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Why do the majority moderate allow the extremist Islamic majority to control them?

Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
Well, I am sure some of them are cowards, like you suggest, but not all of them.
Why does it make them cowards to want to live peaceably? Did no one learn anything from the Irish? To oppose is to start a war in your own neighborhood and put everyone at risk. That is what police forces are for - opposing the violent.
 

Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
Actually, it is similar to a person living in China standing up and making comments about Chinese government policy. People do and are somewhat free to speak their minds however there can be a great cost for doing so.
And just look at how Tienamen Square has changed China....
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Why does it make them cowards to want to live peaceably? Did no one learn anything from the Irish? To oppose is to start a war in your own neighborhood and put everyone at risk. That is what police forces are for - opposing the violent.

"Why does it make them cowards to want to live peaceably? "

That is a spin. People are giving into terrorism, no matter how you want to paint it. Yes, there is risk involved, but yielding to terrorism is not the answers. These people strap bombs to their chest and fly planes into buildings. Ignoring them, and giving in, is only going to make things worst, not better.

You talk about putting everyone at risk, well ignoring them is putting everyone at risk. They flew a damn plan into the Twin Towers, full of innocent people who never wronged them, and they just killed them all. They kill innocents all the time and they don't care if you are "living peacefully".
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
and you wonder why the muslim world hates the west?

If what we are doing in the middle is terrorism then stuff them, they can sort themselves out.

Like i said in another thread, why are muslims so critical of the west for trying to help when they themselves are doing nothing?
 

ayani

member
If what we are doing in the middle is terrorism then stuff them, they can sort themselves out.

Like i said in another thread, why are muslims so critical of the west for trying to help when they themselves are doing nothing?

because they don't want help, and many don't see Western secular democratic values as "helping" their societies. in Islam, politics and religion are ideally united, with Islamic law ruling the country, and governing every aspect of citizens' lives. this is seen by many Muslims as ideal, good, better for mankind than a secular alternative, and most importantly what Allah wants them to do and knows is best for them.
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
because they don't want help, and many don't see Western secular democratic values as "helping" their societies. in Islam, politics and religion are ideally united, with Islamic law ruling the country, and governing every aspect of citizens' lives. this is seen by many Muslims as ideal, good, better for mankind than a secular alternative, and most importantly what Allah wants them to do and knows is best for them.

People need to keep in mind that many nations, (including the US) have been the target of several terrorist attacks by al-Qaeda, resulting in thousands of deaths of non-combative citizens. The War on Terrorism is not about "helping" their society, it is about stopping al-Qaeda.

Terrorist Acts Suspected of or Inspired by al-Qaeda

  • 1993 (Feb.): Bombing of World Trade Center (WTC); 6 killed.
  • 1993 (Oct.): Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.
  • 1996 (June): Truck bombing at Khobar Towers barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killed 19 Americans.
  • 1998 (Aug.): Bombing of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania; 224 killed, including 12 Americans.
  • 1999 (Dec.): Plot to bomb millennium celebrations in Seattle foiled when customs agents arrest an Algerian smuggling explosives into the U.S.
  • 2000 (Oct.): Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.
  • 2001 (Sept.): Destruction of WTC; attack on Pentagon. Total dead 2,992.
  • 2001 (Dec.): Man tried to denote shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.
  • 2002 (April): Explosion at historic synagogue in Tunisia left 21 dead, including 11 German tourists.
  • 2002 (May): Car exploded outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.
  • 2002 (June): Bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.
  • 2002 (Oct.): Boat crashed into oil tanker off Yemen coast, killing 1.
  • 2002 (Oct.): Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, killed 202, mostly Australian citizens.
  • 2002 (Nov.): Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, killed 16.
  • 2003 (May): Suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
  • 2003 (May): 4 bombs killed 33 people targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.
  • 2003 (Aug.): Suicide car-bomb killed 12, injured 150 at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
  • 2003 (Nov.): Explosions rocked a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, housing compound, killing 17.
  • 2003 (Nov.): Suicide car-bombers simultaneously attacked 2 synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds.
  • 2003 (Nov.): Truck bombs detonated at London bank and British consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 26.
  • 2004 (March): 10 bombs on 4 trains exploded almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 191 and injuring more than 1,500.
  • 2004 (May): Terrorists attacked Saudi oil company offices in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 22.
  • 2004 (June): Terrorists kidnapped and executed American Paul Johnson, Jr., in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
  • 2004 (Sept.): Car bomb outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, killed 9.
  • 2004 (Dec.): Terrorists entered the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 9 (including 4 attackers).
  • 2005 (July): Bombs exploded on 3 trains and a bus in London, England, killing 52.
  • 2005 (Oct.): 22 killed by 3 suicide bombs in Bali, Indonesia.
  • 2005 (Nov.): 57 killed at 3 American hotels in Amman, Jordan.
  • 2006 (Jan.): Two suicide bombers carrying police badges blow themselves up near a celebration at the Police Academy in Baghdad, killing nearly 20 police officers. Al-Qaeda in Iraq takes responsibility.
  • 2006 (Aug.): Police arrest 24 British-born Muslims, most of whom have ties to Pakistan, who had allegedly plotted to blow up as many as 10 planes using liquid explosives. Officials say details of the plan were similar to other schemes devised by al-Qaeda.
  • 2007 (April): Suicide bombers attack a government building in Algeria's capital, Algiers, killing 35 and wounding hundreds more. Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb claims responsibility.
  • 2007 (April): Eight people, including two Iraqi legislators, die when a suicide bomber strikes inside the Parliament building in Baghdad. An organization that includes al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia claims responsibility. In another attack, the Sarafiya Bridge that spans the Tigris River is destroyed.
  • 2007 (June): British police find car bombs in two vehicles in London. The attackers reportedly tried to detonate the bombs using cell phones but failed. Government officials say al-Qaeda is linked to the attempted attack. The following day, an SUV carrying bombs bursts into flames after it slams into an entrance to Glasgow Airport. Officials say the attacks are connected.
  • 2007 (December): As many as 60 people are killed in two suicide attacks near United Nations offices and government buildings in Algiers, Algeria. The bombings occur within minutes of each other. Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, formerly called the Salafist Group for Preaching, claims responsibility. It's the worst attack in the Algeria in more than 10 years.
  • 2008 (January): In the worst attack in Iraq in months, a suicide bomber kills 30 people at a home where mourners were paying their respects to the family of a man killed in a car bomb. The Iraqi military blames the attack on al-Qaeda in Iraq.
  • 2008 (February): Nearly 100 people die when two women suicide bombers, who are believed to be mentally impaired, attack crowded pet markets in eastern Baghdad. The U.S. military says al-Qaeda in Iraq has been recruiting female patients at psychiatric hospitals to become suicide bombers.
  • 2008 (April): A suicide bomber attacks the funeral for two nephews of a prominent Sunni tribal leader, Sheik Kareem Kamil al-Azawi, killing 30 people in Iraq's Diyala Province.
  • 2008 (April): A suicide car bomber kills 40 people in Baquba, the capital of Diyala Province in Iraq.
  • 2008 (April): Thirty-five people die and 62 are injured when a woman detonates explosives that she was carrying under her dress in a busy shopping district in Iraq’s Diyala Province.
  • 2008 (May): At least 12 worshipers are killed and 44 more injured when a bomb explodes in the Bin Salman mosque near Sana, Yemen.
  • 2008 (May): An al-Qaeda suicide bomber detonates explosives in Hit, a city in the Anbar Province of Iraq, killing six policemen and four civilians, and injuring 12 other people.
  • 2008 (June): A car bomb explodes outside the Danish Embassy in Pakistan, killing six people and injuring dozens. Al-Qaeda claims responsibility, saying the attack was retaliation for the 2006 publication of political cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten that depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
  • 2008 (June): A female suicide bomber kills 15 and wounds 40 others, including seven Iraqi policemen, near a courthouse in Baquba, Iraq.
  • 2008 (June): A suicide bomber kills at least 20 people at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.
  • 2008 (August): About two dozens worshippers are killed in three separate attacks as they make their way toward Karbala to celebrate the birthday of 9th-century imam Muhammad al-Mahdi. Iraqi officials blame al-Qaeda in Iraq for the attacks.
  • 2008 (August): A bomb left on the street explodes and tears through a bus carrying Lebanese troops, killing 15 people, nine of them soldiers. No one claims responsibility for the attack, but in 2007, the army fought an al-Qaeda linked Islamist group in Tripoli.
  • 2008 (August): At least 43 people are killed when a suicide bomber drives an explosives-laden car into a police academy in Issers, a town in northern Algeria.
  • 2008 (August): Two car bombs explode at a military command and a hotel in Bouira, killing a dozen people. No group takes responsibility for either attack, Algerian officials said they suspect al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is behind the bombings.
  • 2008 (September): In its first acknowledged ground attack inside Pakistan, U.S. commandos raid a village that is home to al-Qaeda militants in the tribal region near the border with Afghanistan. The number of casualties is unclear.
  • 2008 (September): A car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.
  • 2008 (November): at least 28 people die and over 60 more are injured when three bombs explode minutes apart in Baghdad, Iraq. Officials suspect the explosions are linked to al-Qaeda.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884893.html
 
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Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
"Why does it make them cowards to want to live peaceably? "

That is a spin. People are giving into terrorism, no matter how you want to paint it. They kill innocents all the time and they don't care if you are "living peacefully".
Again, what has that to do with me? What would Gandhi do? What would Jesus do? What would any peace-loving spiritual leader do? Visible non-violence has always proven to be more powerful than violence in the end.
 

Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
Originally Posted by ayani
they know the risks of publically speaking up against these kinds of people, and many are dismayed and heart-broken in near-silence for the safety of themselves and loved ones. many don't consider it worth the risk or effort, even if they wanted to, and so do their best to live Islam peacefully and kindly, and perhaps to speak out on-line. to live out Islam as they wish to see it lived out, as a lifestyle witness, instead of actively taking on the extremists themselves.
Originally Posted by Jeremiah
Well, I am sure some of them are cowards, like you suggest, but not all of them.
Originally Posted by YmirGF
Actually, it is similar to a person living in China standing up and making comments about Chinese government policy. People do and are somewhat free to speak their minds however there can be a great cost for doing so.
Originally Posted by Cobblestones
And just look at how Tienamen Square has changed China....
Um... what has changed? Did I miss something?
That was my point. I was supporting Ayani's position with a glaring reality.
 

Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.
Benjamin Franklin - the guy who spent the Revolutionary War living it up among the aristocrats in France, whoring, living beyond his means, subverting his American co-ambassador and doing just about everything that his little proverbs warned against. Not a guy I would look to for advice or supporting my position.
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Again, what has that to do with me? What would Gandhi do? What would Jesus do? What would any peace-loving spiritual leader do? Visible non-violence has always proven to be more powerful than violence in the end.

Did I say anything thing about violence? You ask what would Gandhi would do? Well, he certainly wouldn't just sit around and let it happen. Gandhi would stand up to evil, following the teaching of Jesus Christ, as he did in his life. It is so stupid that you would even mention Gandhi in that context, this a man who continued forward as they beat him, imprisoned him and killed his country men. The non-violent philosophy is not one of rolling over in a ball and "living peacefully". Turn the other cheek, as Gandhi interpreted it, meant to face the evil and not turn away from it.

Gandhi's main weapons were his voice, his journal (newspaper) and his public protesting. These weapon need to be more employed against terrorism.
 
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Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Benjamin Franklin - the guy who spent the Revolutionary War living it up among the aristocrats in France, whoring, living beyond his means, subverting his American co-ambassador and doing just about everything that his little proverbs warned against. Not a guy I would look to for advice or supporting my position.

It is a good point regardless who said it.
 

AFRICAN

Member
If by anti-semitic you mean anti-Zionist then I absolutely have no problem with it. If by anti-US you mean against the US government and its terrorism, I absolutely have no problem with it. If by Jihad you mean fighting against Zionist and American occupation of the Islamic countries, I am all for it.
I don't know about the violent groups there in the Western world but I know about them here and I know also that they are being fought by the scholars and the governments.
After all, your media love the "violent" and the "extremist" more.

Well Said Sister ..
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
not4me ~

we are also talking about those extremist Muslims who call for the deaths of non-Muslims on nearly any grounds, who support acts of terrorism against non-combatants around the world to make a point about Islamic values and politics, who advocate for more violent and capitol readings and implementations of the Quran and sunnah, etc.

we are also talking about people with views like this:

Anjem Choudary on the Automatic non-Innocence of non-Muslims
This is exactly a link that shows what the Western media want their people to see.

I wanted to make it clear that we don't agree on who is the terrorist and the extremist.
The Palestinian or the Lebanese who fight against the Zionists are not terrorists at least according to a good sector of Arabs and Muslims. Who fight the American occupation in Iraq or Afghanistan is not a terrorist. But to many Westerners if not the most, resisting Zionists and Americans is terrorism.
Of course, there are violent groups that attack innocent civilians like what happens in Iraq...etc, I think no Muslim will clap for them except a deviated one.
The anger and hatred against the West, it's expected and not surprising. As for violence against the Western civilians in their own countries, it's denounced by the Muslim organizations there and here and by the Muslims scholars and Muslims in general.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
"
You talk about putting everyone at risk, well ignoring them is putting everyone at risk. They flew a damn plan into the Twin Towers, full of innocent people who never wronged them, and they just killed them all. They kill innocents all the time and they don't care if you are "living peacefully".


If u dont attack them back,they bomb you again and again,as they are doing in India for example.
 
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