1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why Does Everyone Have to Reject the Messiah?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Pudding

    Pudding Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,423
    Ratings:
    +302
    I can understand that is what you believe.
    Do you also believe you're the Messiah?
    Your answer is yes or no?

    So do you believe there is 0, at least 1 or more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in?
    Choice of answer:
    (1) You believe there is 0 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in.
    (2) You believe there is at least 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in.
    (3) You believe there is more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in.

    Which one is your answer?

    What do you mean?

    My question which you had quoted was:
    You say "Thus this explains why regardless of what the Messiah says, no one will accept him (Luke 7:25) until after the land is cleansed (Luke 7:30)."

    Since you and @InvestigateTruth accept the Messiah, does that mean the land is already "cleansed"?
    Choice of answer:
    (1) Yes, the land is already cleansed.
    (2) No, the land is not yet cleanse.

    Your answer is (1) or (2)?

    What do you mean?

    My question is :
    Do you wish to convince anyone to believe what you believe?
    Choice of answer:
    (1) Yes, you wish to convince people to believe what you believe.
    (2) No, you don't wish to convince people to believe what you believe.

    Your answer is yes or no?

    Because scripture exists, and people who follow it exist, therefor it prove that the scripture is fact?
    Choice of answer:
    (1) Yes.
    (2) No.

    Your answer is yes or no?

    Wizanda: The ideas presented are that the deception version 1 (which i believe is fact) is already explained within it, and is already there in reality; people reject the Messiah version 1 and ideas which i believe in, as they're not wise enough to see it.

    Person 2: The ideas presented are that the deception version 2 (which i believe is fact) is already explained within it, and is already there in reality; Wizanda reject the Messiah version 2 and ideas which i believe in, as he's not wise enough to see it.

    Person 3: The ideas presented are that the deception version 3 (which i believe is fact) is already explained within it, and is already there in reality; Wizanda reject the Messiah version 3 and ideas which i believe in, as he's not wise enough to see it.
    etc

    Person 4: I believe i'm God, people don't believe me because they're not wise enough to see the Truth.

    Person 5: I believe the moon is made of cheese, people don't believe what i believe because they're not wise enough to see the Ultimate Truth.

    Person 6: I believe there are many invisible elephants flying all over the world, people don't believe what i believe because they're not wise enough to see the Super Ultimate Truth.

    I think it's an excuse for one to avoid present evidence to prove their claims.
     
    #61 Pudding, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  2. Pudding

    Pudding Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,423
    Ratings:
    +302
    Thanks for answer.
     
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Yes

    I don't do beliefs tho, we can show the data of my name in the religious texts globally, and knew that existed at 4 years old - had to study to show it.

    Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).

    Sandalphon (Judaism), Yeshua (new name of Christ = Sananda), Kalki/Skanda (Hinduism), Ahura Mazda + Saoshyant (Zoroastrianism - Zand = Exegesis), Maitreya (Buddhism - Ananda), Our Elohim Zion (Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), etc.
    3

    There are people who already accept the doctrine needed, and qualify for the Messianic Age (Revelation 6:9-11); most here have failed already.
    2

    The verses should have been Luke 17:25, Luke 17:30 and if an admin reads this please edit the original post, to save further confusion.
    No, I'm interested if they can.
    Yes, as the scriptures say it will catch out the blood drinking ravenous beings i.e. vampires (Revelation 16:6), and that has happened.
    Exists when all fallacies are removed.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    10,098
    Ratings:
    +7,938
    Religion:
    Atheist
    what patterns?
     
  5. Pudding

    Pudding Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,423
    Ratings:
    +302
    "Believe" means "accept that (something) is true".
    So by saying "you believe you're the Messiah", it means you accept the statement of "you're the Messiah" as true and fact. So, you do do beliefs.

    What does "existed at 4 years old" means?

    You have present some religions' Gods' name, but i have yet to see anyone of them have the name of "Wizanda". Please explain why do you believe your name is the same name of those Gods' name.
    My question is: So do you believe there is 0, at least 1 or more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in?

    Your answer is: (3) You believe there is more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in.

    Thanks for answer.


    Who're those people who have accept the real Messiah you believe in?

    Please share the complete list of their religions' names here please, so i can know that precisely who you believe have failed and who you believe haven't fail, thank you.
    My question is: Since you and @InvestigateTruth accept the Messiah, does that mean the land is already "cleansed"?
    Your answer is: (2) No, the land is not yet cleanse.
    Thanks for answer.


    Here i see a contradiction in your statements.

    First, you said "no one will accept him (the Messiah) until after the land is cleansed".
    Then, you said "you believe there is more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah you believe in".
    Later, you confirmly said that you think "the land is not yet cleanse".

    If the land is not yet cleanse, there shoud be 0 person who have accept the Messiah, because "no one will accept him (the Messiah) until after the land is cleansed".

    Until after the land is cleanse, no one, as is 0 people will accept the Messiah.

    Yet you said there is more than 1 person who have accept the real Messiah but the land is not yet cleanse?

    Can you see the contradiction in your statements which i have presented here?
    I see, you do not wish so.
    My question is: Because scripture exists, and people who follow it exist, therefor it prove that the scripture is fact?
    Your answer is: Yes.

    So if some annonymous person write a religious book saying that the earth is flat, the earth is only 5000 years old...etc, and because those books exists and people who follow it exist, therefor it prove that the book is fact?

    Again, if some other annonymous person write another religious book saying that the earth is triangular, the earth is only 1 year old, the moon is made of cheese and billions of invisible flying elephant is flying all over the world...etc, and because those books exists and people who follow it exist, therefor it prove that the book is fact?

    Seriously?
    Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    (1) Where in the verses imply it will catch out the blood drinking ravenous beings?
    (2) What is the "it" who will will catch out the blood drinking ravenous beings?
    (3) What does "it will catch out the blood drinking ravenous beings" means?
    (4) Who is the "thou" the verse referring to?
    (5) Who are worthy for what?
    (6) Precisely what has happened?

    Please clarify the confusion, thank you.
     
    #65 Pudding, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  6. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,132
    Ratings:
    +2,320
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Hi,

    As regards to the Cleansing of the Land. You may also be referring to the following verses, which is also explained in the Bahai Writings as follows:


    In Daniel 8:13 it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”, until it says: “at the time of the end shall be the vision”. That is to say, how long shall this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation endure? Or, when will the morn of Revelation dawn? Then he said, “two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”.
    Briefly, the point is that he fixes a period of 2,300 years, for according to the text of the Torah each day is one year. Therefore, from the date of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the advent of the Báb there are 1,844 years, and if 456 years are added to this number it makes 2,300 years. That is to say, the fulfilment of the vision of Daniel took place in A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the advent of the Báb. Examine the text of the Book of Daniel and observe how clearly he fixes the year of His advent! There could indeed be no clearer prophecy for a Manifestation than this.


    In my view, 'the Sanctuary' has a symbolic meaning. It is the symbol of Religion of God. The idea is, the Religion of God will fall in the hands of false teachers, for a period, then when at the End, the Promised One comes, He will renew the Religion and clean it from all false teachings.
    In our view, this is fulfilled.
     
    #66 InvestigateTruth, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Isaiah 34 is the Ravenous Beings like 'Vultures Gathered' (Luke 17:20-37) around the dead body of Christ, these are removed at judgement day.
    It is Isaiah 28:9-21 Bed of Adultery that we find in Revelation 2:22, those who are in it are removed by the Tribulation.
    The Holy Fire of God will cleanse humanity within the Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 24).
    The Archangel relating the message is most likely the Messiah based on contexts.
    Worthy is an awful wording, 'accountable' for defiling the Law is far better.
    The book doesn't become fact, it is fact some people are evil, and don't even see it.
    Yes you've managed to create what you perceive to be a null equation; as instead of fully understand my contexts, you're failing at setting me up.

    There are people who understand the doctrine required... I'm talking advanced theologians with minds like Buddha, Lao Tzu, Yeshua, Krishna, etc.
    There is a level of musical frequencies required in a number of fields within the soul's matrix - the fire will leave those who get it, which is already calculated.

    As for a list of who, that is up to the CPU (God).
    If we miss parts of context, we'll struggle with meaning... I've known since I was a child that I'm sent from Heaven.
    Believe contains a lie, knowing is subjective, and showing is objective.

    There is always an element of doubt with a belief.
    Because Zanda is the last (Z) and (A) first, it is part of the transcendental sound of Ananda which created infinity in Hinduism, in many cultures Zan is found in deities names...

    Zeus could be pronounced Zan.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    21,153
    Ratings:
    +9,353
    Religion:
    śrī kṛṣṇasya sevāyām - “In Lord Krishna’s service”
    Or not needing. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  11. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    33,201
    Ratings:
    +18,009
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    The sages and saints of Sanatana Dharma, and there are thousands over the last 5000 years, at any given time a few on the planet. They sit in caves, in forests, or with brothers and sisters in enclaves of like minded souls. Today there are some 2 million souls out of a billion, who are at the point in their evolution where they intuitively know the search is within, and only within, have been initiated into the holy orders of sannyas. It isn't a path of words, but a path of seeking on the inside. What others have said before is just that, what others have said before. Truth is beyond words, beyond time, beyond space, and most certainly beyond prophesy. Outside, way outside, far beyond that paradigm.
     
  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Ultimate truth is beyond words, as all fallacies must be removed, and we're in the Maya; the only way to remove all veils of illusion from our sense of reality is to acknowledge it.

    We realize some people have taught ignorance is bliss; yet that is the opposite to enlightenment.

    When Yeshua said "If the eye be single, the body be full of light" (Matthew 6:22-23) is to recognize both paths of the Yin and Yang (Maya), and then through mindfulness (Raja Yoga) see the middle-line.

    "If that light be darkness how great that darkness", is many who ignore the evil connotations, and thus fall into the same Snare of Kali Yuga created for the Raktabīja (Blood Thirsty), and Tarakasura (Demons of Salvation).

    Brahma can imply Creation, Yah (H3050) and Havah (H1933) can imply Lord of Creation.

    Brahman is the God Most High in the Bible (EL Elyon), and Isaiah 46:9 declares EL (God) is not like Elohim (Divine Beings).

    Thus they've messed up the Hebrew, to read a Dharmic theological texts to translate Brahman, and Brahma as God.

    Thus never underestimate the complexities Brahman (CPU) will go to, to educate whilst testing mankind with the Dharma.

    Those who are not going to reach Moksha get cleansed by fire soon, like prophesied in both the Kalki Purana and Revelation.

    The Rider on the White Horse, who is the 25th incarnation of the divine, will vanquish those who reject the Dharma soon at Mahaparalaya.

    Basically if people wern't Anti-Christ's teachings, as they choose to see through only one eye, than some of this would already be known.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    10,098
    Ratings:
    +7,938
    Religion:
    Atheist
  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Then you've not read the post properly.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  15. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    10,098
    Ratings:
    +7,938
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Or maybe you should clarify?

    I mean... first you made a claim about finding "patterns" in the bible by using "software".

    When I asked about these patterns, you linked me to some thread that attempts to interpret certain parts of the bible.
    The word "pattern" isn't even mentioned. From the looks of it, this thread has exactly nothing to do with the point at hand.

    So yea, I don't get it.
     
  16. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    So for example; Yeshua states that Moses, and the Prophets spoke of him (Luke 24:27)... To understand this properly, we have to do Strongs word searches:

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

    H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

    The post is showing the same, there are masses of equations that can be shown objectively, by Strongs searches showing data.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  17. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    10,098
    Ratings:
    +7,938
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Still no clarification.
    Please explain what you are doing here.

    What is "H3444" and where does it come from?
    What is it that is being searched and what is the supposed implication of finding results? And how is that concluded?

    Please explain your method, your premises, and your results.
    At the moment, it sounds like word salad.
     
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    There is a reference book called the Strongs Concordance; which correlated all the usages of words in the Bible in their original languages.

    This makes it searchable by number, so instead of searching by exact spelling, we can look by all reference number usages.

    H3444 is the word Salvation in Hebrew, when we examine the usage of this word by the different writers of the Bible we see underlying implications.

    The word Yesha (H3468) is to Save, Yehoshua (H3091) son of Nun is the person who led the Hebrews into Israel, and Yehoshua son of Yehozadek who led them back from the Babylonian exile.
    We should never assume a result, just word search meanings, and descriptive words used in sequences for paraphrasing possibilities.
    Evidence is concluded, when we read the context of all the passages listed, in both their historical & cultural setting; where the ideas presented show clear patterns, to be able to suggest evidence of an intended narrative overlooked on a surface level.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #78 wizanda, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  19. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    10,098
    Ratings:
    +7,938
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Still no explanation on what these mysterious patterns are and what it supposedly means.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Given you more explanation than many have received, and you're not interested in studying in detail - Like saying most fail at accepting the Messiah, as they're not exegetical enough.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
Loading...