Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Why do we know so little about Jesus?
Jesus chose his disciples from working men with no background as writers, or of education in the law or religion.
Working from the premises that Jesus was the Son of God, It would seem that this choice was no accident.
It would also seem self evident that this choice would have ramifications in how his teachings were to be spread after his death.
It might be asked who were aware of his teachings during his life time?
Obviously there were his chosen disciples; added to this were his retinue which included women folk, especially Mary Magdalene.
There was also the multitude that he spoke to; though individually they probably each remembered only one or two parables or instances of minor miracles.
There were also a number of his detractors, mostly religious leaders sent from the Temple to discredit him.
Apart from words that might have been recorded as evidence by his detractors very little, if anything he said, would have been written down.
Had he chosen his Disciples differently it might have been very different; a written record of his doings, sayings and teachings could have been recorded for posterity.
The Parable was his prime method of teaching; it is the easiest to remember and to retell, so that the meaning, though not necessarily the words, remains unaltered.
This way at a time with out books, these thoughts and teachings can be spread rapidly through out a population, educated or otherwise.
Had the words been written down at this time they would have been vulnerable to destruction and loss.
Undoubtedly many of his words were lost before it became safe to commit the remembered teachings to a written form.
It was at this stage that problems of authenticity arose, and also undoubtedly some wrong choices were made. It was a very difficult task to collate everything that had survived into a coherent form.
Gathering the words of Paul, which were conveniently recorded in his epistles was a comparative easy task.
Jesus teachings seem to be of two general types; those that followed and promoted traditional Jewish thought, and those that brought something new, or readdressed traditional teachings to give them a new understanding.
I surmise it would be safer to attribute to Jesus the new and changed teachings as true records of his thoughts, than it would be the traditional ones which every one knew anyway.
By the time they were collated, they had undergone some alteration and selection to be more acceptable to both Greek and Roman society and expectations.
For instance to be acceptable to the Roman Emperor, Jesus had changed from being portrayed as a poor man who has come to serve and save man, into a Prince in Majesty. This change process can be seen recorded in both the catacombs and surviving building decoration in Rome.
What then are new and reinforced messages that Jesus brought to us?
That God is love
That God will always forgive those that repent.
That Jesus referred to God as his Father.
That we should be baptised
That we should remember him in Bread and wine as at the last supper.
The Lords Prayer.
The Beatitudes.
That he was Crucified, as God ordained.
That we should do as he taught us.
That we should learn from his parables how to live our lives and behave towards others.
All these new things changed our perceptions of God, from one full of vengeance and wrath to one of love and caring and mercy.
Continued........
The Church, which eventually became formalised through the power of Rome; expanded and rationalised the new Christian Religion with its forerunner the Jewish Faith, by intertwining the old prophecies with the events of Jesus life. In the process the Bible was formed and selected from all the known religious writings.
Writings from many sources were discarded and many destroyed, including those from the ancient Gnostic sects who undoubtedly saw their own beliefs reflected in the teachings of Jesus.
What has come down to us undoubtedly includes much of what Jesus wanted us to understand about God.
It also includes a great deal that has been written by men trying to justify what they already believed, or could rationalise as true from earlier beliefs and writings.
Most of these added beliefs and rationalisations are not primary to be a Christian.
They pose some important but open questions
Was Mary a virgin?
Was Jesus literally the son of God?
Is the Trinity a fact or a rationalisation?
Did Jesus Die and Rise again?
Is the Bible the literal word of God?
Some questions are even more vague
Is the commandment to take the bread and wine in the communion any more than a remembrance?
What is Sin?
Will there be a tribulation?
Will we all rise from the dead at the last trumpet?
What is Hell?
All these questions and more were never addressed by Jesus
Nor were they concepts likely to have been, or capable of being considered by his disciples.
They are all thoughts, beliefs and constructs that have been added to Christianity over time, in answer to genuine questions.
If it was sufficient for Jesus disciples, neither to know of, nor question these ideas, they can not be fundamental to Christianity, nor to the concept of Jesus son of God.
If Christianity is true, what does that say of other beliefs?
There is probably some truth in all religions
However some have problems that are hard to rationalise.
This is particularly the case where a religion claims to have the whole, complete and written truth for all time.
I started by saying that Jesus chose Disciples who would not write down his words, and he chose to do much of his teachings in parables.
Parables have some distinct advantages over other forms of communication.
They do not lose their meaning on translation or being passed through different civilisations, they are easily remembered, they do not rely on an exact reproduction to carry the original message. They are not changed by time or advancement in civilisation.
The teachings and instructions Jesus left us are not a list of dos and donts. As such they would be very incomplete. They are far more an ethos and a way to live our lives by following his example. They give a pattern to follow not a set of rules.
The exact opposite would be to rely on the written word, which like all language changes its meaning over time. Nor are words easily applicable to new situations or changes in civilisations. Such a message not only becomes fixed in time, but ossifies any civilisation that accepts it as a permanent truth It is not a likely choice for God to communicate down the ages.
Jesus left us with all we need to know to be a Christian.
Discuss.....
Jesus chose his disciples from working men with no background as writers, or of education in the law or religion.
Working from the premises that Jesus was the Son of God, It would seem that this choice was no accident.
It would also seem self evident that this choice would have ramifications in how his teachings were to be spread after his death.
It might be asked who were aware of his teachings during his life time?
Obviously there were his chosen disciples; added to this were his retinue which included women folk, especially Mary Magdalene.
There was also the multitude that he spoke to; though individually they probably each remembered only one or two parables or instances of minor miracles.
There were also a number of his detractors, mostly religious leaders sent from the Temple to discredit him.
Apart from words that might have been recorded as evidence by his detractors very little, if anything he said, would have been written down.
Had he chosen his Disciples differently it might have been very different; a written record of his doings, sayings and teachings could have been recorded for posterity.
The Parable was his prime method of teaching; it is the easiest to remember and to retell, so that the meaning, though not necessarily the words, remains unaltered.
This way at a time with out books, these thoughts and teachings can be spread rapidly through out a population, educated or otherwise.
Had the words been written down at this time they would have been vulnerable to destruction and loss.
Undoubtedly many of his words were lost before it became safe to commit the remembered teachings to a written form.
It was at this stage that problems of authenticity arose, and also undoubtedly some wrong choices were made. It was a very difficult task to collate everything that had survived into a coherent form.
Gathering the words of Paul, which were conveniently recorded in his epistles was a comparative easy task.
Jesus teachings seem to be of two general types; those that followed and promoted traditional Jewish thought, and those that brought something new, or readdressed traditional teachings to give them a new understanding.
I surmise it would be safer to attribute to Jesus the new and changed teachings as true records of his thoughts, than it would be the traditional ones which every one knew anyway.
By the time they were collated, they had undergone some alteration and selection to be more acceptable to both Greek and Roman society and expectations.
For instance to be acceptable to the Roman Emperor, Jesus had changed from being portrayed as a poor man who has come to serve and save man, into a Prince in Majesty. This change process can be seen recorded in both the catacombs and surviving building decoration in Rome.
What then are new and reinforced messages that Jesus brought to us?
That God is love
That God will always forgive those that repent.
That Jesus referred to God as his Father.
That we should be baptised
That we should remember him in Bread and wine as at the last supper.
The Lords Prayer.
The Beatitudes.
That he was Crucified, as God ordained.
That we should do as he taught us.
That we should learn from his parables how to live our lives and behave towards others.
All these new things changed our perceptions of God, from one full of vengeance and wrath to one of love and caring and mercy.
Continued........
The Church, which eventually became formalised through the power of Rome; expanded and rationalised the new Christian Religion with its forerunner the Jewish Faith, by intertwining the old prophecies with the events of Jesus life. In the process the Bible was formed and selected from all the known religious writings.
Writings from many sources were discarded and many destroyed, including those from the ancient Gnostic sects who undoubtedly saw their own beliefs reflected in the teachings of Jesus.
What has come down to us undoubtedly includes much of what Jesus wanted us to understand about God.
It also includes a great deal that has been written by men trying to justify what they already believed, or could rationalise as true from earlier beliefs and writings.
Most of these added beliefs and rationalisations are not primary to be a Christian.
They pose some important but open questions
Was Mary a virgin?
Was Jesus literally the son of God?
Is the Trinity a fact or a rationalisation?
Did Jesus Die and Rise again?
Is the Bible the literal word of God?
Some questions are even more vague
Is the commandment to take the bread and wine in the communion any more than a remembrance?
What is Sin?
Will there be a tribulation?
Will we all rise from the dead at the last trumpet?
What is Hell?
All these questions and more were never addressed by Jesus
Nor were they concepts likely to have been, or capable of being considered by his disciples.
They are all thoughts, beliefs and constructs that have been added to Christianity over time, in answer to genuine questions.
If it was sufficient for Jesus disciples, neither to know of, nor question these ideas, they can not be fundamental to Christianity, nor to the concept of Jesus son of God.
If Christianity is true, what does that say of other beliefs?
There is probably some truth in all religions
However some have problems that are hard to rationalise.
This is particularly the case where a religion claims to have the whole, complete and written truth for all time.
I started by saying that Jesus chose Disciples who would not write down his words, and he chose to do much of his teachings in parables.
Parables have some distinct advantages over other forms of communication.
They do not lose their meaning on translation or being passed through different civilisations, they are easily remembered, they do not rely on an exact reproduction to carry the original message. They are not changed by time or advancement in civilisation.
The teachings and instructions Jesus left us are not a list of dos and donts. As such they would be very incomplete. They are far more an ethos and a way to live our lives by following his example. They give a pattern to follow not a set of rules.
The exact opposite would be to rely on the written word, which like all language changes its meaning over time. Nor are words easily applicable to new situations or changes in civilisations. Such a message not only becomes fixed in time, but ossifies any civilisation that accepts it as a permanent truth It is not a likely choice for God to communicate down the ages.
Jesus left us with all we need to know to be a Christian.
Discuss.....
