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Why do you not believe in God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Redeemed of God, May 12, 2004.

  1. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality?

    Quite simple really, hit someone in the head with a baseball bat. You most likely will split open his head and kill him. That IS reality and we CAN talk about it.

    How can one even rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is?

    Truth is subjective and only relative to the observer. Why bother with it?
     
  2. Mr Spinkles

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    I'm still not sure why God would "carefully design" certain flies to lay their eggs in the thorax of bees, so that their young will hatch in the body and slowly eat the bee alive....if that was carefully designed, then God must be awfully sadistic.
     
  3. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Well you know, Mr. Spinkles,

    The will and plan of god is much too complex to be understood by the human mind, and to question that which certainly must be there for our own good somehow, will certainly do nothing to... aw hell, who am I kidding?
     
  4. Redeemed of God

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    You guys are all blind. Every creature was perfect before sin but sin entered this world...everything changed thats why our eye can have problems, thats why there are gay people in this world, thats why you don't believe in God. I have tried to explain God but you will just not accept that he exsists. When judgement comes to this world...
    Romans 14:11&12
    11. For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    12. So then every one of us shall give account to himself.
    Receive Christ as your personal savior and you shall have eternal life!
    John 3:16 For God so loved the word, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    I've had enough arguing with you people you just won't accept what God has given you...every breath you take is from God, everything u think God knows and every verse from the Holy Bible is true. Evolution is wrong and every other religion than Christianity is wrong. I hope and pray that you come to understand the truth. I done with these forums.
     
  5. Mr Spinkles

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    Redeemed of God--

    Please don't go, I think we have much to learn from each other in a good-spirited debate :cry:

    But you have quoted the Bible here...you think the Bible is correct. Not everyone thinks the Bible is correct, just as not everyone thinks the Muslim Q'ran is correct. Assuming everything written in the Bible was Divinely inspired, then yes you are probably right. But not everyone assumes this, and therefore beleifs are open to questioning.
     
  6. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Listen, Redeemed,

    No one is meaning to offend you here. You seem pretty tiffed, but you know what? It goes both ways. I'm probably just as frustrated with you as you are with me, but that's ok.

    Bottom line, I am perfectly willing to listen to what you have to say, but the only evidence you have to offer me is from a source I believe to be illegitimate. So what do you need to do? Find a new source, thats all.

    To say that every religion besides Christianity is true, is just crossing the line a bit though, I think. Do you not realize that everyone here has basically just as much faith in their individual religions as you do? In fact, even Christianity is founded on faith, and that you cannot deny. You would say in response to my questions "You just gotta have faith", but obviously, looking at all the faith filled people of other religions who are burning in hell right now, I'd say faith alone is not quite sufficient.

    And what about you? I'm sure there are people out there who say that their religion is the only one, and everyone else is toasted. How can you be so sure you are right and they are wrong?
     
  7. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    I've had enough arguing with you people you just won't accept what God has given you...every breath you take is from God, everything u think God knows and every verse from the Holy Bible is true. Evolution is wrong and every other religion than Christianity is wrong. I hope and pray that you come to understand the truth. I done with these forums.

    The only reason someone like you would want to leave these forums and be done with us is because you’re starting to question your faith. We are making sense to you and that scares the hell out of you, literally. You’re beginning to envision your entire faith based reasoning crumbling like the house of cards that it is. You know in your mind that what we say describes accurately the reality in which you live.

    Perhaps there is hope for you yet.
     
  8. Redeemed of God

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    How come you don’t believe in God?
    I've grown up in a Christian home and am only 16 but I believe in God with my whole heart. He is the creator...how can you not say he is? In the God's Word (The Holy Bible) it says "The Heavens declare the glory of God." Look at the earth, look at a human being...they are so detailed. If there was no God there would be no peace. You guys might be struggling but I'm not because I believe Jesus Christ’s as my personal savior. If you don’t believe in God because he's the truth than there is no reason to be an atheist. I'm no Catholic, I'm a protestant...they are the true saints of Christ. If you don’t fully comprehend God and Jesus Christ...I am your servant for Christ sake and I will try to help you understand why there is a God.
     
  9. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    LMAO, this should be amusing...
     
  10. osuwagner

    osuwagner Member

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    First of all, this is an individual religion forum, so it is against the rules for you to even post what you are posting here. Secondly, you sound extremely arrogant when you just automatically assume that you are right and that we all need to be converted.

    I think that you have made a HUGE assumption when you say that we are "struggling" simply because we do not believe in an omnicient being seperate from the rest of the universe. I cannot speak for all other members of atheism, but I think that the difference between us and other religions is really just a matter of perspective. You believe that god is the infinite being, and that god created the world. I, however, believe that there was no creation, so in essence, the entire universe is the "infinite being," which follows the laws of physics and the law of cause-and-effect. I view the universe as one incredibly long mathematical equation which has no beginning nor end, it is instead just a continuous stream of events. Mathematically speaking, the we say that the first 3 dimensions (space) are infinite, and so therefore 4th dimension (time), it is infinite as well. These basic mathematical assumptions. They are equivalent to your assumption that there is an outside being. However, if you carry the logic out far enough, you'll find that it is impossible to assume both things. Because of the law of conservation of energy, energy (and therefore matter) can be neither created nor destroyed. Therefore, if time is infinite, then the same amount of energy that exists now has always existed and always will exist. It is impossible to alter it, because we are made up simply of atoms which are made up of energy and so we are only part of the equation. Every thing we do is a direct result of what has happened before us. I don't think it is necessary to create this idea that someone must have been acting upon the earth in order for it to arrive at the point it is now. Rather, I think it is mathematically impossible for us to have arrived at any other point.

    What seperates atheists from all other religions is that we dol not allow ourselves to follow a blind faith. We prove everything for ourselves step by step in order to ensure validity. I find it so hystarical how christians say they don't have to assume anything because everything in the bible is true. Yet, where in the bible does it say that everything in the bible is true? Nowhere. You had to take this as true from hearing it from someone else, and you just refuse to question it. They, in turn, had to make this assumption from whomever they were first told. When it comes down to it, the Bible was written by humans as an attempt to justify why they should be civil to each other and to try to explain the questions of existence. I'm not saying this is bad, because it certainly is true that in order for a society to exist, there needs to be some authority and motivation for people to act for the good of the group instead of just for themselves. With that said, I think that we have progressed to a point where we can try to prove things more analytically rather than just accepting something which was written 2000 years ago as fact. I think that instead of merely accepting these notions, we should instead work to prove a mathematical absolute truth which is impossible for anyone to disagree with.
     
  11. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I think most atheist at one time actually believed in God and have recieved salvation when they were younger. Why else would an atheist spend energy to prove that something doesn't exist that they don't even believe in? Doesn't make sense to me.
     
  12. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Atheists, like anyone else, want to show others that their unique worldview is accurate. I don't think this is an indication of them trying to "deny God" after receiving "proof of His existance" through "salvation"... which is what I think you were trying to imply.

    If that were the case, ANYONE who is not Christian and who tries to persuade others to their world view is in the same boat (having received salvation in their youth and now trying to pretend the Christian God doesn't exist)... which I don't believe to be the case.
     
  13. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    ***MOD POST***

    There will be no debating in any of the seperate religion forums. These forums are for learning about the individual religions.


    So, instead of locking a potentially entertaining thread.... I'm going to move this to Religious Debates.... have fun guys. :goodjob:

    Maize

    8)
     
  14. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    trueblood,

    I think you're right. Many atheists did indeed at one time believe in god or some sort of religion, and it is them who seek to prove their points to others, because they are the ones who have the religious backround (and therefore knowledge) to do so.

    I am offended at your comment of why atheists talk about their ideas. Why do you talk about yours? We try to disprove something we don't believe in, and yet you try to prove something you do believe in. How is that any different?

    Redeemed of God,

    How's it going? Finally, someone willing to rise to the challenge! You're giving me a break from being the one to instigate this tough argument, and so I will take you on... or down, probably.
    At any rate, work this out for me to start off: You say the Bible says that 'the heavens declare the glory of god,' yada, yada, yada. I am sure that it does, but then again, the Bible says a lot of things (I mean, it is like 1000 freakin pages, right?). The point here is, how can you be so sure that the Bible is true? Like what osuwagner was saying; there is absolutely no proof in its factuality. Do you believe in the Bible because that's what you've been taught? Funny-- I believed in Santa becasue up till I was about 7, that is what I had been taught. Do you see where I'm going here?
     
  15. Redeemed of God

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    If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.
    The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away. For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.

    There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

    There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

    The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:


    "No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

    Scientific Accuracy
    Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:


    Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)

    Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)

    Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)

    Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

    Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)

    Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)

    Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)

    Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

    Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

    and many others.
    These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.
    It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible -- in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.
     
  16. Bastet

    Bastet Vile Stove-Toucher

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    :eek:mg: Are you saying that Santa doesn't exist?!? :lol:

    In regards to the topic at hand: I don't believe in 'God' in the Christian sense of the word...that doesn't automatically make me an athiest. :roll: That just makes me not a Christian. :lol:
     
  17. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    A good reply, Redeemer of God,

    I do agree that the bible is accurate regarding archeology-- in fact, I view that as a rudimentary must for anything I plan on taking seriously. This is because the stories in the bible were indeed written by people of the time, and so they of anyone should have known their way around.

    However, I'm not here to debate what has been proven.

    Have you ever thought it possible that the Old Testament could have been altered to fit the New, and vice versa, therefore creating these 'fulfilled prophecies'? The evidence for that is there: the bible was complied by fallible men at the time of Constantine. Point being, those men had stock in what the common people thought and did, and so could have done a little nip and tuck to be sure everything they needed to manipulate the people was present. That's just a theory, however.

    Or what about this? Could the stories have been originally written in a fictional manner? How many weird cults are there today which try to manipulate things as to 'fulfill a prophecy'?
     
  18. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    One other thing: The 'divine inspiration' point is null and void with me. There is no proof of that whatsoever.
     
  19. Redeemed of God

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  20. Mr Spinkles

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    Let's alter your statement's point of view a little and see what we come up with: I think most [religious people] at one time actually believed in God when they were younger [but later began to doubt their faith]. Why else would [a religious person] spend energy to prove that something [does] exist that they [already] believe in? Doesn't make sense to me.

    :lol:
     
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