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Why does God allow tragedies?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by groovydancer88, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I agree with Retrorich... the tsunami was not created by God to contrast how great the rest of our life is. Excellence, as well as horror do not need any comparisons to understand their extremes. By their excess, they will become the standard for all else. Not the other way around.

    No, this is just the Ying to the Yang. For every benefit something has, there is usually an equally large danger associated with it. You can see that with nuclear power, fossil fuels, dynomite and even beauty. We can try to maximise the benefits, but the dangers are always there.
     
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  2. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    The above seems to suggest that it is a good thing to have tragic things occur, because that way we can better appreciate good things. I think that assertion is ridiculous.
     
  3. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    would i? Floods are disasterous things that can decimate whole cities...yet whole civilizations grew up on rivers that flooded all the time...look at the nile! They utilized what could easily be a devistating natural phenomenon and became one of the most powerful nations of the ancient world. If Tsunamis were the norm i would imagine my people would have not only learned how to deal w/ it but how to utilize it to their benefit.
    Same thing w/ the food arguement...if i had never had any other kind of food i wouldn't know it was any better than...say...jack in the box

    The problem is in this day and age we have so many different stimuli coming at us and some many experiences that we can easily say whats good and whats not...it's hard to imagine living in an isolated environment w/o all that.
     
  4. Lycan

    Lycan Preternatural

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    I personally think it depends on the god(s) or lack thereof...
    we have your garden variety "hands off" kinda god (you know the whole freewill thing, if he gave man freewill, why not nature)
    then there is the "greater good" god (everything happens for a reason, even if it involves killing thousands of innocent people)
    then we have your vengeful gods that are pissed at men (you know "smite me oh, mighty smiter)
    then we have your "I could care less what happens to those pesky humans" god ( some old pantheons contain these and above type gods) so nature is "allowed" to give us its worse.
    and last but not least you have what imho is the most logical....it is just how nature works.

    but of course, as I have said, this is just my opinion
     
  5. Lycan

    Lycan Preternatural

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    Just because you deal with something on a regular basis, be it flood or famine or whatever, doesn't mean you enjoy it or it gives you pleasure.Even if you find a way to utilize it to your benefit, I would think having to deal with it would continue to suck. I am sure you wouldn't see one coming and yell, "woohoo, my house is gonna be washed away again, but hey, I get a new sun room!"

    And back to the food thing...why would you need something to compare it to? When it goes in your mouth either it is pleasing to the palat or it is not, regardless of how many different foods you try.
     
  6. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    i'm not saying it's a good thing i'm saying if it's all you know it's the norm and you have nothing to compare it to really...you don't know a life w/o tsunamis and never knew that there ever could be...maybe you think that's the way it is everywhere...so your life is built around this event as it is a normal part of your world and you know nothing beyond that...

    But if you've had it all your life you might think that EVERYBODY has that to eat...you don't know any different...it's like eating things that people claim are an acquired taste...eventually u eat it so much it's just the norm and that's it...

    i'm basing these assumptions on a lack of outside contact or experiences...living in a bubble essentially
     
  7. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Natural disasters happin... god has little to do with the odd Tsunami. ;)

    The Earth moves, shifts and grows regardless and mindless of our presance. The reason they are called 'Natural' disasters is because they are just that Natural... not 'supernatural' disasters.
    The Tsunami was inevitable, and it will happin again... the tectonic plates of the earth are in constant motion... The eruption of Mt. St.Helens in inevitable as is the eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano, they will happin regardless of our not wanting them to.

    It amazes me that people give so little regard to the power and nature of the way the planet works. We always seem so surprized when a natural disaster hits, as if the planet has never given us reason to expect what happins. We build in tornado ally, floodplanes, volcano slopes and fault lines and when our lives are disrupted by the nature of the place we live we cry 'foul'. :bonk:
    "How could god/whatever do this to us?"

    The truth is we do it to ourselves... The people in California who built thier homes on the clear-cut slopes were warned that the land was unstable and would give way... they chose to build anyway, they took from the land the one thing holding it in place, the trees, then covered the land with slabs of concrete that keep in the water... :banghead3

    sorry to rant, but I've always been very annoyed by this. Dispite humanities accomplishments we are not above nature itself, we need to respect the world we live in and the land we live on. Accidents and natural disasters happin, its inevitable.

    wa:do
     
  8. Lycan

    Lycan Preternatural

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    maybe I am braindead today, but were we not talking about telling the difference between good and bad?
     
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  9. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    WOW! That doesn't happen often. I think it's cause for celebration. NetDoc: Will you split a bottle of champagne with me, my friend? :)

    Frubals to you.
     
  10. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    hmmm looking over my posts and your replies...i have to concede...you probably could imagine something better or worse even if you lived in a bubble and had no knowledge of the outside world...
     
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  11. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Well retro... I think you celebrated by putting me over 5,000 frubals. :D It was either you or No*s.
     
  12. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Great! I will be happy to take the credit. :)
     
  13. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    I do not view DEATH as a tragedy; I view it as a TRUTH. I do not categorize DEATH as violent or non-violent, common or uncommon, right or wrong. I draw no such conclusions. I do not rate death. I do not critique death. I have no such judgment in the matter.

    Hello It’s Me: An Interview With GOD

    Chapter: The Columbine High School Incident

    Page: 124
     
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  14. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Things happen.... for whatever reason. Whether they are good or bad is weighed more by our response than what happend, imo.
     
  15. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    My jazz teacher use to say, "There is no wrong note, as long as you follow it by the right one." :D
     
  16. groovydancer88

    groovydancer88 Active Member

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    Well, which one?

    If it's the first one, then you're saying that God cannot interfere. This is limiting the power of God, which for a Christian (as your profile states you are), is quite an unusual thing to do. :) If I'm interpreting you incorrectly, I apologize... please clarify what you mean.

    I agree with Carrdero. I believe that since God created life, he's the one with the authority to take life. After all, we're all going to die... it's up to him to decide when, where, and how.
     
  17. groovydancer88

    groovydancer88 Active Member

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    I may or may not be right (forgive me if I am not) but I think what jewscout means is that because there is bad in the world it helps us appreciate the good, rather than taking it for granted, regardless of whether or not it was good in the first place.
     
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  18. almifkhar

    almifkhar Active Member

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    these are things that are important for mother earth. earthquakes and the like need to happen for the survival of the planet. they are not disasters at all. why they are considered disasters is because for some strange reason people like living in these areas and get themselves killed. most for some reason or another do not pay attention to the warnings that nature gives them before these things happen. the animals in the forest listen to the warnings but humans don't listen and then wonder why so many died.
     
  19. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    I apologize groovydancer88 but I shoud have pointed out that I believe it is our decision when our physical lives should end, whether it be a choice that we make in the spiritual realm before taking a physical life (Planned Livelihood) or a decision during our physical existence. This shouldn't limit our perception of GOD's power but should strenghthen His Love and Trust for us to have the freewill to make this important decision ourselves.
     
  20. precept

    precept Member

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    When the question is asked of God.....
    Only God can answer! And all of God's answers are in His Word- The Bible!

    Tragedies began in heaven with the War between God and Satan...In the end satan lost and was cast out of heaven. Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven.[ they were cast out]
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."


    It is more than apparent from the account of Jesus' disciple John's rendering of the conflict in heaven between God and satan that the opposite of Good, Evil was allowed to coexist with God's good from the beginning.
    It is also more than apparent from this account that the EARTH being the place to which satan was confined; that satan would work his evil art as much and even more than he did in God's heavenly abode. The bible as well, documents this fact in : verse 12 of Revelation chapter 12... ".....Woe to the imhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
    It is true that satan cannot control the natural events of nature unless God allows it; however, it is also true that God allowed the tragedies of nature because of satan's sins. Tragedies He only allowed ON EARTH when like the angels in heaven, man also joined forces with satan, and sinned against God.

    This fact is again documented in the bible.
    Genesis chapters 1-2 documents a earth with flora and fauna perfect in every regard that "GOD SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD" and rested on day seven. However, sometime shortly thereafter satan introduced sin And...in verse 17 of chapter 3...GOD CURSED THE EARTH " cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shall thou eat of it all the days of your life; verse 18, Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;.....
    Natural disasters accordingly followed in conjunction with man's sinning against God..... again the bible in Genesis 6:5.... "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every imaginationOF THE THOUGHTS OF HIS HEART WAS ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth , and it grieved Him at His heart........And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them ; and, behold, I WILL DESTROY THEM WITH THE EARTH".......And the flood was forty days upon the earth.....And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground."[Genesis chapter 7]

    A "NATURAL DISASTER", at least to the people of Sodom and Gomorrha, occurred when in Genesis 19:24.... " The Lord rained fire and brimstone fron heaven upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha", destroying all plant and animal life.

    The scriptures clearly documents that the earth will remain cursed until God makes "a new heaven and a new earth WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS[ with the emphasis on righteousness. 2 Peter 3:13] As long as there is sin on the earth, the Lord will rain judgements, using nature to bring man's attention to His being God; and because He is God, He demands that all humans of every nation, worship Him and Him alone. Still because us humans refuse to acknowledge the commands of God; He will continue to rain judgements on the earth using ["famines, and pestilences and earthquakes in divers places" Matthew 24:7] God is angry with us humans who persist in sinning against Him; and will rain judgements against us all; just as he rained judgements against the Ante-Deluvians....Like He rained judgements against the Eygptians, with the ten plagues... and like he rained fire and brimstone against the sinners of Sodom and Gomorrha.
    God is not partial as to how He uses His nature to punish those who sin against Him-ignoring and disobeying His commands. The people of Israel was not spared when they also chose to sin against Him; and God used nature in the form of poisonous serpents in invade the camp of the Israelites killing thousands of the people He called "His own people".


    In the days before His second coming, God will again use nature; and again in the form of "NATURAL DISASTERS" -which is the name sinful humanity chooses to call His judgements. These judgements as He will use; will be no less in intensity as in the judgements He has been using ever since man chose to join forces with the devil and satan and sin against Him.

    Read about these "NATURAL DISASTERS" yet to come in Revelation chapters 14-18.

    Till the Lord comes to renew the earth; and as long as Man of His created humanity continue to disobey Him and sin against Him, He will continue to rain His judgements in the form of natural disasters on the earth..... "THE WHOLE CREATION WILL CONTINUE TO GROAN AND TRAVAIL IN PAIN" ....Romans 8:22.... And All because of Sin.


    precept
     
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