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Why does God abort so many fetuses?

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I agree, I believe Adam and Eve are fictional characters, as is the Biblical god.


The Bible make very little attempt to describe God or tell us much about him at all.

The Old Testament paints a picture in our minds of a very jealous God intent on keeping our noses to the grind stone of religious duties, or face destruction, but happily destroys our enemies if we do so.

The New testament is more confused, it Depicts a more Loving God who takes pleasure in punishing sinners. he is shown as an extremely authoritarian Dad who does not spare the strap. but kisses you better in remorse afterwards. That is, if he does not cast you into a fiery pit first.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
The Bible make very little attempt to describe God or tell us much about him at all.

The Old Testament paints a picture in our minds of a very jealous God intent on keeping our noses to the grind stone of religious duties, or face destruction, but happily destroys our enemies if we do so.

The New testament is more confused, it Depicts a more Loving God who takes pleasure in punishing sinners. he is shown as an extremely authoritarian Dad who does not spare the strap. but kisses you better in remorse afterwards. That is, if he does not cast you into a fiery pit first.

God has all the worst of human characteristics.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Even if there were no two original humans who birthed the rest of the human race, the point is not disproven. It doesn't matter who the first people were who fell and sinned, the important part is that the first people fell and sinned, and we have been doing the same thing ever since.
I do not agree
The important thing is that we continue to improve.
the story is a moral imperative to do that.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
One does not exclude the other.

I do not believe that the first modern humans to develop, were bad or sinners. I do not believe that had those concepts at all.

However there has been a steady increase in understanding of our motives, ethics, and what is best for the future of ourselves and the rest of creation.
This is not so much a journey from bad to good, but more a growth of understanding.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
We put the worst possible face on God.
Based on our own worst experience of authority and power.
It has nothing to do with the reality of God at all.
about whom we know nothing.

The Biblical character is ghastly! OK there is no evidence there is any god, if one should exist I hope it is nothing like that monster.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Of course animals miscarry, and they have since long before humans came on the scene. If I were to fit Genesis into historical chronology (which I doubt is meant to be possible as the Creation story teaches spiritual rather than scientific truth), I would say that God gave mankind the option to obey His command to not eat from one ordinary tree (contrary to gow most people read Genesis, and as Christians have been saying since at least the 400's AD there was nothing special about the Tree of Knowledge) and live in peace, innocence and holiness. We refused that offer, so instead of being transformed and elevated, we remained where we were in.terms of our physical infirmities.
Which, you do realize, would mean that God created us in a state of being punished. In the end, I believe that a lot of things are "just said" by those of belief, or even their sympathizers. A lot of things that aren't really thought through, aren't even anywhere near fact, are obviously nothing but opinion, can most often just be shrugged off entirely, or even ridiculed... and entirely contradictory opinions can be held by the same person. This already happens enough without religion... and religion and religious dogma, doctrine and "history" only add to the pile. This is exactly why believers can say all they want and not in any way even remotely influence people who see right through their diaphanous excuses.
 

Baroodi

Active Member
Exalted Our Merciful God.(And it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is which is bad for for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye not know) Noble Quran 1;216
I.e what you thing is good for you, is your devastation if not diverted away from you.
Allah(God) warn us in Quran against some of our Sons
( O you who believe , some of your spouses and sons are enemies to you, be cautious with them. If you forgive and pardon them, God is forgiving and merciful)
unfortunately we heard in news how tragically, some kids murder their dad or mum.
Ingratitude to parents by disobeying them(as long as they are not ordaining a thing against the basics of your divine guidance ) or humiliating them by not looking after them when they are frail and elderly, is the second in the list of major sins in Islam after Polytheism and atheism.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Forgive me if I read too much into your post, but the common argument I run across, and which I interpreted your post to imply, goes something like this:

God created everything, including the rules by which the universe functions. Everything in the universe is subject to these rules. Thanks to these rules, we can predict every physical/chemical/energetic reaction that happens from the Big Bang onward. By seeing the complex chain of causality, we can therefore determine what the future will look like, down to each state of each individual quark at any given point in timespace. The consciousness of living beings is simply an amalgam of chemical and electrical signals and reactions. Because of this, we can predict exactly what an organism will do in any given instance based upon the sum total of previous reactions the organism has had to its surrounding environment or even to its own inner world of consciousness. Since this is all completely predictable, organisms therefore do not have any actual free will, as their actions are predictable and boil down to purely physical phenomena which we can analyze and for which we can trace the chain of causality. Therefore, if God created the universe, every single one of our actions, thoughts, sins, virtues, personal characteristics, etc. was determined in advance by the fundamental rules underpinning the universe. Therefore, based on the sheer fact of how God designed the universe, it was an inevitability that we would sin and run afoul of God, and so God had already forced Adam and Eve to make their decision to sin from the very moment that He created the universe.
OK, I did not intent to make any of these claims, nor did I in actuality. I'm not sure where you are getting any of this from my comment. So, can you address my actual comment?

Here it is again:

"You are comparing apples and oranges. God is all-powerful, a.k.a. no limitations. Our reality/universe, otoh, behaves in a certain way. God forced Adam and Eve to make the decision, and making that decision binding on all other innocent humans to come. God was not responsible for the American Revolution. That was an act of men."
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Which, you do realize, would mean that God created us in a state of being punished.
That depends. The consequences of ancestral sin could simply just be us continuing to suffer natural things like pain, disease and death, in addition to a spiritual separation from God. Retracting an offer for eternal life, peace and bliss could in and of itself be a punishment, without needing to worsen our condition any further. It would be like if I offered you a million dollars if you held your end of some bargain. When you broke your end of the deal, I withdrew my offer of one million dollars. Are you punished? Sure. But does your lack of a million dollars beforehand mean that you entered the deal in a state of being punished? Hardly.

In the end, I believe that a lot of things are "just said" by those of belief, or even their sympathizers. A lot of things that aren't really thought through, aren't even anywhere near fact, are obviously nothing but opinion, can most often just be shrugged off entirely, or even ridiculed... and entirely contradictory opinions can be held by the same person. This already happens enough without religion... and religion and religious dogma, doctrine and "history" only add to the pile. This is exactly why believers can say all they want and not in any way even remotely influence people who see right through their diaphanous excuses.
Which is why argumentation is a crappy way to evangelize. Preaching to the choir here.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
But does your lack of a million dollars beforehand mean that you entered the deal in a state of being punished? Hardly.

But we're NOT talking about just going back to "the state you were in" before the offer, are we? We're talking about the attributes (like pain, suffering, having to face harsh conditions, etc.) of "the state God created us in." So, under your proposed explanations, God feels that leaving things status quo is adequate punishment for disobedience. So, if I didn't receive the one million, I would at least be no worse off than I was before. But why ever refer to an instance in which nothing changed as "The Fall of Man?" Why not something more appropriate to the actual situation... like "The Big Oops?"
 
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