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Featured Why do you dislike Islam?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    Yes. The state of mind of a society is best revealed by how well or poorly it treats its minority and disadvantaged population. Of course every country and society is culpable and flawed to various degrees on this matter.
     
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  2. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Actually if Muslims follow Islam then there should be one leader and one state,
    that should happen as foretold by the prophet.

    The prophet foretold that Muslims will be the weakest near the end times, their
    leaders will be oppressors and they will have no freedom, the caliphate will be lost
    and it'll be divided into states, the prophet said that Islam with the power of God will return as one state and one leader, also during that time Israel will be controlling
    Jerusalem before being liberated by the Muslims.

    Actually the recent situation in the Muslim world proves that the prophet was telling the truth and not a claim, you may close your mind but
    that won't help you, it's your life and it's up to you for what you want to believe.
     
    #242 FearGod, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  3. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    Whatever.
     
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  4. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    If you're going to make this comment address it to me....

    Did you even read my posts concerning Shari'ah Law? No, you didn't. Most likely you skimmed the discussion to post this drivel. Okay I get it that you dislike Islam because of some individual terrorists nd then you additionally made the disdain of Islam because of beheadings etc...I don't see how you equate terrorist with 1.5 billion Muslims as if the rest of the Muslims are also like that. As mentioned before the Shari'ah law code is a complex system that requires careful study by scholars. It is not easily implemented as armchair scholars like yourself. There are differing rules regarding how punishment is carried out and it is simply not cut and dry. Since you are so fixated on punishment let us look at it this way. When a person is punished let's say for stealing, there are scholars like judges that examine the nature of the crime and I'm sure the defendant would declare a reason why the judges examine all factors including Quranic doctrine and I'm sure Islamic Jurisprudence comes into play and what the various schools of thought consider the nature of stealing and punishment. For some the judge may say "don't steal again," they don't simply just cut off your hand. Now grant it, this may happen in Saudi Arabia but their interpretation of punishment differs from other Muslim countries. Muslim countries are not homogenous. Their are different interpretations of Shari'ah Law. BTW Shari'ah Law only applies to Muslim, if you are Jewish and you live in a Muslim dominated country you are judged by your own laws with the exception of the laws of the land that all citizens must abide by. Sheesh man you need to study more. Then you have the nerve to mention that orange monkey Trump wwho is a bigoted racist chump ho couldn't even find his limousine coming off Air force one....LOL
     
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  5. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I certainly can't argue that Christianity still has a great deal of maturing to do, as evidenced by the KKK and White Christian Nationalists. At the same time I think that radical elements are a bit more prevalent among followers of Islam at this point in history. And there can be little doubt that a significant reason that Muslims tend to have more radical elements is a direct result of Western meddling in the governments of majority Muslim nations. Far too often it has enabled radical factions as well as governments to distort the Islamic message for political gain.

    You're absolutely correct that Muslims excelled in science during the Dark Ages, while Christians generally wallowed in ignorance. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case in the modern age.
     
  6. Kuzcotopia

    Kuzcotopia If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.

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    Whew! I am happy to know that you believe that the law should have a secular foundation, and do not believe, as the majority of Muslims do, that Apostasy should be a punishable crime. You are a moral person for that belief.

    The reason I mentioned this polling is that the majority of Muslims seem to think there should be legal punishment for non-harmful sexual actions and apostasy. I think that is bad, and to have such a consensus is kind of shameful. Something in the ideas of Islam or its culture produces these opinions, and I feel like your unable to deal with this problem directly. Instead, it's a deflection to academic interpretations and accusations of ignorance.

    The methodology and results of the PEW research center are well respected. . . And you can choose to question inconvenient data and deflect away from those results, but it should give you pause as you continue to defend. Remember, in the OP, you asked what problems people have with Islam. I gave you. good answer that you haven't yet addressed directly.

    Your link didn't validate or explain anything. Explain to me how it does.

    I also don't understand why you keep explaining that Sharia law contains more than punishments, as if I wouldn't know that. Of course it does. . .

    But . . . Yes, it also has these terrible punishments for stuff that should not be a crime, and despite the academic interpretations of your various schools of thought, the majority of Muslims polled seem wholly ignorant of those academic arguments you keep name dropping. They are advocating for immoral punishments and I'm asking you to address it as a problem with Islam.

    If you would like to admit that majority of Muslims have an incorrect interpretation of their faith, and all of them have this crucial issue of punishment wrong, then say that.

    If I'm truly ignorant of Sharia law's actual application, then so are most Muslims. Right?
     
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  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Veteran Member
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    A significant fraction, maybe a majority, of Muslims do not agree with you. As @Kuzcotopia has said, the problem here is regarding what Muslims actually believe what Islamic law entails on the ground. From the survey,

    1)Majority of Muslims in South Asia, South East Asia and Sub Saharan Africa believe Sharia should be the law of the land.

    [​IMG]

    More religious Muslims favor more
    [​IMG]

    Now consider how many of these Muslims believe stoning is the appropriate punishment for adultery
    [​IMG]

    And believe that death penalty is the correct punishment for anyone who converts from Islam

    [​IMG]

    Do you not consider the preponderance of such views among Muslims concerning?
     
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  8. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    You live right next door to me this whole time and haven't come to visit even once.
     
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  9. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Well what do you expect when you call yourself 'tumah'?

    Unsurprisingly, I haven't many guests either.
     
    #249 Rival, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  10. Mohsen

    Mohsen السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

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    If that were the case, I'd not be here would I?

    In context, the verses apply to those who have stubbornly closed their hearts to and minds and are adamant in their disbelief !

    Peace
     
  11. Mohsen

    Mohsen السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

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    You bought it up lol, and now when it becomes uncomfortable - exit strategy?

    Interesting
     
  12. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    The punishment for adultery isn't stoning and also it's very hard to accuse
    someone of doing it while 4 witnesses are needed and that is impossible
    as adultery is done in close doors or in the hide.

    That being said, the sharia law is sophisticated and not as easy as you think
    of it, it's flexible and you can't judge it while having no knowledge about it.
     
  13. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    For Sure you have read Sunni Kalam.
    This is one of the issues of debate between the Sunnis and the Shiites..
    Try to read some Shia Kalam books..
    Here are many shia books:
    Free Islamic Books by Scholars. Browse 1700+ resources | Al-Islam.org

    p.s.

    just found this article from the same site..
    i have only looked at it. it seems to reflect the shia view well, as we have many hadiths talking about the middle way..

    The Issue of Predestination and Free Will
     
    #253 Shia Islam, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As to where do you get that Trump is bigoted racist, just because Trump is sworn in to protect the American people from Terrorist , if it takes building a wall to protect our country, then I am for it.

    Trump didn't become President of our country of his own doings, it taken the American people to vote him into that office.
    Further more I have seen enough of what Muslims have done, if all the other Muslims do not approve of what other Muslims are doing,Then why are they not saying anything about it, or condemning those other Muslims that are making the rest of the muslims look foolish.

    Why can't Islam Muslims be trusted, maybe it's because in the q'uran it promotes lieing and deceving.So how is anyone to take Muslims at their word, When the Muslims q'uran promotes lieing and deceiving.
    I have read enough of the q'uran and to see how Muslims are reacting around the world in Accordance to the q'uran.

    Further more, not one Muslims country said anything nor condemn Osama bin Laden, for having those Jet planes fly into the NYC Twin Towers, where's the out cry of condemning from those other Muslims for this act, which the world look at all Muslims for this Terrorist act.

    Further more you ask in the thread, "Why do you dislike Islam"
    You never said to address it to you. If you had want the comments address to you, then you should haved said so in your thread.
    When you posted "Why do you dislike Islam"
    So I gave you my answer. If you do not like what I have given, then maybe you shouldn't ask something of people that your not going to be able to handle.
     
    #254 Faithofchristian, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  15. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    something something Romans 3:7-8 something Eusebius and Martin Luther something something beam in the eye
     
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  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    That to which you posted of Romans 3:7-8, has nothing to do with Christians, That's about the Unbelievers. Nice try though.
     
  17. Kuzcotopia

    Kuzcotopia If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.

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    Give me an example of Sharia law having more sophistication and flexibility that secular law.

    I don't mind that you claim sophistication, but you have to explain why you think it's sophisticated, or preferable to secular laws. After all, evolution and natural selection is a sophisticated concept, but not everyone buys into it because not everyone understands it.

    If you think that there is an error of understanding and ignorance, it's your responsibility to explain how, and provide specific examples.

    In what instances would Sharia be preferable to secular law? In what ways is the application of Sharia law more sophisticated and flexible than secular law in those instances?

    Anyone can answer.
     
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  18. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Have these experts got it wrong then?

    Islam: Adultery and Stoning
     
  19. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Oh--I have verses like 9:8 memorized, "Fight against the Jews and Christians, the unbelievers. Fight them until they are subdued and pay the Jizya (extortion tax) or become believers."

    Jesus instead invites people of their free will to trust in Him, no jihad needed.
     
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  20. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

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    Some more children's shows:



    This one pretty much says it all:
     
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