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Why do you not believe in God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Redeemed of God, May 12, 2004.

  1. Mr Spinkles

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    Sure, it's right here in the Bible on page....wait a minute.... :lol:
     
  2. teapot_tall_and_yummy

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    What the devil? can you explain what you meant by this?
     
  3. Redeemed of God

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    Give me sometimes to study and i'll get back to it...its too lates for me. (after all im still in school i need to study for my CAT's)
     
  4. Redeemed of God

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    A Catholic mass is by definition the sacrifice of Christ (Catechism 1322, 1338). The Baltimore Catechism (Confraternity Edition of 1949) says, "Christ gives us His own body and blood in the holy Eucharist first, to be offered as a sacrifice commemorating and renewing for all time the sacrifice of the cross" (Catechism 356).

    While the Catholic catechisms quote the passages that speak of Christ dying once, they also teach that the priest miraculously transforms the bread and wine into Christ's real body, and that Jesus is then sacrificed anew. "The blood is real blood (it looks like wine and tastes like wine at Mass, but it is truly the Blood of Christ."[1]

    Although there is some variation among Protestants on the meaning of the Lord's supper, without exception biblical Protestants teach that the sacrament is not a renewal or a revisitation of the bodily sacrifice of Christ. Rather it is a remembrance and a memorial use of symbols blessed by God to the benefit of the humbled believer.

    This contrast is far more than a controversy of words. It goes to the very heart of the difference between Catholicism and Protestant Christianity. Protestant faith denies that the church has the power to perform the mass's "miracle of transubstantiation," and it further denies that the Lord's Supper's purpose is to see accomplished the death of Christ all over again.
    "Nor did He [Jesus Christ] enter heaven to offer himself again and again..."
    (see Hebrews 9:25-10:18) (King James Version)

    There are many more reasons but I'd be here all day.
     
  5. Redeemed of God

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    Hey...I can't give you an explanation of God that we can all agree on because most of you people are atheists or agnostics as I would put it. This is from the Shorter Catechism which is part of the Westminster Confession of Faith, which has all the Protestant's doctrines or at least most of them with biblical proof.

    Q. 4. What is God?
    A. God is a Spirit,[7] infinite,[8] eternal,[9] and unchangeable,[10] in his being,[11] wisdom,[12] power,[13] holiness,[14] justice,[15] goodness,[16] and truth.[17]


    [7] Deuteronomy 4:15-19. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. Luke 24:39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. John 1:18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 4:24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Acts 17:29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    [8] 1 Kings 8:27. But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? Psalm 139:7-10. Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Psalm 145:3. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable. Psalm 147:5. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite. Jeremiah 23:24. Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. Romans 11:33-36. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

    [9] Deuteronomy 33:27. The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them. Psalm 90:2. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Psalm 102:12, 24-27. But thou, O LORD, shalt endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.... I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. Revelation 1:4, 8. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne.... I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    [10] Psalm 33:11. The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Malachi 3:6. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Hebrews 1:12. And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. Hebrews 6:17-18. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. James 1:17. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

    [11] Exodus 3:14. And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Psalm 115:2-3. Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 1 Timothy 1:17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15-16. Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    [12] Psalm 104:24. O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. Romans 11:33-34. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Hebrews 4:13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 1 John 3:20. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

    [13 Genesis 17:1. And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Psalm 62:11. God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God. Jeremiah 32:17. Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: Matthew 19:26. But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    [14] Hebrews 1:13. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 1 Peter 1:15-16. But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 John 3:3, 5. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Revelation 15:4. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

    [15] Genesis 18:25. That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Exodus 34:6-7. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Deuteronomy 32:4. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Psalm 96:13. Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth. Romans 3:5, 26. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man).... To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    [16] Psalm 103:5. Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's. Psalm 107:8. Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! Matthew 19:7. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? Romans 2:4. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

    [17] Exodus 34:6. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Deuteronomy 32:4. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Psalm 86:15. But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth. Psalm 117:2. For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD. Hebrews 6:18. That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
     
  6. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    Why do I not believe in God?

    Primarily because I found the practice of Christianity did not work as advertised in my life. Secondarily because no matter which version of Christianity I tried there were too many "questions you don't ask". Tertiarily, because Christianity has been used as the justification for some of the most horrible and terrible acts in history.

    I have no problem with others believing in God if they so choose. For me, it's not my path.
     
  7. teapot_tall_and_yummy

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    Redeemed..... not sure what your staying still. Im a Catholic... I know all about the Mass. I'm a Eucharistic Minister for the love of jorge. Who did you mean when you said they are the true saints of christ... and why is that? You have only explined hte difference to me between catholic and protstant... im well aware, my three best friends on this earth are protestant. And here's one issue I have with quoting the bible...... I could write a huge book, like the bible. Multiple copies. Bury them different places. in thousands of years, people dig them up and say oh wow and take it all literally, when its something I made up. And it's useless to quote the bible as an authority to people who don't believe in god... It's like quoting the Vedas to me... i don't believe in it so it truly matters not to me.
     
  8. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Wow...damn...you've really got me here. I mean, if the catechism says it then jesus, how can I possibly refute?

    Yeah, that was a little sarcastic.

    You know what though? You have made me think. Why, exactly, am I trying to convey my ideas and possibly 'convert' people like you? I mean, you are very useful as you are! Hell, you'll believe ANYTHING, and that can always be utilized by someone like me!

    I mean, do you hear yourself speaking here? "It looks like wine, it smells like wine, it tastes like wine, any scientific test you could do on it would reveal it as having the exact characteristics of wine, but the 'mother ship' has proclaimed that it is the true blood of christ, therefore it could not POSSIBLY be wine." :lol:

    I'm sorry, but this is just making me laugh here. i mean, not only are you having to deal with a lack of evidence for your case here, you're also having to cope with the mutitude of evidence against you. That sucks, man.

    Okay, one thing that the Catholic church really does not need to do, is to try to resemble a cult more. Lemme put that last line up for you again:

    SACRIFICE THE VIRGINS! I mean, come on! Does that not sound a little deranged to you? Even though I am not Christian, I have to tell you that it makes much more sense for you to revisit and remember Christ's sacrifice, rather than actually play it out. This is just ridiculous.

    I must say one other thing though: I agree with teapot-- STOP QUOTING THE FREAKING BIBLE!!!!! You are really just wasting space in this forum, as you are using biblical passages as your evidence, and although I thought I'd made it clear before, I guess I did not, so lemme set the record straight-- I do not believe the bible has any evidencial merit, whatsoever. I visited those sites you sent me, explaining the divine inspiration theory, and all they really did was make me wonder if you had actually been on them yourself, because they really don't make any sense.
     
  9. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Hey...I can't give you an explanation of God that we can all agree on because most of you people are atheists or agnostics as I would put it.

    So, each and every theist completely agrees as to the definition of god?

    Sorry, but thats horsepucky. The definition of god is inherently personal to each individual and no two definitions are the same.

    One has a better chance at finding two people with identical fingerprints than two people who agree on their definitions of god.
     
  10. teapot_tall_and_yummy

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    Good points there Q. Redeemed, as I said before I'm Catholic. That doesn't mean I agree with everything the Catholic church declares. When it comes to birth control for instance. BIG differences there... I'm still delving into the whole transsubstantiation, but wine or blood, its still sacred to me cause in the least it represents a great great sacrifice. My views on homosexuality differ from those of the Catholic church (in case you couldnt tell :mrgreen: ) Considering my general views on religion are different, my view of God is going to be different as well. I know Catholics who think that God is this all powerful being and they portray him as a king figure. I believe God is all powerful, but instead of being an authority figure, he's more of a granfather i'm incredibly close to who takes care of me and makes sure i stay on the right track. People may share a similar view of this, but there's no possible way they could have the exact same feelings. Why are you trying to define something that simply cannot be defined? Go ahead and give me a dictionary entry. But remember - man wrote the dictionary. Man tried to define God just as you are trying to. We cannot fully comprehend God, so we cannot fully explain Him.,
     
  11. Redeemed of God

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    teapot you basically told me there that your're not a Christian so u dont have anything to argue about.
     
  12. osuwagner

    osuwagner Member

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    Redeemed,

    I went to a Catholic school all my life, and your use of the Baltimore Catechism as a source for what Catholics believe is completely erroneous. While it is true that it set the basic guidelines for American catholicism in the pre-Vatican II era, it has since been thrown out and is no longer used for anything. So basically your argument is meaningless.
     
  13. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    haha your real funny..I was talking of religious writings hence this is a religious forums.
     
  14. Redeemed of God

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    Osuwagner if this is true then what is the new Catechism? Not only that the beliefs in that catechism can be traced back to the beginning of Roman Catholicism. Oh by the way...when I said we are the true saints of God we are but there are many catholics who are saved and believe in Christ but their doctrine is messed up.
     
  15. Redeemed of God

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    Osuwagner if this is true then what is the new Catechism? Not only that the beliefs in that catechism can be traced back to the beginning of Roman Catholicism. Oh by the way...when I said we are the true saints of God we are but there are many catholics who are saved and believe in Christ but their doctrine is messed up.
     
  16. Redeemed of God

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    We could open up a new topic Roman Cathlics versus Reformers. This topic is on Why you do not believe in God? I am goin to try this one more time. God does exsist and it can be explained through creation.
    No one can deny that our complex universe is an astounding, majestic marvel. The mere contemplation of its vastness and grandeur causes our heads to spin. Yet how did it get here? Can it be, as so many scientists contend, that this all happened because of an enormous explosion? Or did it come about as the result of the careful design of an infinite God?

    Let's look briefly at two Bible passages that speak of God's revelation of Himself through nature. First, let's turn to the Old Testament book of Job. As you may recall, Job was severely tested by the devil. Like people today, he had great difficulty finding an acceptable answer to the question: How could a good God allow injustices such as pain and suffering? Here was a man who had been identified as one who truly loved God, yet his riches and his children had been taken away, and he was afflicted with boils.

    After a long period of seeking answers to his questions about God, Job finally heard directly from Him. Speaking to him out of a whirlwind, God told Job that to see Him he should look beyond his immediate difficulties and observe nature and the world around him (Job 38 ) . Let's look at some of the specifics of nature in this passage and see what conclusion they lead us to make.


    The wonder of the world's formation (vv.4-6).
    The wonder of the heavens (v.7).
    The wonder of the ocean-land balance (v.8 ) .
    The wonder of a new dawn (v.12).
    The wonder of the ocean depths (v.16).
    The wonder of the life-death cycle (v.17).
    The wonder of the origin of light (v.19).
    The wonder of an electrical storm (v.24).
    The wonder of the wind (v.24).
    The wonder of the hydrological cycle (vv.25-30).
    The wonder of animals nurturing their young (vv.39-41).
    In essence, God was saying, "In your anguish, you are asking where I am while you suffer. Look again at the world around you, and you will see Me there and be reminded of My wisdom and power." Bruce Demarest, author of General Revelation, wrote, "Through the medium of a magnificent creation, Job perceived the reality of God. Awestruck, abased, and filled with reverence at the contemplation of God in His works, Job opened his mouth and said, 'I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes' " (Job 42:5,6).

    Many of the Psalms also testify that nature gives us evidence of the existence of God. Psalm 19:1-4, for example, says that the eloquent voice of God can be heard throughout all creation. The psalmist wrote:


    The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun.
    Day and night, the psalmist said, the glory of God is made known through "the heavens" and "the firmament." And their message is available to all who will hear, for their voice goes out to all the earth and will be heard "to the end of the world."

    To provide a case in point to support the psalmist's contention, we could go in many different directions. We could address the logical improbability that life began without an outside stimulus, no matter how much time scientists postulate for such an occurrence. We could speak of the intricate pattern of the movement of the bodies in the universe--including amazing pinpoint timing of their courses in relation to one another. We could talk about the precise tilt of the earth, its exact distance from the sun, and its accurate journey through our solar system--all prerequisites for the temperate climate we enjoy.

    For the sake of brevity, let's examine only one tiny, vital part of our existence--the eye. Let's see how its complexity implies the involvement of an intelligent designer and defies the idea of random development.

    According to most people who don't believe in God, we have achieved our present physical condition on the basis of evolution. They tell us that what started as a single-celled something-or-other a few hundred million years ago has finally worked its way to humanhood. But let's consider this small organ of the body and see if it could have logically taken that evolutionary route. If it didn't, then could we reasonably deduce that it came from the hands of a Grand Designer?

    Here's the case. If you were to take away any part of the eye--the retina, for example--the eye does not work. Or subtract just the lens. No sight. The cornea? Blindness. For the eye to function, all parts must be present and functional. That in itself is a strong argument for design.

    But let's go in another direction. Let's take that concept back into the evolutionary chain. Somewhere along the way, a creature making its way to humanity would have had to begin having an eye. But how did it start? The eye couldn't have evolved, because there was nothing that would have caused a creature to begin forming a sightless eye. Since the evolutionary theory says changes come about because of adaptation, what would have caused an eyeless thing to will a useless eye into its head? How would it know it would ever need an eye that could see?

    An eye can either see or it can't. and there is no reason for a creature to develop a partial eye just so it could become a seeing eye later. So where did the eye begin? Randomly or by design? The mind-staggering intricacy of the eye and the interrelatedness of all necessary parts attests to a Designer and Creator who knew what He was doing.*

    The Bible claims that God is the source of it all. The writer of Hebrews made such an assertion when he said:


    By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible (11:3).
    That is an amazing statement. It claims that God spoke into existence the worlds of our universe--using nothing we can see for His raw materials.

    While that seems hard to believe, it makes great sense when compared with the alternative. If indeed the worlds were not made by God out of nothing, then the next-best solution is that the worlds were made by no one out of nothing. Compare the two ideas for reasonableness and see which conclusion you come to.

    *This illustration was taken from the book, The Truth: God or Evolution? by Marshall and Sandra Hall, Baker Book House, 1975.
     
  17. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Can it be, as so many scientists contend, that this all happened because of an enormous explosion?

    The Big Bang was not an enormous explosion. Perhaps if you took the time to understand what it is the scientists are actually contending, then you can make the appropriate comments. But if you base your arguments on erroneous information, your arguments will hold no water.

    Or did it come about as the result of the careful design of an infinite God?

    I see nothing “careful” about the design of the universe, far from it in fact. If so careful a design, why does the universe appear completely stochastic?

    God told Job that to see Him he should look beyond his immediate difficulties and observe nature and the world around him

    Funny, that’s exactly what scientists do today. Yet, they are not finding gods as an answer to nature, are they?

    Let's look at some of the specifics of nature in this passage and see what conclusion they lead us to make.

    Conclusions drawn by your examples are conclusions drawn from ignorance.

    Through the medium of a magnificent creation, Job perceived the reality of God. Awestruck, abased, and filled with reverence at the contemplation of God in His works, Job opened his mouth and said, 'I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes'

    Of course, Job did not have the ability or tools to research anything, did he? His conclusion was drawn on having no evidence or facts whatsoever. Therefore, his reasoning was completely subjective.

    Many of the Psalms also testify that nature gives us evidence of the existence of God.

    Perhaps, but reality proposes there is no evidence whatsoever in nature of the existence of gods.

    According to most people who don't believe in God, we have achieved our present physical condition on the basis of evolution.

    So, does that mean the Pope does not believe in god? The church agrees with evolution.

    But let's consider this small organ of the body and see if it could have logically taken that evolutionary route. If it didn't, then could we reasonably deduce that it came from the hands of a Grand Designer?

    That is a logical fallacy. Just because A might be wrong does not make B right. C is always an option.

    For the eye to function, all parts must be present and functional. That in itself is a strong argument for design.

    Perhaps, but it is a stronger argument for evolution. One would have to ask that if by design, why does not every living thing have eyes?

    But, your ‘eye’ argument is one of many fallacious arguments against evolution. Unfortunately, the arguments stem from those who do not understand evolution or the concepts behind accumulative natural selection.

    BTW – did you know the eye has flaws? Why would your gods create a flawed organ?

    If indeed the worlds were not made by God out of nothing, then the next-best solution is that the worlds were made by no one out of nothing. Compare the two ideas for reasonableness and see which conclusion you come to.

    The flaw in this argument is the supposition that the universe was created from nothing.

    Regardless, the conclusions drawn are far in excess in favor of evolution over creationism.
     
  18. Redeemed of God

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    This was written by someone named Ken Ham
    Those arguing against creation may not even be conscious of their most basic presupposition, one which excludes God a priori, namely naturalism/materialism (everything came from matter, there is no supernatural, no prior creative intelligence).
    The following two real-life examples highlight some problems with that assumption:
    1.A young man approached me at a seminar and stated, ‘Well, I still believe in the big bang, and that we arrived here by chance random processes. I don’t believe in God.’ I answered him, ‘Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you don’t know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you don’t know if you’re making correct statements or even whether you’re asking me the right questions.’ The young man looked at me and blurted out, ‘What was that book you recommended?’ He finally realized that his belief undercut its own foundations —such ‘reasoning’ destroys the very basis for reason.
    2.On another occasion, a man came to me after a seminar and said, ‘Actually, I’m an atheist. Because I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe in absolutes, so I recognize that I can’t even be sure of reality.’ I responded, ‘Then how do you know you’re really here making this statement?’ ‘Good point,’ he replied. ‘What point?’ I asked. The man looked at me, smiled, and said, ‘Maybe I should go home.’ I stated, ‘Maybe it won’t be there.’ ‘Good point,’ the man said. ‘What point?’ I replied.
    This man certainly got the message. If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? How can one even rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is?
     
  19. teapot_tall_and_yummy

    Joined:
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    Slow slow slow slow WAAYYY down... how in the name of jesus mary joseph and each and everyone of those wise men on camels did you come to the conclusion that what i said was that im not a christian. please lemme know how you misintrepreted that.

    Now remember, I believe in God and Jesus. I believe very strongly. So lets watch on telling people what they believe.
     
  20. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Redeemed-

    Wrong.

    By theory of evolution, a fully functional and developed eye would not have simply 'appeared' out of no where on a previouslt eyeless creature. Lets look at the real process:
    Take flatworms, for example. They bear 'sunspots'- little 'spots' on their bodies which are highly sensitive to light. These are the makings of a simple eye! Over time and through changes in environment, these simple sunspots could develop much further. Mutations occur in DNA all the time-- whether you can see and notice them or not. The beginnings of a cornea, for example, could be simply from a mutation in the DNA, which caused for extra protein to be deposited in a certain area, etc. If that mutation proved useful, then the members of the species who were holders of it would therefore thrive and reproduce more successfully, passing on those mutative tendencies towards their offspring.

    But we really are not here to debate evolution, so to get back on topic, I would like to analyze this quote:

    The universe is indeed immensely complex and astounding, I absolutely agree. However, I do not see how complexity warrants a god and a careful design. I mean, the Earth is billions of years old! If it hasn't gotten to be a little complex by now, then that's a problem!

    You look around you and you see everything working in harmony: gravity is just right, weather patterns are survivable, everything that humans and other life forms need to survive is available to us. But contemplate this: the Earth came before us. We came, as a result of conditions being right. Conditions were not altered or planned for us by an intelligent designer. So then you may say that the odds of conditions being right are too high, and that the chance human life could exist is so slim, there must be someone up there controlling things! That's not true either. As far as life on Earth being at unfathomably high odds, you have to realize, that when met with infinity, all odds disappear. For instance, lets say, just to get a number out there, that the odds of life on Earth are one billion to one. Well, considering that, by popular belief, the universe is infinate, and therfore home to billions of trillions of solar systems, all the sudden, those numbers don't seem so huge. And also, time does not exist in the vacuum that is the universe. No matter what the odds, everything is bound to happen at some 'time' or another, simply because odds of time do not exist.

    By your use of the words 'enormous explosion' to describe scientists' theories of creation, I'm gettin the feeling that you probably don't understand them. Scientific theories of creation are actually very practical, and when one looks at the evidence, very little room for questioning is left.
     
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