facts are carefully reserched and the decisions drawn from them repeatedly tested -- with rigorous discipline.
Again: If all the different life forms did not develop through evolution, how did they get here?

Is ridiculous. You can understand how choosing works, if you want to. You don't need me for that.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I am totally and completely lost in trying to decipher this thread. One is stomping his feet, making statements about "choices" and "free will" while others are insisting that they have no idea what he's talking about and that it has nothing to do with DNA.

If someone smacks me upside my head, I am going to feel pain. To feel this pain is not a choice. I feel this pain because of biological processes of nerve endings sending messages to my brain.

If I lose my footing while on a ladder, I am going to fall. I am not going to choose to fall. I will fall because there is this thing called "gravity"; a principle that greater mass attracts lesser mass; and the earth has more mass than my tiny body, so I will be pulled to that greater mass. I will fall regardless of choice.

Yes, I am well aware of philosophical, sociological and psychological debates regarding whether or not people truly have "free will". Can we simply choose a given thing? Or are we simply products of our genetics and experiences? When presented with a fork in the road, am I truly free to choose my path; or is it inevitable that one part of my brain will be dominate and I, like any other animal, will simply do that which I will do? The jury is largely still out this philosophical debate; and this debate extends to scientific fields, such as neurology.

But even if we include our genetics and environment, our experience indicates that we have free will; the power to choose; so just for sake of argument, we'll capitulate that humans have free will. As a human being with free will, I can choose to go to the store or stay home. I can choose to behave morally or immorally. I can choose which god, if any, to believe in (and I truly believe that if we want to believe something bad enough, we have the power to convince ourselves of it).

But I can not choose whether or not to feel pain. I can not choose whether or not to be drawn towards the greater mass of the earth. I can not choose whether or not there is a god. I can not choose whether or not evolution is true. And I can not choose whether or not the principles of DNA exist.

You don't understand how choosing works.

 

[corynski]

"Why did not find man in deep past , with missing parts noise,ears,tongue ,eyes , for exemple :

human with one hand , human without fingeres , birds without wings .......etc

is not this the main concept of the evolution ?"


Your question is incoherent for starters. Evolution is the result of genetic variation and environmental changes over long periods of time. I would suggest finding someone in your culture to explain it to you. If you believe the only force in the world is Allah, that could be your problem. The principal behind evolution is natural selection. For example, say a bird with a slightly wider wingspan has an edge over the others, it might fly a little faster or turn quicker, something that would give it an advantage in catching more prey, and having more children that live longer and mate more often, whatever it is, if it aids in producing more offspring with those characteristics, then it would have an edge over the others, and it's offspring display traits more advantageous for survival and mating. It is basically a mechanistic procedure. If a slight modification provides a better result, i.e. more food, more sexual activity with a wider variety of partners, faster, stronger and dominant, whatever you wish to examine, then those creatures may become more dominant, and the others would die out.

And 'free will' is not required, if such a thing even exists, in what is automatically passed on generation to generation. The present moment is a product of all the forces that existed prior to this moment, which were determined by prior evolution, not consciously, and if it is different we account for that by calling it chance, and still not under our control.

The notion that a god, Yahweh, Allah, Shiva or Ganesh or whoever, can change the order of existence is false. You would need to first prove the existence of a God, as stories that Allah does this and God does that can't exist together with evolution, I think that is a fact you'll have to face up to. I would suggest reading books by Douglas Futuyma and Ernst Mayr, two giants in the field of evolution.

 

[David M]

You all despise common discourse, yet in common discourse...

Just has to be said.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

And 'free will' is not required, if such a thing even exists,

See, evolution theory just means to throw out all knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe.

 

[Zen Sensei]

A snake is a reptile or a lizard. It evolve without arms and legs so that it can burrows around in tight mammal tunnels. This happens in humans from misapplication of science. A drug was discovered (Thalidomide) that can relieved morning sickness on pregnant women was approved for use without sufficient long term side effect of the drug for use. Obviously a failure of the regulating administration (FDA). Women using the drugs delivered babies with missing or under-develop arms or legs. It has nothing to do with evolution. Thalidomide prevent or block the normal development of fetus's extremities.

 

[stevevw]

That's a very poor understanding of evolution. You would not find a "man" lacking modern features. You would find earlier life forms that lacked the features modern men do. If want to roll it all the way back, you would find an ancient sea-sponge, which has no bones, legs, arms, nervous system, ears, hands, etc. But to say that was a "human" would be nothing but pure ignorance.

Then somehow magic mutations which are basically errors in the building process of making organisms made more complex things than what was already there.

 

[Windwalker]

Then somehow magic mutations which are basically errors in the building process of making organisms made more complex things than what was already there.

I suppose you could view the process as magical. So why not say that evolution is how God creates? What's wrong with that way of understanding evolution? That way you don't have to deny evidence at all.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

You don't understand how choosing works.

My points are quite simple: (1) I am struggling to understand why "choosing" or "choice" has anything to do whatsoever with the questions and answers regarding evolution; and (2) There are limitations to choice. I can choose to dye my hair black, but I can not choose to have black hair. Choice does not apply to certain aspects of the physical world, such as what color of hair I have (I can choose to dye my hair red, but I can not choose to have red hair); I can not choose that there is no god or that there is a god, though I may be able to choose whether or not to believe or which one to believe in; and I can not choose whether or not evolution and natural selection/genetic drift are true or not -- it either is true or is not true, regardless of what I "choose to believe". I can make a choice to believe all I want to that I am of a different ethnic background than what I am, and if I believe hard enough or lie to myself enough, I may actually convince myself this is true (a process called "sincere delusion"; where we delude ourselves into believing a certain thing and tell ourselves the same lie enough time until we sincerely believe the delusion is true); but that belief, choice or delusion does not change my ethnic background. I can not choose whether or not evolution is true or not; including all of its nuances, such as natural selection, genetic drift, DNA, ellel frequency variations, mutations, etc. Either the principles are true -- or they are not true -- and they remain either true or untrue, regardless of what I choose to believe.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

My points are quite simple: (1) I am struggling to understand why "choosing" or "choice" has anything to do whatsoever with the questions and answers regarding evolution; and (2) There are limitations to choice. I can choose to dye my hair black, but I can not choose to have black hair. Choice does not apply to certain aspects of the physical world, such as what color of hair I have (I can choose to dye my hair red, but I can not choose to have red hair); I can not choose that there is no god or that there is a god, though I may be able to choose whether or not to believe or which one to believe in; and I can not choose whether or not evolution and natural selection/genetic drift are true or not -- it either is true or is not true, regardless of what I "choose to believe". I can make a choice to believe all I want to that I am of a different ethnic background than what I am, and if I believe hard enough or lie to myself enough, I may actually convince myself this is true (a process called "sincere delusion"; where we delude ourselves into believing a certain thing and tell ourselves the same lie enough time until we sincerely believe the delusion is true); but that belief, choice or delusion does not change my ethnic background. I can not choose whether or not evolution is true or not; including all of its nuances, such as natural selection, genetic drift, DNA, ellel frequency variations, mutations, etc. Either the principles are true -- or they are not true -- and they remain either true or untrue, regardless of what I choose to believe.

You are only showing how evolition theory destroys people's knowledge about how things are chosen. And with that subjectivity is out the window too.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

You are only showing how evolition theory destroys people's knowledge about how things are chosen. And with that subjectivity is out the window too.

Are you suggesting that a "higher power", such as god or allah, "chose" which species were to continue to exist and others were not? And that the theory of evolution contradicts this somehow?

 

[Valjean]

Will you please, please explain what you mean by "choosing?" None of us have any idea what you're talking about.

A snake is a reptile or a lizard. It evolve without arms and legs so that it can burrows around in tight mammal tunnels. This happens in humans from misapplication of science. A drug was discovered (Thalidomide) that can relieved morning sickness on pregnant women was approved for use without sufficient long term side effect of the drug for use. Obviously a failure of the regulating administration (FDA). Women using the drugs delivered babies with missing or under-develop arms or legs. It has nothing to do with evolution. Thalidomide prevent or block the normal development of fetus's extremities.

Snakes used to have limbs, they lost them as they evolved. How do you not know this?

What does thalidomide have to do with evolution?

 

[Sapiens]

For those of you who have never had the privilege of dissecting a python:

Snakes still do have legs, you just can't see them and they are not much used for locomotion in any but a minor way (or for anything else, as yet).

 

[LuisDantas]

See, evolution theory just means to throw out all knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe.

Uh, no. I have no idea why you say such a thing, but that is not even remotely true.

 

[Sapiens]

These "spurs" are the remnants of the femur. Here's the actual skeleton:

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Cool stuff, Sapiens, thanx!

 

[Windwalker]

These "spurs" are the remnants of the femur. Here's the actual skeleton:

Proof God made their legs suck back into their bodies for getting Eve to eat that apple. Once again, science confirms Genesis is a book of science.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Will you please, please explain what you mean by "choosing?" None of us have any idea what you're talking about.


Snakes used to have limbs, they lost them as they evolved. How do you not know this?

What does thalidomide have to do with evolution?

Obviously no evolutionist understands about how choosing works, that ignorance is what keeps the evolution gang going.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Uh, no. I have no idea why you say such a thing, but that is not even remotely true.

We've talked before, and I know you also have no idea how choosing works.