why doctors?

[Buttons*]

Here's another MSN conversaion i'm sure y'all will get sick of

It has to do with God in terms of being a great physician. Here it goes:

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panda says: (8:23:55 PM)
i have a question for christians though

Becky Boo says: (8:24:17 PM)
ok

panda says: (8:24:29 PM)
okay, the christians say that only god is their healer... and it's gods decision to make or take life

panda says: (8:24:36 PM)
so why do christians have doctors?

Becky Boo says: (8:24:50 PM)
Hmm.

panda says: (8:24:52 PM)
either way, you're altering life

panda says: (8:25:01 PM)
and therefore messing up with gods plan

Becky Boo says: (8:25:02 PM)
Because it be silly not to. I guess. I've heard the reaosn somewhere

panda says: (8:25:03 PM)
dont you think?

Alyssa says: (8:25:08 PM)
you should make a thread on that, ashley

Becky Boo says: (8:25:09 PM)
God's plan can be altered

panda says: (8:25:15 PM)
by people?

Becky Boo says: (8:25:17 PM)
Some believe in predestation

Becky Boo says: (8:25:21 PM)
luckily I don't

panda says: (8:25:24 PM)
*nods*

Becky Boo says: (8:25:28 PM)
your life isn't set in stone

Becky Boo says: (8:25:42 PM)
your life is done by your actions, and what you do

panda says: (8:25:42 PM)
no, but if you give it over to god, then why trust it with man?

Becky Boo says: (8:25:57 PM)
there's an answer and it's on the tip of my toungue

panda says: (8:25:59 PM)
thats what christian science is all on about

Becky Boo says: (8:26:03 PM)
i just can't remember

Becky Boo says: (8:26:15 PM)
yeah, christian science is a bit weird to me, personally. why wouldn't you wnat a doctros help

Becky Boo says: (8:26:23 PM)
if it's god's time to take you, he will take you no matter what

panda says: (8:26:24 PM)
cause god is your healer

panda says: (8:26:29 PM)
your great physician

Becky Boo says: (8:26:37 PM)
even if the surgery, etc, saved your life, he can still take you if that's your time

panda says: (8:26:41 PM)
true

Becky Boo says: (8:26:43 PM)
you could be helathy as a duck

Becky Boo says: (8:26:49 PM)
and then BAM dead the next day

Becky Boo says: (8:26:57 PM)
so whenever he feels like it, that's your turn....

panda says: (8:27:16 PM)
but then why do people bomb abortion clinics and things like that?

Becky Boo says: (8:27:28 PM)
because they are retarded

panda says: (8:27:50 PM)
one of the reasons for pro life is that they're altering life

panda says: (8:27:58 PM)
well.... anytime you see a doctor you alter your life

panda says: (8:28:07 PM)
anytime you wake up and make a decision you alter life

Becky Boo says: (8:28:10 PM)
yeah..

Alyssa says: (8:28:17 PM)
anytime you do anything you alter your life

panda says: (8:28:22 PM)
i know!

Becky Boo says: (8:29:03 PM)
life isn't set, you make your life. if you give you r life over to God, then yes, he can give and take anywhere He wants, but He's not going to interfere in everyday life

Becky Boo says: (8:29:13 PM)
we have our free agency and choice, that's what so wondeful about his plan to me

panda says: (8:29:14 PM)
ooookay

Becky Boo says: (8:29:22 PM)
We can choose

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

First of all, In believe God blessed us with doctors. He heals our souls and spiritual selves, while he has blessed us with science and doctors to heal our physical bodies.

Secondly, I believe that we choose everything for ourselves, but God knows exactly what we're going to choose.

 

[Buttons*]

First of all, In believe God blessed us with doctors. He heals our souls and spiritual selves, while he has blessed us with science and doctors to heal our physical bodies.

Secondly, I believe that we choose everything for ourselves, but God knows exactly what we're going to choose.

well, first in reply, why are Christians allowed to be picky and choosey when it comes to scientific benefits?

Why is it only okay for some science? Shouldnt Christians reject ALL things scientific and rely completely on God?

Yes, but you're getting into predestination.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

well, first in reply, why are Christians allowed to be picky and choosey when it comes to scientific benefits?

Why is it only okay for some science? Shouldnt Christians reject ALL things scientific and rely completely on God?

No. If the science is there for us to use, why shouldn't we use it? And if God didn't want science, I don't guess he would have allowed it to be created. I consider it to be God's blessing, not something that he hates.

 

[Buttons*]

No. If the science is there for us to use, why shouldn't we use it? And if God didn't want science, I don't guess he would have allowed it to be created. I consider it to be God's blessing, not something that he hates.

Well, your considerations aside, what is the Christian view on science in general?

Are the evil scientists attempting to lead you away from god? ..... and yet.... did god put them on this earth so they could carry out his will?

.....and who are you to answer these questions?

 

[may]

luke was a doctorThis man, Luke, lived in the first century C.E. Paul, the Christian apostle, called Luke "the beloved physician," Luke’s writings give evidence that he was a medical doctor. (Colossians 4:14)
Luke the beloved physician
Lit., "healer." Gr., i·a·tros´; Lat., me´di·cus. there is nothing wrong with doctors , we need them at times, but in the future when the whole world is healed , we will not need them because there will be no sickness.

And no resident will say: "I am sick. Isaiah 33;24

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."​

(Revelation 22:2) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations

 

[Buttons*]

luke was a doctorThis man, Luke, lived in the first century C.E. Paul, the Christian apostle, called Luke "the beloved physician," Luke’s writings give evidence that he was a medical doctor. (Colossians 4:14)
Luke the beloved physician
Lit., "healer." Gr., i·a·tros´; Lat., me´di·cus. there is nothing wrong with doctors , we need them at times, but in the future when the whole world is healed , we will not need them because there will be no sickness.

And no resident will say: "I am sick. Isaiah 33;24

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."​

(Revelation 22:2) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations

.... well, okay, good....

But I have no idea how the verses you've quoted validate* people having Doctors.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...But I have no idea how the verses you've quoted validify people having Doctors.

First, I think the word you need here is validate.

This question you pose "okay, the christians say that only god is their healer... and it's gods decision to make or take life...so why do christians have doctors?" IMHO, is best answered with the question "What makes you think that going to the doctor is against God's will?" I'll throw in some yummy bamboo shoots for a good answer.anda:

For those who believe it's a simple thought process. God created everything on this earth, He gave us curiosity to figure out how to use His creations, and He gave us wisdom to refine medicines and use them to treat people.

Now there are some Chrstians who eschew 'traditional' medicine in favor of 'faith healing', and while I'm not putting those folks down in any way, when I've faced injury or illness, I say a prayer and go to the doctor.

 

[Buttons*]

First, I think the word you need here is validate.

thanks for the correction. I really should learn not to post at 5am...

This question you pose "okay, the christians say that only god is their healer... and it's gods decision to make or take life...so why do christians have doctors?" IMHO, is best answered with the question "What makes you think that going to the doctor is against God's will?" I'll throw in some yummy bamboo shoots for a good answer

Well, of course the answer I have may not be good enough. I dont feel like looking through a Bible at the moment... But think back to Job. God was his only healer, and the lesson there was to rely on God alone for EVERYTHING.

Doctors do not to anything "against" god's will, but they can extend someone's lifespan, or shorten it. I'm wondering why people go to doctors instead of simply relying on God. Another point of contention is abortions. If that practice is helping someone, and the doctors are just doing their job, why is that against God's will, when the majority of Doctors who do their job are within God's plan?

Isn't that being a bit picky and choosey? Plus, in order for doctors to learn about the body they have to study science. The majority of Christians that I know think that sciences are evil... I dont get it!

For those who believe it's a simple thought process. God created everything on this earth, He gave us curiosity to figure out how to use His creations, and He gave us wisdom to refine medicines and use them to treat people.
Now there are some Chrstians who eschew 'traditional' medicine in favor of 'faith healing', and while I'm not putting those folks down in any way, when I've faced injury or illness, I say a prayer and go to the doctor.

*nods* i can deal with this reasoning

 

[CaptainXeroid]

Aha! Here's the foundation for your thought process

...The majority of Christians that I know think that sciences are evil...

I know thousands of Christians, and I cannot name a single one I personally know who holds this view. I guess for people who do, going to the doctor would be against their religion, but it's not anything to which I can relate.


I do understand the confusion if people are telling you they think science is 'evil' then they seek the counsel and services of people who have dedicated their lives to the study and practice of things scientific. At that point, they would appear to be hypocrites, and as you may recall from other posts, I do not take use of that word lightly.


As for abortions, there are some OB-GYNs who will not perform the procedure due to religious objections. There are others who may not approve, but will do so because they have weighed the pros and cons and decided that abortion is the 'lesser' of two 'evils'.


Two of the most faithful members in our church are doctors. He is a renowned heart surgeon, and she is a psychiatrist, and they shared their challenge balancing faith and work. They and all doctors are bound by the Hippocratic Oath, and as I read it to refresh my memory, I see quite a few similarities to an oath many graduating seminary students take before entering their ministries.:162:


OK...to wrap up...and my brain is hurting for this early on a Monday......I don't claim to speak for all Christians, but I don't view going to the doctor as 'not relying on God'. Since I believe God created the doctor and gave him the aptitude to learn his trade, in fact, I believe engaging his services IS part of God's plan for me.


As promised. I hope they are to your liking.

 

[may]

when God heals peoples illnesses it will be all people , but that is for a future time , we are left to our own ways now, Jesus showed on a small scale when he was on the earth , how easy it will be to heal people , now that is something to look foreward too. Jesus will heal people on a worldwide basis ,and the power will come from His father Jehovah.For now, the wise person will obey the laws of God. He will attempt to maintain his health. But he knows that in the last analysis the sure end of ailments will come from God in his new system of things.

 

[Buttons*]

when God heals peoples illnesses it will be all people , but that is for a future time ,

so God doesn't heal presently?

we are left to our own ways now, Jesus showed on a small scale when he was on the earth , how easy it will be to heal people , now that is something to look foreward too. Jesus will heal people on a worldwide basis ,and the power will come from His father Jehovah.

okay, but how does this have to do with doctors?

For now, the wise person will obey the laws of God. He will attempt to maintain his health. But he knows that in the last analysis the sure end of ailments will come from God in his new system of things.

...so, as Christians, we should accept or reject doctoral practices?

 

[Buttons*]

Aha! Here's the foundation for your thought process
I know thousands of Christians, and I cannot name a single one I personally know who holds this view. I guess for people who do, going to the doctor would be against their religion, but it's not anything to which I can relate.

Well, you have to understand that the Christian school I go to claims that dinosaurs never existed... so it's all a bit extreme. I'm sorry for generalizing Christians by this standard.

I do understand the confusion if people are telling you they think science is 'evil' then they seek the counsel and services of people who have dedicated their lives to the study and practice of things scientific. At that point, they would appear to be hypocrites, and as you may recall from other posts, I do not take use of that word lightly.

As for abortions, there are some OB-GYNs who will not perform the procedure due to religious objections. There are others who may not approve, but will do so because they have weighed the pros and cons and decided that abortion is the 'lesser' of two 'evils'.

Thank you for clearing this up *smiles*

Two of the most faithful members in our church are doctors. He is a renowned heart surgeon, and she is a psychiatrist, and they shared their challenge balancing faith and work.

They and all doctors are bound by the Hippocratic Oath, and as I read it to refresh my memory, I see quite a few similarities to an oath many graduating seminary students take before entering their ministries.

*nods* I remember learning about this in my Bible class when they were discussing euthenasia.... but I'll save that topic for another thread *smiles*

OK...to wrap up...and my brain is hurting for this early on a Monday......I don't claim to speak for all Christians, but I don't view going to the doctor as 'not relying on God'. Since I believe God created the doctor and gave him the aptitude to learn his trade, in fact, I believe engaging his services IS part of God's plan for me.

Okay, I'll take this answer *smiles*

As promised. I hope they are to your liking.

ooooooh, you know how to please a panda!! :drool:

 

[michel]

Well, your considerations aside, what is the Christian view on science in general?

Are the evil scientists attempting to lead you away from god? ..... and yet.... did god put them on this earth so they could carry out his will?

.....and who are you to answer these questions?

Silly!

As a Christian, I am interested in science; being unintelligent, I can't understand it.......when people start talking about black holes and string theory, I go cross-eyed. But that doesn't mean to say I am not a good Christian (IMO). I don't believe in a young Earth, I do believe in Evolution, I do believe that God somehow sparked the soul into being, gave us the world to play with, and to get on with.

It always comes down to that one point of our existance; - we have choice. God must know (even have known) man's potential. He would be fully aware that we would be inventing surgical procedures to mess with nature (grafting ears on mice etc), but he still is giving us the choice of using medicine in a 'good' way, or a 'bad' way.

Of course we need doctors (I more than most!:yes: ), but I don't believe it is impossible for man to evolve to the stage where he will heal by God's love alone............we may still be a million miles away from that, because we are so keen on focussing on the material.........that is all that life teaches us about - materialism; maybe one day, we will try to develop our 'Godly' abilities, but until that day, we're stuck with doctors, God bless 'em.

 

[Buttons*]

Silly!

As a Christian, I am interested in science; being unintelligent, I can't understand it.......when people start talking about black holes and string theory, I go cross-eyed. But that doesn't mean to say I am not a good Christian (IMO). I don't believe in a young Earth, I do believe in Evolution, I do believe that God somehow sparked the soul into being, gave us the world to play with, and to get on with.

It always comes down to that one point of our existance; - we have choice. God must know (even have known) man's potential. He would be fully aware that we would be inventing surgical procedures to mess with nature (grafting ears on mice etc), but he still is giving us the choice of using medicine in a 'good' way, or a 'bad' way.

Of course we need doctors (I more than most!:yes: ), but I don't believe it is impossible for man to evolve to the stage where he will heal by God's love alone............we may still be a million miles away from that, because we are so keen on focussing on the material.........that is all that life teaches us about - materialism; maybe one day, we will try to develop our 'Godly' abilities, but until that day, we're stuck with doctors, God bless 'em.

*hugs* thank you for that Michel. I agree

 

[may]

so God doesn't heal presently?

okay, but how does this have to do with doctors?


...so, as Christians, we should accept or reject doctoral practices?

as far as i am concerned there is nothing wrong with seeing a doctor , and accepting treatment, as long as that treatment does not go against what God says is wrong , and christians would know what the bible says is wrong. sometimes we get better sometimes we dont . thats just the way it is at this point in time ,

 

[Defij]

I just wanted to chime in here and say that not all Christians are like you presuppose we are Buttons. Actually, the majority are not as you have described. We don't "hate" science and medicine and critical thinking..haha! The people who do believe this are a very VERY small minority, however, just like anything else that is outrageous, it gets all the publicity. How many kids school and kill other kids in this country? A very VERY small minority. But what do you see on the news every night? The MILLIONS of good kids who are doing positive things in their communities, or the few bad apples that go on shooting rampages? Same concept here with Christians that believe Science and criticism are some anti-Christian conspiracies.

As far as the substance of your post is concerned, from what I gathered anyways, when the Bible talks about God and/or Jesus as being a "great physician" it is very safe to say that the meaning of that is not literal, as in Jesus is our physical doctor. It is more to show that God is a "spiritual doctor" who heals our spiritual side, not our physical side. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to a doctor. In fact Luke, one of the writers of a few books of the New Testament was himself a doctor. So yeah, I hope that helps a bit.

 

[Buttons*]

.... as long as that treatment does not go against what God says is wrong , and christians would know what the bible says is wrong.

Can you quote it scripturally?

 

[Buttons*]

I just wanted to chime in here and say that not all Christians are like you presuppose we are Buttons.

*giggles* Yes, i know. I used to be Christian

Actually, the majority are not as you have described. We don't "hate" science and medicine and critical thinking..haha! The people who do believe this are a very VERY small minority, however, just like anything else that is outrageous, it gets all the publicity.

It's not just publicity, its an aspect that's being taught at my school! I go to a private christian school... and most of what they teach, imo, is crap. But if anyone actually believes like they do, I'd like to smack them up the head and say... "how does that make ANY sense?" *shrugs* Anyway, I do realize that the majority of Christians in the world aren't this anal. This question was more directed at those who do have a rather large stick up their butts. *smiles*

As far as the substance of your post is concerned, from what I gathered anyways, when the Bible talks about God and/or Jesus as being a "great physician" it is very safe to say that the meaning of that is not literal, as in Jesus is our physical doctor. It is more to show that God is a "spiritual doctor" who heals our spiritual side, not our physical side. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to a doctor.

Jesus is not God. Yeshua is the son of God. Yet, he is part of the trinity, and NOT the father. I'm not talking of Yeshua's miracles, I'm JUST discussing OT God.

In fact Luke, one of the writers of a few books of the New Testament was himself a doctor. So yeah, I hope that helps a bit.

*giggles* I know who Luke is

Did Luke ever meet Yeshua? (no)

Let's stick to the OT. Think of Job.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Well, your considerations aside, what is the Christian view on science in general?

Well, I don't know about the "general Christian view" but my view is that science is good, It is very helpful in finding cures for diseases, as well as making possible websites such as Religious Forums.

.....and who are you to answer these questions?

Ummm...well, you did post the thread. I don't know what you were expecting besides answers to questions.