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Featured Why do you say" you have to prove your personal faith and beliefs"

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Seeker of White Light, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    Why should someone have to prove to you that "their belief" is right for them. It is a personal belief in a religious faith they hold. Who are you to say they are wrong, or it is not logical to believe as they do, because YOU don't believe what they do.

    Who are you to tell a faithful believer that their belief is wrong, because there is no "evidence" that YOU accept to be true?

    It is not your belief/disbelief, but if the faithful believer has all the personal evidence that their belief is right for them.

    Who are you to tell them it is not?
    The believer has the proof they need personally to hold their faithful belief in what ever religious faith they follow. They do not have to prove it to anybody.

    You can ask: why do you believe so or so, and what ever the answer you get that is why that person believe what they do. You do not have the right to say "your belief is wrong" just because you disagree. Accept that people believe and walk away.

    And yes I know your attack will come...who cares anyway????
     
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  2. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I don't
     
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  3. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I don't BUT don't try to make me believe what you believe and tell me I'll be in hell for eternity if I don't
     
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  4. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    I have no need to convert anyone to believe, this thread is about giving answer to the OP, it's not about me as a person or believer.

    It's time certain people start answering for their constant "prove your belief, or you just imagine it to be real" a believer do not have to prove to others.
     
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  5. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    Dear Conscious thoughts,

    If you think about it, is not our beliefs in themselves that become the business of others; it’s the actions that our beliefs lead us to. And this is understandable, because what we do with/about what we believe, does affect others.

    At times, people do also attack a belief if/when they “foresee” that it will lead to - or promote - a certain type of action that they fear. The problem with that, is that they are passing judgement - and doing so a-priori.

    That said, certain beliefs (e.g. fascism), stand slim chances of not inspiring people to fearful actions. And that is what makes those sort of beliefs difficult for others to “tolerate” and not question.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Or that I am irrational as a human. There is functionally no difference between you go to hell or you are not the correct version of a proper human based on my personal evaluation. Both are without proof, evidence, rationality, logic, objectivity and all the rest of that jazz.
    So I don't care if you treat my like I am going to hell or like a really irrational human. So me they are the same, because they are in the person, who claim it and not about me.
     
    #6 mikkel_the_dane, Nov 27, 2021
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  7. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    I understand your reply @Hermit Philosopher, this thread is for those who attack religious beliefs, this thread is not about believers have to again defend them selvs from attack.
     
  8. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Okay, as a skeptic, the joke is that some people can't differentiate between descriptive and prescriptive or understand how this one applies to them personally:
    "Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not." Protagoras
    Measure is the prescriptive, normative and/or first person qualitative value evaluation.
    So all of these thread in the end in the absurd sense for western culture revolve around this: "I am rational and you are not!" The problem is that rationalism doesn't work for all of the everyday world and neither does empiricism.

    In cultural and historical terms western culture are 3 overall ideas. Rational, God and democracy. I only believe in the last one and even that has its limits.
     
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  9. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Religion is promoted as an ontological truth, not a social club or therapeutic modality, so "right for them" is a mischaracterization.
     
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  10. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    Why?
     
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  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, that depends on what you consider religion.
     
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  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Would you say relativity, the speed of light or the laws of motion were "right for" someone?
     
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  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, all the everyday world is objective reality and all that jazz. So now I say: No! That is too simple.
    If you can reduce away this part of being a human: "Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not." then go for it. But nobody in recorded history so far has been able to reduce subjective measure to being objective. But you might be the one, though I doubt it.
     
  14. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    In this physical world where certain physical laws humans can understand, yes. But outside of this physical world/dimention other laws may exists. So no there is not just one answer. And if a person understand the law of physics those laws can be broken (through spiritual practice as one example)
     
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  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Here is another version of the fun of this: Science is a reductive process, so everything is physical including this: No!. The problem is that some people over reduce and make the world too simple.
     
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  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Some people make it 10x complex than it really is. ;)
     
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  17. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, really has no objective referent, but that is too complex, right. ;)
     
  18. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    You do realize that you keep making threads where you ask people to say what they think of your beliefs, right?

    You don't need to do that.
     
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  19. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    I don't think anyone ever says "you have to prove your personal faith or beliefs to me" if they're your own personal beliefs. How would they even know them if you haven't pushed them upon them?

    I think the only time one says such a thing is when one wants their own beliefs to become the beliefs of another.

    If you believe 2+2=7, that's fine. If you want me to believe it, then the burden is on you to prove it to me.
     
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  20. Trinity Stooge

    Trinity Stooge .Ii¿⊙?!I.

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    How did we come by our knowledge of his needs?
     
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