blackout
Violet.
Yes... and also in different seasons....
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Why don't we have the same opinions?
- Thread starter Arrow
- Start date
Yes... and also in different seasons....
I think the point is, when you read a Biology textbook or car repair manual everything is succinctly and clearly explained.There is no need for interpretation. So you would expect that God would take pains to insure that a Text so much more important than an automotive handbook: a plan for the proper organization of the entire world; a text the fate of your very soul depends on, would be more scrupulously clear than any other text in the world!
Who says we have to talk about something?
blackout
Violet.
What "proper" organization of the entire world?!
It is a collective of individuals who make up the world.
I say there would be no such manual...
Because #1 I don't think life works that way...
like a manual. God is an artist.
Artists create and interpret.
We were created in God's image to create and interpret.
and #2 men in power wouldn't let
the masses have a clear manual to true freedom anyway.
It would ruin their game.
(IMHO)
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
Well the Bible is diffrent than a car repair manual, someone can memorize a car repair manual and know everything it has to say, but the same person can study the Bible for 50 years and never scratch the surface. The things in the Bible are spiritually discerned, not just memorized. Another thing is a car is pretty complicated, not many people understand exactly how every part works even if they own the book, so how much harder is it to know the mind of God?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I can tell that you haven't read the agerage car manual in quite a while! Of course, there are many of us who can repair MOST cars without ever opening the manual. Our mechanical aptitude or intuition is much faster and more precise than any manual.
But, the Scriptures were designed to apply to not just one year and model, but to ALL of them. Granted that we have only ONE maker, but the variances between all of the models are amazing. This one needs a broken heart mended. That one needs to have it's guidance system repaired. I know that my transmission is often faulty and I don't seem to do what I know I should do.
It's like going to the Doctor. Would you want a Doctor that told everyone the same thing? Head cold? Take two aspirin! Broken ankle? Take two aspirin! Arterial bleeding? Take two aspirin. The person who is haughty needs a different message than the one who has low self esteem. Yet the Scriptures can accomodate ALL of these human problems easily. That's part of the SUPERNATURAL aspesct of the Scriptures. If you are sincerely LOOKING for answers, you will find them.
Yes, we need to sacrifice a few sacred cows along the way, and stop trying to make the Scriptures say what we WANT them to say. But the trip is worth it and the prize is beyond value.
Arrow
Member
I would say that at least from my interpretation of the Bible that the leaders should not want to be controling of fellow followers of Jesus. If anything, I think they are more for encouraging us to live as Jesus lived.
Isn't there a list of ten major rules in there somewhere? Aren't there social and moral rules propounded on every other page?
If God deliberately allows ambiguity then we can't be held to account for incorrect interpretations, can we?
Here I think you have a point. It did take a long time and a lot of bloody struggle before a Bible in the vernacular was given the imprimatur.
I'm not disputing this, Sonic. I'm questioning the propriety of this.
ROFL! Too true. I've ended up scratching my head over the instructions in more than one repair manual. And I was wondring how many posts it would take before someone called me on this.:bow:
But I thought God's laws applied to all people in all times. Are there different rules for different peoples?
Yes. I'd expect a doctor to come up with the same diagnosis and treatment for the same constellation of symptoms and lab results regardless of my nationality or ethnicity.
There have been a lot of sincere seekers over the years and yet they still seem to come up with different interpretations.
I remain skeptical.
blackout
Violet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theNEWreality
and #2 men in power wouldn't let
the masses have a clear manual to true freedom anyway.
It would ruin their game.
(IMHO)
What would make you believe that world leaders are followers of Jesus?
What would make you think that church leaders do not undermine
true freedom at the hands of the "state" (501c3 tax exemption for example)
Surely the scribes and pharacees of Y'shua's day coveted their position,
and religious structure over truth and freedom. So what's new?
Most lower level church leaders I'm sure are doing what they think is right...
what they have been taught.
I in no way see the churches encouraging
emulation of the Jesus I have read about in the bible.
If everyone did as Y'shua...
the whole world system would come down.
(just what I see.)
I am fairly sure that your understanding of the practive is flawed(due to the bolded segment), however I don't want to derail the thread, so if you would like to understand better, you are more than welcome to ask either in the Catholic DIR forum: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/catholic/ or in a private message...
blackout
Violet.
Originally Posted by theNEWreality
What "proper" organization of the entire world?!
It is a collective of individuals who make up the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed!
Note that I am no longer a christian.
Just a few of the reasons why.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
OK, I had to ask my wife the Neonatal Nurse about this. Like a fingerprint, most EVERY sickness is different for every individual. That cold will affect ME differently than it affects YOU. So differently, that the same doctor might prescribe a different modality to each of us.
Take the Rich Young Man....
Matthew 9:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. NIV
Now, this verse has been used to argue that we all need to be paupers. No, this guy approached riches differently than the rest of us: they were his God. We can only have one true master, and Jesus asked him to make a choice. He made a poor choice. Now notice that Jesus didn't ask anyone else to do this: JUST THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL. Why? The heart! Now as different as well all are, the Spirit uses the Scriptures as well as other events in our lives to show us to God. MOST of us are like that poor man and we go away sad because we feel the cost is too high. But ALL of us are presented with DIFFERENT lessons or views depending on our hearts. That's what makes the Scriptures perfect for ALL people who want to get to know God.
There will continue to be a lot of SAD people. They just don't get it. My daughter resented the fact that we treated our son differently than her. He didn't have the same problems. We NEVER had to remind him about his homework or to set limits on watching TV so he would be sure to get it done. We DID have to assign him limits in other areas, but my daughter only sees what she wants to see. That's true of most of us. When we see that everyone is being treated differently or has a different opinion we get our noses bent out of shape. Silly really.
blackout
Violet.
The character of Jesus showed us...
#1 Totality of Love... and
#2 Unlimited Possibility...
IN HIS LIFE...
right here on earth.
(the Kingdom of God NOW)
Actions made in Total ACTIVE fAITH...
put forth in the TOTALITY of love =
Reality shift... God Majik...
All things possible.
There are other books that make for
MUCH better "manuals" of "paradigm shifting"
(active reality shifting- deliberate co-creatorship)
I highly recommend the Carlos Castaneda series
if you're looking for a "how to manual".
The bible surely AINT it.
The churches say "Jesus is God... you're not...
therefore you do not have the reality changing power he has".
Then they keep you in that box....
by stealing your power to co-create in Active faith.
Then if you stop listening to "church interpretation"
and you do start co-creating reality in active faith...
(ie... following Jesus)
you get labeled with some kind of derogatory "occult/witchery" term...
and thrown to the bowels of hell.
Jesus was BTW, a sorcerer.
A SOURCE erer.
He went STRAIGHT to the source for everything.
(the "source" BTW is GOD...
not the bible.)
Aside from the life of Y'shua...
the bible is WAY over-rated
(to the status of idol/God substitute)
#1 Totality of Love... and
#2 Unlimited Possibility...
IN HIS LIFE...
right here on earth.
(the Kingdom of God NOW)
Actions made in Total ACTIVE fAITH...
put forth in the TOTALITY of love =
Reality shift... God Majik...
All things possible.
There are other books that make for
MUCH better "manuals" of "paradigm shifting"
(active reality shifting- deliberate co-creatorship)
I highly recommend the Carlos Castaneda series
if you're looking for a "how to manual".
The bible surely AINT it.
The churches say "Jesus is God... you're not...
therefore you do not have the reality changing power he has".
Then they keep you in that box....
by stealing your power to co-create in Active faith.
Then if you stop listening to "church interpretation"
and you do start co-creating reality in active faith...
(ie... following Jesus)
you get labeled with some kind of derogatory "occult/witchery" term...
and thrown to the bowels of hell.
Jesus was BTW, a sorcerer.
A SOURCE erer.
He went STRAIGHT to the source for everything.
(the "source" BTW is GOD...
not the bible.)
Aside from the life of Y'shua...
the bible is WAY over-rated
(to the status of idol/God substitute)
He is the source.
I see the goal of "higher education" as enhancing one's understanding and appreciation of the world.
Education aimed at mastering a trade -- Nuclear Physics, Carpentry, Medicine, Auto Mechanics, &c is not "higher education."
Someone majoring in Medicine at Cambridge or Harvard is attending a trade school, not a University.
Education aimed at mastering a trade -- Nuclear Physics, Carpentry, Medicine, Auto Mechanics, &c is not "higher education."
Someone majoring in Medicine at Cambridge or Harvard is attending a trade school, not a University.
logician
Well-Known Member
Why is it that different people can the read the same Bible but come up with different interpretations in one area, but the same interpretation in others? If the Holy Spirit is the revealer of truth then why do two or more people come up with multiple interpretations in some areas while absolutely agreeing in other areas?
My only thought is that perhaps denominations are really just a prideful barrier of one person saying that he or she is better than another because he or she knows more than someone else. After all, it was man who created the denomination not God. I guess what I am trying to get at is...
A) How can people who seek God get different answers from seemingly the same source?
B) Why are we so prideful to say that everything we read and interpret must be fact as long as we have a group of similar thinkers behind us.
C) As fellow brothers and sisters in Christ why do we put up with it?
D) Or maybe I am wrong and there is a need for denominations
E) I would say that I was hypocritical in this thread except that I am trying really hard not to not be so pig headed. My non-denominationalism is more of I am just a follower of Christ. The things that I hold to be absolutely true are the things that pretty much every denomination agrees on.
F) I wanted to know everyone else's thoughts
Thanks,
Arrow
Good thoughts and questions. I find the answers in these two chapters:
1Co:3 and Eph:4