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Why doesn't ISIS get along with other Islamic governments?

Discussion in 'Islam DIR' started by ronki23, Jul 25, 2015.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

    Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

    And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either
     
  2. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    Useful info. Plz sift through
    isis taliban hamas buku haram salafi qutbism - Google Search
     
  3. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    ISIS follows a strict and twisted form Islamic eschatology and salafism to the point that anyone that does not follow them under the state or join them is not a Muslim. Since the groups used as examples follow their own political organization rather than the one ISIS demands they are not true Muslims under this narrow scope.
     
  4. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    But why doesn't ISIS get along with the Taliban as they too adhere to Salafism don't they?

    I saw ISIS and Al Qaeda are at odds with one another even though Al Qaeda are Qutbist. I do not know the difference between Qutbism and Salafism
     
  5. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Taliban does not acknowledge ISIS as its political leader or the "true" leaders of the Ummah. Even different forms of Salafism ISIS stills sees bid‘ah in each group. It a "my way or the highway" mentality
     
  6. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Actually many groups within the Pakistani Taliban have declared allegiance to IS.

    Al-Qaeda, on the other hand, opposes Wahhabism, but is Salafi, while IS is Wahhabist.
     
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  7. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Didn't know that. These groups are so dispersed that it is hard for me to accept that the label "Taliban" represents a larger group rather than a small independent groups with no real ties besides a label.

    Wahabism is a form of Salafism, it claim to be the true form of Salafism.
     
  8. Kirran

    Kirran
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    I think it is a much broader tent that Al-Qaeda.

    And Salafism claims to be the true form of Islam :D
     
  9. Paranoid Android

    Paranoid Android Active Member

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  10. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    But Al Qaeda (or bin Laden and Zawahiri) follow Qutbism

    I thought it was like so:

    Al Qaeda: Qutbist
    ISIS: Salafi
    Saudi Royal Family: Secular people ruling a Wahabbi country
     
  11. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    I was talking about the Taliban in that last post.

    Qutbism is still a form of Salafism. A subset ideology is the dividing line between traditionalist and peaceful groups and the violent groups.


    All 3 are follow a form of Salafism. KSA is just not as overtly violent as the other two groups.
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Hasn't Boko Haram declared their acknowledgement of ISIS' supposed Caliphate as well?
     
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  13. jeager106

    jeager106 Learning more about Jehovah.
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    Confusing ain't it?
     
  14. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Because it's often like that, look at the past :


    The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) was one of the two main Islamist insurgents groups that fought the Algerian government and army in the Algerian Civil War.
    The Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was an Islamist political party in Algeria.


    Between 1992 and 1998, the GIA conducted a violent campaign of civilian massacres, sometimes wiping out entire villages in its area of operation.

    Reports of battles between the AIS (armed branch of the FIS) and GIA increased (resulting in an estimated 60 deaths in March 1995 alone), and the GIA reiterated its death threats against FIS and AIS leaders, claiming to be the "sole prosecutor of jihad" and angered by their attempts to negotiate a settlement with the government.

    During the 1995 election, the GIA threatened to kill anyone who voted (using the slogan "one vote, one bullet"), but turnout was high among the pious middle class.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Islamic_Group_of_Algeria
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Salvation_Front

    The war has been referred to as `the dirty war’ and was notable for "unspeakable brutality"and "unbelievable savagery and violence" in attacks on civilians.

    They formed themselves into armed groups, principally the Islamic Armed Movement (MIA), based primarily in the mountains, and the more hard-line Armed Islamic Group (GIA), based primarily in the towns. The GIA motto was "no agreement, no truce, no dialogue" and declared war on the FIS in 1994 after it made progress in negotiations with the government.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_Civil_War

    Daesh (or Abu Bakar al Baghdadi) wasn't elected by anyone.
    Daesh kills muslims and non muslims in a barbaric way .
    Daesh forces people to be muslims or they are killed, exiled or slaves.
    Daesh wants to create a world caliphate.
    Daesh is against any politic movements and against monarchies.

    I think it has nothing to do with Hamas.

    As for the other groups, any of them want to loose their power/influence.
     
  15. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying they are evil so are not really bothered about those with similar views? What about the age old-motto of 'united in strength'

    and aren't good and evil merely points of view?
     
  16. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    I meant Taliban although Al Qaeda gets along quite well with them as Mullah Omar married bin Laden's daughter and he himself had one of Omar's daughters as a wife right?

    And aren't Hamas too a right-wing Islamist group? The West and Fatah supporters (obviously) are against them
     
  17. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    The Taliban aren't Salafis, they are Deobandis. The Pakistani Taliban also aren't the Taliban, they are a separate entity.

    Qutbism, if it is even a word, relates to the fusion of Islamic fundamentalism with Western totalitarian concepts and ideas borrowed from the communists and Nazis. Al-Qaeda and ISIS utilise these concepts, although Qutb wasn't a Salafi.

    The main reason that they don't all get along though is not primarily that they have religious differences, but that they have strategic differences.

    The Taliban are basically a Religious ethno-nationalist group, rather than a transnational movement. Their concern is Pashtun power in Afghanistan.

    Hamas are another nationalist group.

    Al-Qaeda were a transnational terrorist group whose ultimate goals may be loosely similar to ISIS, but they have vastly different ideas about how to go about achieving them.

    ISIS started off as a fundamentalist resistance movement, who became a de facto state with transnational aspirations. As they claim to be a caliphate, any Muslim who refuses to acknowledge Bagdhadi as rightful Caliph damages their claim to legitimacy, and can be declared kuffar. They also reject the concept of nation states/nationalism as an innovation.

    So it is really about what each group wants to achieve and/or their strategy to achieve this, rather than narrow question of religious belief.
     
  18. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Isis views other muslims to be apostates. They say anyone who is not follower of abu bakr al baghdadi is an apostate.
     
  19. Kirran

    Kirran
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    And who doesn't grow a beard!
     
  20. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    But why does ISIS have such a large following? Moreso than Al Qaeda too. Is it because Al Qaeda has been losing relevance since bin Laden was killed?

    By the way, Mullah Omar was dead for 2 years but Afghanistan failed to tell everyone this (and that he was being treated in a Karachi hospital)
     
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