For instance? Can you give me one or two examples?
No problem at all. Here are some really obvious ones.
Rape - in what instance would you say that a woman (or man) who has been raped is unable to forgive their rapist simply because they are unable to "forgive themselves?" If the person does not, within their lives, commit as grievous a "sin" (what a stupid word) as rape, then how are they to even be expected to comprehend the "mistakes" made by their attacker? In what way would "forgiving themselves" (for WHAT, by the way?) help them to forgive their rapist? It doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Let's say they really wanted to forgive their rapist - because their principles, or those around them are instructing them that this is necessary (which it isn't, by the way) - can you seriously claim that, if they are unable to forgive the wrong against them, that what is holding them back is that they cannot forgive
themselves? Whatever it is they "need" to forgive themselves for is
completely unrelated to the rape. I dare you to try and claim otherwise. Especially given that you know nothing about any potential things they "need" to forgive themselves for.
Murder - In this case, those that are left are the ones grieving, and again here, I am sure there are plenty of parents, brothers, sisters, loved ones of any kind who simply adored the person murdered, and loved the vast majority of time spent with that person. If they are unable to forgive the murderer for forcefully removing this person from their lives, what could it possibly be within themselves that they first need to forgive to make that possible? And again, there is no actual requirement that anyone forgive someone who murdered their loved one. None whatsoever. So, IF the person wishes to forgive the murderer, but find themselves unable - you're saying that if they just forgive themselves for "something" that they can then forgive the murderer with greater ease? So, if they forgive themselves for all those parking tickets they have racked up... or they forgive themselves for all that ice cream they ate that put on a couple pounds, then they'll be able to forgive
MURDER? This is what I am not getting. There can (and has most definitely) exist a HUGE disparity between the worst someone has committed in their lives versus the worst that is committed against them. If someone can't forgive someone else for being a huge douche, what is it, do you feel, that should compel them to do so?
It's not worthless. It's the truth. How can someone forgive another, if they are unable to forgive themselves? I am speaking of true, genuine forgiveness. I do not mean, "I'll give you a pass this time". That's not forgiveness. You can forgive someone, even if they are unrepentant. I'm talking true forgiveness, which is unconditional.
I think you're talking more about letting something go, and not obsessing about it. You're not talking about forgiveness necessarily. REMEMBERING a bad experience and holding onto the idea that you don't ever want to experience that crap again is NOT something bad. Bad would be letting fear, anxiety or anger over that thing rule over your life and take up vast amounts of your time - leaving you neglecting other things, responsibilities and people. However, holding onto the memory of the person or thing that has caused you such grief, and using that knowledge to treat future events/situations accordingly in order to avoid more of the same is just practicality at work. And so... one DOES NOT need to forgive. They can let it go, and not concentrate on it so fiercely, and that allows them to go on about healthy behaviors in life... but that is entirely separate from this idea of "forgiveness" - which again, does not need to happen.
Okay, so now, when I say you cannot truly forgive someone unless you are able to do that for yourself, is because if you can't forgive yourself for your own shortfalls, where do you think that forgiveness to forgive others is going to come from? If you cannot accept your own sins and hold them with forgiveness towards yourself, you truly cannot accept them in others either. You judge others, as you judge yourself. Likewise, you love others as you love yourself.
Once again - keeping mental note of people's shortfalls is a measure of practicality. You can "forgive" various instances of their poor behavior, but you had better bet you are going to remember that they do this thing (whatever it is), and you are going to work to avoid it. This is you, holding on to your animosity against the behavior. And remembering that a particular person is a frequent perpetrator is you holding that opinion of them in spite of forgiving them for past transgressions. In other words - I would argue you have NEVER fully forgiven them anyway. Avoidance of situations is you admitting that you know this person all too well to let them hit you with their bad behaviors again... it is you admitting that you hold something - however small - against them. You are predisposed to treat them in a certain way, different from others who are not perpetrators of the same. Again - this is just practicality. And denying this is just plain dumb. We all do it.
It's really not magical at all. It's kind of common sense, once you look beneath the covers a little bit and rummage around in there.
Statements like this are so
goofy. "look beneath the covers a little bit and rummage around in there." Can you imagine if your psychologist gave you this as a prescription for mental health? Can you? Ridiculous.
I have no idea what this fictitious scenario is, but it's not about "humming appreciation for the wisdom to one another". It's about basic human empathy.
It's really not. It is all about making some pithy little statement with only the vague hope that it holds any truth.
If we hold ourselves in disdain, we will do the same to others.
There are plenty of cases in which this is not true. Try anyone who idolizes someone else (or even a whole group or type of people) while simultaneously holding themselves in low regard. This type of thing happens all the time. Seriously... constantly. Try high school for some examples. Kids envying the jocks or the "cool kids" and feeling bad about themselves. You can most certainly hold yourself in low regard and yet hold others up on a pedestal.
Someone who criticizes others for all their faults, do fifty times that much to themselves first. That's why they are doing it to others, to try to take some of that constant self-attacking they are doing beneath the covers, and distract themselves by seeing others flaws instead.
This may be anecdotally true, but myself as an example - I criticize people's beliefs and attitudes all the time, and yet I am
not sitting around lamenting my own choices of belief or my own disposition/attitude. Not even close. This is the problem with hyperbolic statements - they make you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about to anyone who knows of cases that shatter your proposed "mold" to pieces.
Everything I am saying is coming from my own experiences.
Yeah, and your experiences are not "the world."
These are not theoretical ideas.
You're right - they're not. They are
even less than that.
I'm simply trying to explain what I have realized the deeper beneath the covers we go. This is reality.
Correcting your last sentence here:
This is false bravado.