Why Do Some Doubt The Deity of Christ?

[Feathers in Hair]

One poster asked the following dumb question,

*blinks* Wow. I didn't think it was possible to destroy any and all credibility you'd attempted to establish in one single sentence. I should have known better.

This is ridiculas.

Dismissing a moderator with a valid question as having asked a 'dumb' one, especially when one does not even bother to spell-check?

I'll say so.

Don't make any more personal attacks. They don't help your cause, they don't make you look kind, and they really get people angry.

 

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

How ridiculas, the Bible is the ultimate standard given to us for our direction by God (YHWH) himself, no other authority is necessary as it is the best authority of all.

Some posters are obviously ignorant of the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman, but that is their problem and not mine. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.



To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.

Also, I have no intention of argueing over the word virgin as Matthew 1:18-25 clearly shows Mary to have been a women that had not had relations with anyone until after jesus (Yeshua) was born, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us. 24 And Joseph arose fom his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS." (American Standard Version; ASV).

It is clear that those making these foolish statements have not read the articles at:

Creation, the Wonderful Things of God:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388168&messageid=1108233348&lp=1108233952

and,

Discourse on Salvation;

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388172&messageid=1108235125&lp=1108235295

and,

Bible Canon & Bible Data

http://www.network54.com/Forum/388559

and,

Trinity, the Facts

http://www.network54.com/Forum/388928

and,

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382158&lp=1108382158

and,

Civilization & the Bible

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382063&lp=1108382063

and,

Details on Bible Canon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108381517&lp=1108381780

and,

THE ACCOUNTS OF THE GENEALOGIES OF JESUS (YESHUA) CHRIST:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/390732

and,

The Ransome

http://www.network54.com/Forum/389818

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[michel]

My first instinct, whenever I see the title of the thread is, I don't know, why should they?
I realize though that that is a simplistic and very subjective reply.
Whilst looking through the reams on this subject, I noticed a 'scratched record theme' from Deut's frequent 'Prove it'.
Deut, Prove that the sun is in the sky.

 

[Melody]

I am rather curious about something.

Iris stated that she placed her post in a Christian forum and not the debate forum and that she is not interested in debating. Who moved the post to a debate forum and why? Is this something we have to worry about...posting in a non-debate forum and having our posts moved to where it can be attacked?

Also, I agree that Iris slipped when she called someone "dumb" but how does that destroy her credibility any more than others on here who have been fairly rude in their posts to her?

I'm no expert but it appears that Iris is giving plenty of sources, but other than attacks, I have not seen one reason why her sources are being disputed other than vague slurs on them. For those of us looking to be enlightened, please choose one of her arguments/sources and explain why you disagree...otherwise it just looks like more Christian bashing.

 

[true blood]

Many ask about evidence this and evidence that and it gets me thinking WHAT kind of evidence are you looking for? Suppose we all witnessed a great act by God, name any, what type of evidence would there be? Had we been able to wire tap Moses before he went upon the mountain or set up some video or anything to try to prove God. What if we did capture the "Voice of God" or recorded some angels chit chat and got some fingerprints, what then? Would this data stand as offical evidence? Get real peeps and drop the "evidence" bull.

 

[Scott1]

I am rather curious about something.

Iris stated that she placed her post in a Christian forum and not the debate forum and that she is not interested in debating. Who moved the post to a debate forum and why? Is this something we have to worry about...posting in a non-debate forum and having our posts moved to where it can be attacked?

It probably was me Melody..... I moved the thread when Iris RESPONDED to the debate.... I will ususally delete posts if the original author sends me a PM, but when she started in on her end of the debate.... I moved it.

If you ever post something in a non-debate forum, and someone responds with something you feel is trying to start a debate, just hit the report button and inform a Moderator.... we'll delete the post and send a PM to the member telling them it was the wrong forum for a debate...... but if you start posting back to that person and it becomes a debate, well, be prepared to have it moved.

Hope that clears things up.
Scott

 

[Ceridwen018]

Many ask about evidence this and evidence that and it gets me thinking WHAT kind of evidence are you looking for?

True blood,

It seems to stand as a pretty consistent idea that hard evidence for revealed faith is not possible. The call for evidence, in my opinion, stems from the seeming wealth of it. When people imply that such and such a question is "ridiculous" the asker then assumes that there must be some sort of logical explanation that they are missing.

the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes.

Actually, Zeus inspired Homer to write the Illiad and the Odyssey, and Allah inspired Muhammed to write the Qran.

Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet.

What about all of the religious texts that came before the bible? For instance, the legend of Mithra-- Mithra supposedly sent his son to earth to mingle with the people, who then killed him and drank his blood. The Vatican actually addressed this strikling similarity in the Middle Ages. The Pope concluded that Satan must have sent demons back in time to write a story similar to that of Jesus, to the affect that the Lord's followers would be easily tempted away from the gospel in later years. Do you believe that, iris?

and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name

iris, with all due respect--the reason why people here do not simply roll over and accept something such as this on the sole basis of, "that's what it says in the bible!", is because you have no evidence for such things, and can provide nothing to back up your own claims besides your faith and the faith of others. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I sense frustration in your posts, and I hope that this will clarify. I am not going to ask you for evidence, because I know you cannot give any.

 

[painted wolf]

ok, I'll over look the 'dumb' comment. I realize that I'm asking difficult quetions about a personal subject and that definatly causes stress. However, I feel my questions are perfectly valid, they are after all the source of my doubt.

Iris you say the bible is the authority of god, because god dictated the bible. Well, my people also feel that thier religion comes from god and that god spoke and still speaks to us. My faith is also not the product of a committee or strongman but devine revalation to the people. We don't have any holy books because we never needed them, god still speaks to us and our past is alive in our people and history keepers.

Some complain that I somehow slur your faith by not accepting it as Holy Truth. Are you not doing the same to me by saying that mine are Lies? My religion accepts that God talked/talks to other peoples in othe parts of the world. Afterall why would god single out a small group and ignore the rest of his creation?

There have been clames that Jesus was "the only" child of god, because it says so in the bible. That the bible is the ONLY source of truth for the ENTIRE world. My faith also has holy men and women being born of God and a human woman. Why should my faith be discarded as falce when yours is lifed up as truth? Because you have a book?

Again I'm sorry if this comes across as Christian bashing, that is not my attempt. However I will say that when people tell me my faith is wrong because thier book tells them it is, I want to know why that book is such an authority over my faith. How could a people on the other side of the world know for a fact that God wasn't talking to my people as well? Have my people been living for over ten thousand years ignored by god?

Thus far the evidence and sources fail to convince me. My faith has just as much backing as yours does. I'm asking nothing more of your faith than you have discounted from mine.

wa:do

 

[Melody]

It probably was me Melody..... I moved the thread when Iris RESPONDED to the debate.... I will ususally delete posts if the original author sends me a PM, but when she started in on her end of the debate.... I moved it.

If you ever post something in a non-debate forum, and someone responds with something you feel is trying to start a debate, just hit the report button and inform a Moderator.... we'll delete the post and send a PM to the member telling them it was the wrong forum for a debate...... but if you start posting back to that person and it becomes a debate, well, be prepared to have it moved.

Hope that clears things up.
Scott

Ok...yes it does, Scott.

 

[michel]

Painted Wolf, there is a quote about 'All men are equal, but some are more equal than others....' (The only ref I can find to the Author is George Orwell, but he used animals rather than men). The point I am trying to make is that certain faiths require an aweful amount of fervour.
You cannot be surprised, when debating, if some people become more vociferous than usual; you maintain your own dignity by carrying on with your norman way of doing things.

 

[Melody]

Why should my faith be discarded as falce when yours is lifed up as truth? Because you have a book?

Again I'm sorry if this comes across as Christian bashing, that is not my attempt. However I will say that when people tell me my faith is wrong because thier book tells them it is, I want to know why that book is such an authority over my faith. How could a people on the other side of the world know for a fact that God wasn't talking to my people as well? Have my people been living for over ten thousand years ignored by god?

Thus far the evidence and sources fail to convince me. My faith has just as much backing as yours does. I'm asking nothing more of your faith than you have discounted from mine.

wa:do

No, it didn't come across as Christian bashing to me. I do not think any less of someone who follows a different path but *I* believe that the only path to salvation is through Jesus. I don't mean to cast any aspersions on your own faith, but to accept yours, then I must deny mine. The best I can do is recognize that everyone has their own beliefs and makes their own choices...which may not necessarily coincide with mine.

 

[Master Vigil]

"How ridiculas, the Bible is the ultimate standard given to us for our direction by God (YHWH) himself, no other authority is necessary as it is the best authority of all."

This is opinion. Not fact. You cannot prove it at all. And someone asked why her sources are not reliable? Well she only gives links to another forum where she has more of her bad posts thinking that maybe if we read what she writes over there, it will change our minds.

 

[true blood]

The beauty is that we can have whatever faith we want and stand up for what we believe in. There are thousands of religions some dead others new and I bet there are kernels of truth behind each one. God has created all things good and evil, he created the bad paths and the good one. And there is no other person who claimed that all paths but his own led astray except one person. And everyone knows who that one person is. What truth then is proof against all lies? The good path will be the most resisted and questioned, the hottest topics and debate. Probably the most opposed and hated. Ever looking for the magic bullet to discredit and bash. The fact is that if you haven't bowed down now, you will one day. Everyone will. But don't take offense Its our religious right and freedom to stand and not sway in our believing. Rather then whine about why one doesn't see things through your eyes I hope you at least stand upon your faith as strongly as mine own.

 

[painted wolf]

Thank you for that Melody, it is greatly appreciated.

Earlier you asked why no one spoke of the links provided as evidence. Here is why I don't agree with the links provided.

Creation wonderful things of God: Well, in my faith we also have such stories about how God made the things around us for us to enjoy. It really doesn't address the question of Christs Devinity rather it is about the Evolution vs. Creationsism debate. Thus it is not relevent to the matter being discussed.

Discorse on Salvation: Salvation is not a part of my faith, God has never threatened my people with hell, we all reach the end when we have earned it. Again it uses only the bible as its source. Thus as I have expressed doubts as to the validity of the bible over my faith I can not accept that the sole source for this article is nessisarily correct. Again it really doesn't answer the question of the devinity of Christ anyway. So it also must go into the non-relevent area.

standards are promulgated but not proven: This basicly only explains that the bible is a standard simply because people choose it to be. That it can not, nor should it, be proven.
I'm sorry but I can not agree to this. My people have thier own standard then that is equily valid to the bible. It is just as old, it is just as proven prophetically, and it is just as 'given' by god. An appeal to the wide use of the bible does not make it inharently true, just widespread.
Again this buggers the question why is my 'standard' discarded but yours of equil, not better, evidence held up as 'truth'? This is an inadequite at best explanation of why I should give up my faith and believe in the bible.

Civilization and the Bible: Basically this just points out that Archeological evidence point to some of the stories in the bible being based on real events and places. Archeological evidence also proves that the history and stories of my faith are also based on real events and places. Thus this point is moot. The fact that Babalyon existed does not 'prove' the tale of the tower of babel happined
My civilizations were just as large and powerful as yours, our cultures just as rich, this article does nothing to prove the truth of the bible.

Details on bible cannon: this is just an explanation on what books of the bible are supposed to be 'genuine' and which ones arn't. It is a work about "some of the many reasons the uninspired deuterocanonical books of the apocrypha should be rejected"
since I have not talked about any of these books nor would I, this seems to be also not relevent. If the point is that 'man' had nothing to do with the bible and what went in it then if fails. It infact shows how man has attemped and possibly succeeded in tampering with the origional bible. How is this supposed to prove the bible is what I should believe in over my own faith. How does this answer my question about why Jesus is a Deity but not others?
It doesn't.

Thus my doubts remain. Other than to tell me that my faith is myth, my question goes unanswered.
I don't blame others for having faith that Jesus is devine or think they are wrong for it, but I do not have that faith myself. If I did I would be Christian

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

And there is no other person who claimed that all paths but his own led astray except one person. And everyone knows who that one person is.

Mohammad?

wa:do

 

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

Since there are too many post to answer and/or address each individually, I will do it with a general post.



FIRST, I do not debate. What some may look on as debating in what I do is actually posting of additional information or where it can be located and not debating per se.



SECOND, As a basis for anything from measurements such as a meter to guidance in life you should start out with a recognized standard. With respect to guidance in life that should be God's (YHWH's) word for mankind, The Bible, which was written by faithful men under divine guidance. In other words, God (YHWH) is the author and used men, faithful, as scribes to put his thoughts into the words of men and at times inspired them to use already written works such as the Book of Adam, Book of Jashar, etc. to pull historical information from to help them in putting his thoughts into the words of men.



For more information on this subject, go to:



STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382158&lp=1108382158



and,



Civilization & the Bible

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382063&lp=1108382063



and,



Details on Bible Canon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108381517&lp=1108381780



THIRD, In all my research products (articles) I always provide abundant evidence and reference sources either from God's (YHWH's) standard, the Bible is the Standard, or from reliable secular sources such as dictionaries, encyclopedias, history books, enown newspapers (Wall Street Journal, the San Jose Monitor, the London Time, the International Herald Tribune, the Orlando Sentinal, etc. When I quote from the Bible, I in intellectual honesty always not only state the verse, but always the translation it was taken from.



FOURTH, With respect the use of dumb, some of the questions put to be were only adequately described by this term. For example, it is a well known fact that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the Son of God and this is stated over 40 times in the New Testament and everyone in North America and Europe should know this and not ask 'dumb' questions on this subject since they are as dumb as asking if the sun exist; both are part of general knowledge. I regularly deal with Hindus and even they know about Jesus (Yeshua) so there is no excuse for such nonsense questions.



FIFTH, The Bible contains 100s of eye witness accounts of people who have seen this or that miracle or event. Also, what is written in it has been to a large extent also collaborated by archaeological and contemporary history books such as Antiguity of the Jews and Wars of the Jews by favious Josephus, etc.



SIXTH, All should go and read my articles on faith at:



Discourse on What is Faith:

http://wwco.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=study&action=display&num=1107538835



and,



"Pure' Sola Scriptura" Discourse on FAITH By Trans

http://p197.ezboard.com/fabnafrm10.showMessage?topicID=118.topic



SEVENTH, All should start learning about the Bible and the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua). To do so, go to the following:





DOCUMENTARY ON OUR SAVIOR JESUS (YESHUA):

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=390732&messageid=1109114755&lp=1109114755





And,



http://www.network54.com/Forum/388172



Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 

[linwood]

SECOND, As a basis for anything from measurements such as a meter to guidance in life you should start out with a recognized standard.

Agreed, but you are aware not everyone uses the same standard that you use are you not?
The really neat part is that they are wrong according to your standard but according to theirs, they are right.

Whose standard is the "right" standard?

With respect to guidance in life that should be God's (YHWH's) word for mankind, The Bible, which was written by faithful men under divine guidance.

Please convince me the Bible should be the standard I accept as my own.
My own reading and study of the Bible has left me with the belief that the book is an extremely low standard to base ones morality on.

In other words, God (YHWH) is the author and used men, faithful, as scribes to put his thoughts into the words of men and at times inspired them ....

You are aware that you have not one stitch of independent evidence to support this assertion aren`t you?
In fact an honest reading of the Bible itself and an acceptance of the realities of the world and life leads to the logical conclusion that the Bible is anything but inspired by a perfect God.

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

Apparently you are aware your standard isn`t "standard" for everyone.
Why do you continue to submit it is infallable?
I believe this thread may have fallen into the proselytizing category awhile back .
I`ll leave that consideration to the MODs

With respect the use of dumb, some of the questions put to be were only adequately described by this term. For example, it is a well known fact that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the Son of God...

We obviously have directly opposite definitions for "dumb"
Dumb to me is making an assertion of fact that one knows has no basis of evidence.

If Jesus`s divinity were a "well established fact" then Chritianity would rule the day.
It doesn`t because it is not a fact and has no independent evidence to support it whatsoever.

..and this is stated over 40 times in the New Testament

The New testament is a fairy tale written by men whose existence or involvement we cannot confirm by any reliable means.
The content and agenda of the New testament itself is highly dubious.

I regularly deal with Hindus and even they know about Jesus (Yeshua) so there is no excuse for such nonsense questions.

Yes they know about Jesus.
I also know about Santa Claus, that doesn`t mean I beleiev the stories of his feats.
Do these Hindus believe in the divinty of Jesus?
Since they don`t are they too "dumb".
The question PW asked is entirely valid and the fact that you have no answer for it only shows the weakness in your argument.
You wish to slander the questioner because you cannot answer the question.
Abhorent tactic, you`re right, you cannot debate.

FIFTH, The Bible contains 100s of eye witness accounts of people who have seen this or that miracle or event.

So does "Twas the Night Before Christmas"
So does the Koran, so does the Book of the Dead.
Why is the Bible more valid?

Also, what is written in it has been to a large extent also collaborated by archaeological and contemporary history books such as Antiguity of the Jews and Wars of the Jews by favious Josephus, etc.

What was written in "A Tale of Two Cities" is also historically accurate.
Does that make the novel truth?

In fact the Bible has many historical inaccuracies.I would like to ask the MODs to consider the tone Iris has taken here and the repeated slinging of insult.
Not to mention the possibility of proselytizing.

 

[painted wolf]

FOURTH, With respect the use of dumb, some of the questions put to be were only adequately described by this term. For example, it is a well known fact that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the Son of God and this is stated over 40 times in the New Testament and everyone in North America and Europe should know this and not ask 'dumb' questions on this subject since they are as dumb as asking if the sun exist; both are part of general knowledge. I regularly deal with Hindus and even they know about Jesus (Yeshua) so there is no excuse for such nonsense questions.

I see the sun everyday. I have never seen Jesus and I have never read a book that was 100% truthful. The question is not nonsence and please stop calling me dumb for pointing it out to you!:banghead3

It doesn't matter if they talk about jesus 40 times or 140 times, its just one book. The reason it is 'general knowladge' is that it is popular book and a well known religion. Hindus know who Jesus is, not because they belive in him but because Christianity has been very good at telling EVERYONE about him. It does not make it truth!:bonk:

I know ABOUT Jesus, I do not know that he is the real only son of god! wich is the whole point thank you.:help:

There have been no nonsence questions just nonsence answers.

wa:do

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Iris, I will continue to protest the use of the word 'dumb.' Your reasons for using it were just as unjustified as using it in the first place. However, I just noticed this delightful little tidbit. I was saddened, because the works of my own faith hadn't been attacked yet, so this was very reassuring.

Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.

Why is the Quran or (I'm assuming you meant) the book of Wicca any more or less bizzare than the Bible? Also, there is no book of Wicca. My faith does not have any one central text, and to attack it on the basis of a book that doesn't even exist is getting into a dangerous area, in terms of being not very nice to people. NetDoc, Melody, Scott, and so many other people are just a few examples of how Western Christians can demonstrate how one can lead beautiful examples of your faith without attacking ones that are not your own. It might be something to aspire to.

 

[iris89]

Hi True Blood:



When you said,

The good path will be the most resisted and questioned, the hottest

topics and debate. Probably the most opposed and hated. Ever

looking for the magic bullet to discredit and bash.

This is a true statement. Even Jesus (Yeshua) clearly stated that his true followers would be few in number and despised by many. In considering whether the mainstream groups of Christianity are correct in belief or in serious error, one needs to consider several scriptures in the new testament showing the Truth with respect what God (YHWH) has to say through inspired writers and then reflect back to how this would apply to mainstream Christianity to which most so called Christians belong. First let's consider both Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:13-14, it is in both of these that the road followed by true believers would be narrow and cramped, Luke 13:24, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); And Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, abroad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (AV); thereby, clearly showing few would be entering the narrow gate "which leadeth unto life." In reality, it will be difficult for even true Christians to enter as testified to at 1 Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear." (AV). In order to enter, we must have the right sort of guide, Luke 1:79, "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." (AV). Now, if one picks the wrong group, just because it is popular or the so called 'one to belong to in a community' and not because of Bible Truths, there is an important warning given at Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (AV). In fact, being with the wrong group can mean you are NOT having fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as testified to at 1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not [have] the truth." (AV). This danger is made abundantly clear at Luke 12:32 when Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of his true followers as a little flock and not a large one, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." (AV). Simply stated, his true followers will be relatively few in number which should cause all sincere individuals to question whether mainstream religion with its vast membership is heading for the narrow gate!



I have or follow no creed or church canon. I follow the bible all the way, not halfway, and the Bible is entirely consistent, i.e., both the New Testament and the Old Testament, and practical for our day. In you desire more details, go to:



STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382158&lp=1108382158



and,



Civilization & the Bible

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108382063&lp=1108382063



and,



Details on Bible Canon:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1108381517&lp=1108381780



and for information on Faith, go to:



http://www.network54.com/Forum/391113



I hope this will assist you with respect understanding.



Your Friend in Christ Iris89