osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I am willing to infer that the New Testament is based off of interpretation of the OT and that the authors did not pull the idea of demons out of thin air.
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Why don't angels need salvation?
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
I am willing to infer that the New Testament is based off of interpretation of the OT and that the authors did not pull the idea of demons out of thin air.
susanblange
Active Member
Established religions over complicate these things. Angels are simply spirits in Heaven, and demons are spirits in Hell. Our fate is decided the day that we die. Cherubim are the only spiritual beings that were created in Heaven. They were created by God to keep him company but those relationships were not fulfilling so God reproduced himself and created Adam and Eve.
No, they didn't.
They just didn't understand a great deal of what was going on.
For instance, they didn't understand that infection was caused by microscopic beings. They invented demons to explain infection.
Tom
susanblange
Active Member
I take it that you don't believe in the Judgment of God. God created us because he was lonely and he created Israel for his glory. We only get one chance at Heaven per life. Angels can be reincarnated if they choose to do so. Others have been sent back. Elijah, Gabriel, Michael, David, Deborah, Adam, and Jesus have all been reincarnated.
It's your description of that which I find utterly implausible.
Why would the day of one's death be an important dividing line to our creator? It wouldn't.
But I can see why it would be important to humans who want to feed their ego.
Tom
susanblange
Active Member
Upon death, the spirit separates from the soul/body. Usually, it goes to Heaven or Hell, but sometimes it's in limbo. "Ghost" is another term for spirit. Demons are cold and angels are warm. Upon the resurrection, Heaven will be emptied of the Seraphim. Zechariah 14:5. "...and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee".
Why would I believe you?
Tom
susanblange
Active Member
Proverbs 3:5. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding". God is the creator of theology which began with Moses. God is also the end of theology to everyone who believes. He is the first and the last, Alpha and Omega.
The question was "Why would I believe you?"
Making another unsupported assertion isn't an answer to that question.
Tom
74x12
Well-Known Member
children of angels with human women according to the book of Enoch. This makes sense btw. In my opinion a fallen angel itself would be too powerful to explain all the little demon imps running around bothering people. These imps are less powerful than an actual fallen angel but still a nuisance.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
It's a sovereign choice of God. He uses what he wills for his name sake and glory.
I think
Angels are strong creatures that walk by sight.
People are weak creatures that walk by faith.
Angels do need the salvation (of people) to learn how gracious God is and the church is an object lesson for them ('things for which angels long to look' )
The redeemed from among mankind will be elevated higher than the angels.
('the saints shall judge the angels')
They never sinned, so there's nothing they need to be saved from.
Goodman John
Active Member
Good angels, bad angels... if God is nothing but Good, how did those angels become Bad? Did God give angels Free Will? And if so, why would he do that for beings supposedly intended to serve him? Why not wind up the robots and let them do their thing, never needing adjustment or correcting?
Or is there another creation-capable being/entity/god who can create bad angels?
Despite my misgivings on faith and religion in general, the idea of Dualism (Absolute or Mitigated) makes more sense than strict Monotheism.
Or is there another creation-capable being/entity/god who can create bad angels?
Despite my misgivings on faith and religion in general, the idea of Dualism (Absolute or Mitigated) makes more sense than strict Monotheism.
Goodman John
Active Member
Does this not imply that God is faulty by being lonely, and at least a little conceited for creating a nation of people just to praise him?
According to the Book of Hebrews 1:14 angels are ministering spirits sent forth to those who will inherit salvation. They are not in need of salvation, but do the gathering process of finding those who do need to be saved.
The Bible actually backs that up.
"The sons of the true God" who materialized in Noah’s day, to indulge the pleasures of the flesh, were forced back to the spirit realm by the flood, where they were placed under restraint. There is no record of them manifesting in the flesh again, whereas faithful angels continued to do so.
The war in heaven mentioned in Revelation 12:7-12
“ And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
This identifies who the demons are.....satan’s angels....the devil’s henchmen.
When Jesus confronted them to cast them out their of their victims, they knew who he was and where they would eventually end up. They were compelled to obey him. Others who cast out those evil spirits also used Jesus’ name because of his God given authority over them,
I guess because they have great power and yet only exercise it when authorised by God to do so. Power corrupts all intelligent creatures if it is not exercised under God’s control. The devil stepped out of his boundaries and instead of using his power directly, he used deception and appeals to self interest.....gaining control of humans gave him all the power he needed to become their god and ruler. Others followed satan’s lead.....so we can respect those angels who remained faithful to God.....humans too, considering who is ruling this world. (1 John 5:19)
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susanblange
Active Member
We have all sinned, including the Messiah.
Actually, I do make it up. I practice my own flavor of Judaism and most of my doctrine is original. I am a Fundamentalist and I take the scriptures at their plain, literal meaning. God started his cult with Abraham and again with Moses. Israel is his "elect".Do you make this stuff up ???
susanblange
Active Member
God is human and we were created by him in his own image and likeness. God did not like being alone. What would you do if you were God? The purpose of life is life itself. Heaven is priceless and it's also a free gift. The righteous will never die.