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Why do we see a rise in nationalism?

But the behaviour resulting from nationalism is the same as from tribalism (only on a bigger scale). And tribalism is old.

I'm still not of the opinion that they are comparable. "On a bigger scale' changes the fundamental nature of the issue.

Tribes existed to provide tangible benefits to members based on personal relationships.

Increase the scale and you are are required to focus far more on impersonal abstractions and intangibles.
 
You mean the Canton system?

That would be one form of localism.


Good Fences: The Importance of Setting Boundaries for Peaceful Coexistence
Alex Rutherford, Dion Harmon, Justin Werfel, Shlomiya Bar-Yam, Alexander Gard-Murray, Andreas Gros, Yaneer Bar-Yam
(Submitted on 6 Oct 2011)
We consider the conditions of peace and violence among ethnic groups, testing a theory designed to predict the locations of violence and interventions that can promote peace. Characterizing the model's success in predicting peace requires examples where peace prevails despite diversity. Switzerland is recognized as a country of peace, stability and prosperity. This is surprising because of its linguistic and religious diversity that in other parts of the world lead to conflict and violence. Here we analyze how peaceful stability is maintained. Our analysis shows that peace does not depend on integrated coexistence, but rather on well defined topographical and political boundaries separating groups. Mountains and lakes are an important part of the boundaries between sharply defined linguistic areas. Political canton and circle (sub-canton) boundaries often separate religious groups. Where such boundaries do not appear to be sufficient, we find that specific aspects of the population distribution either guarantee sufficient separation or sufficient mixing to inhibit intergroup violence according to the quantitative theory of conflict. In exactly one region, a porous mountain range does not adequately separate linguistic groups and violent conflict has led to the recent creation of the canton of Jura. Our analysis supports the hypothesis that violence between groups can be inhibited by physical and political boundaries. A similar analysis of the area of the former Yugoslavia shows that during widespread ethnic violence existing political boundaries did not coincide with the boundaries of distinct groups, but peace prevailed in specific areas where they did coincide. The success of peace in Switzerland may serve as a model to resolve conflict in other ethnically diverse countries and regions of the world.
Good Fences: The Importance of Setting Boundaries for Peaceful Coexistence
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It is natural reaction to globalism, crony capitalism, political sellouts, foreign aid, etc. The secondary relation is what matters as most nations practice soft-nationalism.
What would soft-nationalism be, if it did exist?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
What would soft-nationalism be, if it did exist?

Every nation places itself and it's citizens first, and maintains it's sovereignty. That is soft-nationalism or civic nationalism if people are treated equal under the law.. Remove the idea from your mind that nationalism is only of the Nazi type.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Every nation places itself and it's citizens first, and maintains it's sovereignty. That is soft-nationalism or civic nationalism if people are treated equal under the law.. Remove the idea from your mind that nationalism is only of the Nazi type.
That is just a dangerous fiction that deserves nothing but destruction at sight.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
Why do "we" (you) see a rise in nationalism?

That's (ones experiances) a matter of kamma-vipaka, thoughts, speech, deeds, such as taking side and engaging in politic...
 

Shad

Veteran Member
That is just a dangerous fiction that deserves nothing but destruction at sight.

Wrong. Look up civic nationalism and try again. More so look at the world. Do you taxes go to your nation or another nation as the majority of spending? Does your nation maintain it's sovereignty or does it let anyone carve up it's territory at will? You think reality is a fiction. Hilarious.

Nationalism - Wikipedia
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Wrong. Look up civic nationalism and try again. More so look at the world. Do you taxes go to your nation or another nation as the majority of spending? Does your nation maintain it's sovereignty or does it let anyone carve up it's territory at will? You think reality is a fiction. Hilarious.

Nationalism - Wikipedia
Sovereignity is nothing but fiction shaped into an attempt at sustaining egocentric discourse.

It is pure venon.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Sovereignity is nothing but fiction shaped into an attempt at sustaining egocentric discourse.

Okay there.... This is based on what exactly? Other than you throwing words at it. Every nation on the planet practices it.

It is pure venon.

Hardly. You are just stuck in an ideological mindtrap. Try carving out an area in your nation and see what the government does.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Okay there.... This is based on what exactly? Other than you throwing words at it. Every nation on the planet practices it.

Most nations invoke the word. That does not make it meaningful, and does not make its use sane.

Hardly. You are just stuck in an ideological mindtrap. Try carving out an area in your nation and see what the government does.

What do you think spurred me into that conclusion in the first place?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I am not using a nation or it's leaders as the source of a definition.





An ideology that is divorced from reality
We will have to agree to disagree, apparently.

Nationalism is not something that I do, encourage or respect.

Sovereignity is not a concept that I find either useful or respectable, either.

That is pretty much how things are. You may try to convince me otherwise, I suppose. Others have tried. Others will probably try at some point in the future.

But things (and concepts) keep being what they are.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
We will have to agree to disagree, apparently.

Nationalism is not something that I do, encourage or respect.

You need to look up civic nationalism.

Sovereignity is not a concept that I find either useful or respectable, either.

Yet this is how the world is and will be for a long time
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
What's extreme about it?
There are extremists but I've noticed that nationalism itself is now being treated as some horrible thing across the board. News channels are spreading misinformation about it. We wouldn't even have countries without nationalism. Most of it is not extremist at all. The only harmful types of it are ultranationalism that has transformed into chauvinism or things like racial nationalism that seeks to remove the rights of people. But the form of nationalism that is just about putting the needs of your country first and maintaining traditions and sovereignty are quite healthy in my book. I would call myself that sort of nationalist. Tribalism gets an overblown bad rap, too.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
There are extremists but I've noticed that nationalism itself is now being treated as some horrible thing across the board. News channels are spreading misinformation about it. We wouldn't even have countries without nationalism. Most of it is not extremist at all. The only harmful types of it are ultranationalism that has transformed into chauvinism or things like racial nationalism that seeks to remove the rights of people. But the form of nationalism that is just about putting the needs of your country first and maintaining traditions and sovereignty are quite healthy in my book. I would call myself that sort of nationalist. Tribalism gets an overblown bad rap, too.

Toss in ethnic nationalism. Malaysia is a current example. Malay get benefits that non-Malay do not.
 
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