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Featured Why does Jesus admonish the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:29?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    Matthew 23:29 King James Version (KJV)

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous,

    Is it wrong to honor the dead?
     
  2. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    It reads to me as though he is accusing them of killing prophets and righteous people, but why I couldn't tell you.
     
  3. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't saying that. He was pointing out that the religious leaders of His day
    (no different to those today also) gave honor to the prophets. But they were
    of the same mindset as those who killed those very prophets.
    "If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with
    them in shedding the blood of the prophets."
    Well, these same men, who built the prophets tombs, killed Jesus, John and
    many of the Apostles.
     
    #3 PruePhillip, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  4. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The final woe is the most serious indictment of all. It portrays the scribes and Pharisees as standing in the same line as their ancestors who murdered the prophets and the righteous.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    We need to read the whole thing in contexts:

    Matthew 23:27-28 is that the Pharisaic oral tradition, "the death of the righteous can atone for the sins of that generation" has been used to deem the prophets as sin sacrifices...

    In Mark 7:6-13 Yeshua states they've done away with the Torah because of these oral traditions.

    Thus they are like white washed buildings that appear clean, yet it doesn't clean the inside, and instead defiles it, by honouring murder as atonement.

    Matthew 23:29-32 states that those who condone the murdering of God's messengers, and endorse it by their declarations, prove they'd murder the prophets as well.

    Matthew 23:33-38 shows that due to Judah murdering prophets, and deeming them as an atonement, they shall be cut off; then all the world will be brought into condemnation, when they teach the Gentiles to do the same (Christianity is Pharisaic - John, Paul, Simon the stone (petros)), then Judgement will come on the whole world (wicked generation).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    They were in charge of the Temple and the moneychangers who were cheating the poor.
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    You meant 13-29?
    "you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence."
    False honoring, because they did not follow prophets themselves and did not allow others to benefit following those prophecies.
     
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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and the Carpenter said.....Let the dead bury the dead

    I get it
     
  9. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    To me the focus should be on the word "hypocrites" who do outward deeds while their hearts are full of fraud.
     
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  10. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    That is the focus, on their actions, not on what they teach.
     
  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    shall we cut that one slice deeper

    He criticized the religious leaders quite often

    their words and deeds may have appeared proper to eye and ear
    but the MOTIVATION was always shallow

    Be not like the priest that prays in public.....
    he has his reward
     
  12. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    And that is true today.
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    It is not good, if one does it with wrong motives.

    I have understood it was about hypocrisy (if you read the whole Matt. 23). They “honored” them with those works that may look nice outside, but didn’t really care what the prophets said. I think same problem is with many modern Christians, outside they may appear nice, but inside is not nice. Many of them say they believe Jesus, but don’t really care what he said.
     
  14. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    To keep it in context it is necessary to realize that Jesus was condemning their hypocracy, not their teaching.
     
  15. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Jesus clearly argued against their Sabbath rule teachings, etc.
     
    #15 Desert Snake, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  16. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Jesus is not saying it's wrong to honor the dead. What is wrong is to neglect morality, compassion and caring for the living - at the expense of the living.
     
  17. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Teachings of the Pharisees, a bit of leaven and the whole loaf, your argument is obscure

    Matthew 16:6
     
    #17 Desert Snake, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  18. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    You are getting some context mixed up. When the people would listen to the Torah, or scrolls read, that is what Jesus said to listen to.
    "Their teachings" is a different thing, and is interpretation of Scripture, or even literally "their teachings", outside of Scripture, so forth.
     
    #18 Desert Snake, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  19. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    In other words, one needs to put the verses in perspective.
     
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  20. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Because they laid a heavy burden making it impossible for the average person to comply.

    Jesus makes it quite clear;
    1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,
    2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses.
    3 Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.

    The Pharisees followed the oral tradition of the Torah, as did Jesus.
     
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