Why do you looking to find faults in other peoples belief?

[InChrist]

Why do you looking to find faults in other peoples belief and faith, when you would hate when others did that to you? Are you that insecure about yourself?

If you calling other people's faith for evil, are you any better yourself?

I don’t enjoy it when others find fault with my faith, but am not surprised by this. After all, people of this world hated Jesus enough to crucify Him. That animosity toward Christ is still very much present, as well as toward those who love and follow Him.

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:18-19

 

[loverofhumanity]

Mainly, the faults I want to point out are the ones that cause believers to harm other people, solely because of those faulty beliefs. For example, a family disowning their gay teenager. If they didn't embrace these fallacies, biases, or baseless claims, then the world would be an objectively better place.

Hi. I am unaware of any Holy Scriptures instructing families to disown their gay teenagers. I believe you will find this is a teaching of priests not taught in scriptures. In our religion we are taught homosexual relations is immoral but we are forbidden to discriminate against them and must treat them as equals with love and kindness. The Bible says not to judge lest we be judged so families that reject gays are not doing so due to scriptures which says to love.

 

[F1fan]

Hi. I am unaware of any Holy Scriptures instructing families to disown their gay teenagers. I believe you will find this is a teaching of priests not taught in scriptures. In our religion we are taught homosexual relations is immoral but we are forbidden to discriminate against them and must treat them as equals with love and kindness. The Bible says not to judge lest we be judged so families that reject gays are not doing so due to scriptures which says to love.

It's notable that good people will reject and resist the negative teachings of their religious leaders. The problem is bad people who need moral guidance that take the negative influence and remain bad. Religion is a flawed system.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's notable that good people will reject and resist the negative teachings of their religious leaders. The problem is bad people who need moral guidance that take the negative influence and remain bad. Religion is a flawed system.

Formerly people needed educated leaders to guide them as very few were literate but now we no longer need to be spoon fed. We have matured as a race and no longer need spiritual baby sitting. But over time, religion has turned away from its original Prophet/Teacher and replaced it with self appointed clergy. Having become lazy minded, people like to be spoon fed by a preacher instead of using their own minds and so many have been led into superstition and fundamentalism. No Prophet, no Holy Book ever granted power to clergy but they were needed at one time.

Because humanity has matured sufficiently, Baha’u’llah, the Baha’i Prophet, abolished priesthood in His Holy Book. People now are googling and finding truth for themselves and this is the best thing that could happen to us.

 

[F1fan]

Formerly people needed educated leaders to guide them as very few were literate but now we no longer need to be spoon fed. We have matured as a race and no longer need spiritual baby sitting. But over time, religion has turned away from its original Prophet/Teacher and replaced it with self appointed clergy. Having become lazy minded, people like to be spoon fed by a preacher instead of using their own minds and so many have been led into superstition and fundamentalism. No Prophet, no Holy Book ever granted power to clergy but they were needed at one time.

As I highlighted it's apparent some have matured and do think for themselves and either reject traditional religion or use little of it. Your religion vilifies gays, and that really isn't a good fit for modern tolerance. Maybe being against gays was fine when your original teacher was alive, but this is why religions should die off.

Because humanity has matured sufficiently, Baha’u’llah, the Baha’i Prophet, abolished priesthood in His Holy Book. People now are googling and finding truth for themselves and this is the best thing that could happen to us.

Why do people need religion? They aren't finding it for themselves, they are reading what someone else thinks and adoting it. Googling? How is that not lazy?

 

[dybmh]

No Prophet, no Holy Book ever granted power to clergy

fyi Rabbinic authority appears to be biblical, deuteronomy 17:11

Rabbinic authority - Wikipedia

 

[loverofhumanity]

As I highlighted it's apparent some have matured and do think for themselves and either reject traditional religion or use little of it. Your religion vilifies gays, and that really isn't a good fit for modern tolerance. Maybe being against gays was fine when your original teacher was alive, but this is why religions should die off.


Why do people need religion? They aren't finding it for themselves, they are reading what someone else thinks and adoting it. Googling? How is that not lazy?

It is against Baha’i laws to vilify anyone including homosexuals. Although Baha’i marriage is only permitted between a man and a woman, we are forbidden to discriminate against others. And if individual Baha’is are found to be harming or hurting someone homosexual they will be strongly disciplined.

With respect to your question concerning the position Bahá’ís are to take regarding homosexuality and civil rights, we have been asked to convey the following. The purpose of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is the realization of the organic unity of the entire human race, and Bahá’ís are enjoined to eliminate from their lives all forms of prejudice and to manifest respect towards all. Therefore, to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith. Furthermore, a Bahá’í is exhorted to be "an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression", and it would be entirely appropriate for a believer to come to the defense of those whose fundamental rights are being denied or violated. (House of Justice)

Universal House of Justice, 27 October 2010 to an individual believer

 

[loverofhumanity]

fyi Rabbinic authority appears to be biblical, deuteronomy 17:11

Rabbinic authority - Wikipedia

Shalom.

I was thinking mainly of a divinely granted authority not a legal one although a high court granting authority gives much more credibility than just being self appointed. Clergy had a very important role to play in early history.

 

[AlexanderG]

Hi. I am unaware of any Holy Scriptures instructing families to disown their gay teenagers. I believe you will find this is a teaching of priests not taught in scriptures. In our religion we are taught homosexual relations is immoral but we are forbidden to discriminate against them and must treat them as equals with love and kindness. The Bible says not to judge lest we be judged so families that reject gays are not doing so due to scriptures which says to love.

Ok, well in fact the Bible instructs families to throw rocks at their gay teenagers until they're dead, because they're abominations and "their blood shall be upon them." So, disowning them is arguably a loose, overly kind interpretation. But you're right, it technically doesn't say to disown them.

 

[Goldemar]

Hi. I am unaware of any Holy Scriptures instructing families to disown their gay teenagers. I believe you will find this is a teaching of priests not taught in scriptures. In our religion we are taught homosexual relations is immoral but we are forbidden to discriminate against them and must treat them as equals with love and kindness. The Bible says not to judge lest we be judged so families that reject gays are not doing so due to scriptures which says to love.

Why are homosexual relations immoral?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ok, well in fact the Bible instructs families to throw rocks at their gay teenagers until they're dead, because they're abominations and "their blood shall be upon them." So, disowning them is arguably a loose, overly kind interpretation. But you're right, it technically doesn't say to disown them.

Please quote the passage instead of paraphrasing it because there is more to it than just one verse.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why are homosexual relations immoral?

Homosexuality is not immoral for people who believe it is ok. But my religion teaches me that the only moral sexual relationship is between a married man and woman.

 

[Goldemar]

Homosexuality is not immoral for people who believe it is ok. But my religion teaches me that the only moral sexual relationship is between a married man and woman.

So in your religion are homosexual sexual relations a sin punishable by God?

 

[AlexanderG]

Please quote the passage instead of paraphrasing it because there is more to it than just one verse.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Have you just not read the bible? Did you not know this was in there? Do you think that parents who disown their gay teenagers are wrong to do so because they should've executed their kid instead? Or what?

Maybe try to notice your own cognitive dissonance. When you read a passage that feels right to you, you admire god's perfect word. When you read a passage that feels wrong and abhorrent to you, you diligently start searching for a contextual mitigator, or a reason why it must no longer apply to people today. This is you applying your own subjective morality to the bible. Like everyone else does. Like everyone does not matter what their belief system is.

 

[osgart]

People only end up developing new intuitions, or remaining with their original intuitions. No one can truly know why things are the way they are without having an intuition that convinced them that they are in the right.

Asking a how question is far different then asking a why question. How things happen can be solidly known by experiment, and observation.

Asking a why question comes down to what satisfies people's new or old intuition. So non believers become satisfied they are right just as much as believers do, but are none the further in accomplishing absolute facts in regards to why things are as they are.

So I wouldn't go attacking people's intuitions unless they are harming others with their beliefs from intuitions, or they enjoy the scrutiny.

Some people love the scrutiny. Others have a personal investment in their beliefs and build their lives upon them, and really don't want scrutiny.

For me I have certain intuitions that I consider to be strong and worthwhile and telling of what truly is. But at the end of the day, it's a belief based on evidence. What reality is and why it is, are much harder questions than evidence based questions. What, and why go beyond evidence into interpretations of evidence.

It's maddening that people repeat themselves so much and keep talking evidence when it's a matter of philosophical proof about why questions.

So at the end of the day people are jacking up their convictions based on new or old intuitions and nobody is getting any closer to the truth of why things are the way they are.

Arguing intuitions new or old is a meaningless exercise. No one has a monopoly on why things are the way they are. It may be fun, or unpleasant but it gets no closer to truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So in your religion are homosexual sexual relations a sin punishable by God?

No. It’s between the individual and God. It’s not for us to judge others.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Have you just not read the bible? Did you not know this was in there? Do you think that parents who disown their gay teenagers are wrong to do so because they should've executed their kid instead? Or what?

Maybe try to notice your own cognitive dissonance. When you read a passage that feels right to you, you admire god's perfect word. When you read a passage that feels wrong and abhorrent to you, you diligently start searching for a contextual mitigator, or a reason why it must no longer apply to people today. This is you applying your own subjective morality to the bible. Like everyone else does. Like everyone does not matter what their belief system is.

I have read quite a lot of the Bible, certainly not all of it. The verse you are quoting is one I’ve never heard read out in any Christian church. If it was, then depending on the context, I’d walk out of that church straight away. It’s the sort of verse people only ever go looking for with malign intent; it’s indefensible, but then I’ve never heard anyone try to defend it.

I think you probably realise that the claim “the Bible instructs you to stone your gay child” is preposterous nonsense. It’s a desperate stretch to claim that one verse from Leviticus somehow invalidates the message of The Gospels

 

[Goldemar]

No. It’s between the individual and God. It’s not for us to judge others.

But if God has decreed it to be immoral, through Baha'u'llah, then surely God will punish someone for engaging in homosexual sexual relations? Otherwise, what is the meaning of immorality here?

 

[ppp]

Why do you looking to find faults in other peoples belief and faith

I am looking for the truth values in any proposition; be that the claims of others, or of my own. The fact that you or others have bundled many of your propositions up into a religion is purely incidental.

when you would hate when others did that to you?

I don't hate it. I am interested in knowing and understanding as much as I can This includes, but is not limited to, self examination of my ideas and perspectives, as well as a critical examination of those perspectives by others. Discovering that I have been wrong about a given thing and more importantly how I was wrong about that thing is glorious!

I am sorry that you hate that. But despite your assumption, I do not.

Are you that insecure about yourself?

Delighting in the discovery of my ignorance is insecure?

If you calling other people's faith for evil, are you any better yourself?

It depends. If their faith results in them failing to value consent, or in behavior towards their fellow beings that is lacking in empathy, equity, reciprocity, and cooperation; then yes, their faith is evil and I (and most people) am better.

 

[Bird123]

Why do you looking to find faults in other peoples belief and faith, when you would hate when others did that to you? Are you that insecure about yourself?

If you calling other people's faith for evil, are you any better yourself?

Should not everyone be searching for the Real Truth rather than a belief system that feels good? Is Life about feeling good or learning and growing as people? Is it really more kind to allow others to be sheltered from the Real Truth if there are flaws in those beliefs. Let's get into reality. In time, reality will prove to be better.

God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. The Learning takes Interaction, Questioning, and Being willing to widen those views to include all possibilities. This can never be accomplished hiding in a box to oneself or in a box of beliefs. Real Truth is not always a comfortable thing, however it will always lead forward to a better way.

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. How many are open to all possibilities? How many question without end? How many want to Discover more instead of accepting and being comfortable not knowing any more? We are meant to Learn, Grow, Discover, and Live it all.

How can one really live life to the fullest without a million questions just like the youngest children do. Multi-angular: even the children are teaching great lessons to all. Life has never ever been about just having it made. Life has purpose!!! The hungry student advances much quicker.

Everything about God will add up perfectly. Start thinking MATH!!! If there are flaws, they should be examined. If you really have the Real Truth, others might be unhappy because it doesn't fit their beliefs, however they will have trouble finding flaws. Let them question all they want. Discover the answers for yourself.

I welcome any comments or remarks from anyone. Come as you are. Be who you must. Things will work out better that way. WE are all meant to interact just as we are. Everyone moves forward much better that way.

Don't want to interact? God's system has a fix for that. If one avoids interaction with others long enough, one becomes lonely. You just as well jump in and learn how to swim.

Do not shelter yourself or anyone from the so called evils of the world. Learn how to deal with them then teach others how. In time, working on solutions instead of payback and revenge and those problems will start to disappear.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!