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Why Do Some Christians Not Recognize The Holy Mother Of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by SunMessenger, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

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    Check

    Respect - Check.
    Devotion - I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm thinking no.

    Not entirely sure we'd see eye to eye on this one either. I believe that she was chosen to be the Mother of Christ because she is, in fact, a very special and wonderful person. I don't know that she has any higher status before God than any other human that repents of their sins and takes advantage of the Atonement of Christ to become perfect in him. I don't believe that Mary was without sin, and I see no reason to believe so. Christ was the only person ever to live on this planet past childhood and never sin.

    The Atonement of Christ gives me hope for the forgiveness of sins. Mary doesn't come into that equation for me.
    I defer to Katz comment, as she said basically what I would.
     
  2. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    What's that period of time?
    Numbers will work just fine for me...
     
  3. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Well, I'd be reasonably open to considering any first-hand accounts recorded during the first century or century and a half after Jesus' death. Of course, I would need to know the specifics before I would just accept anyone's statment as fact. If I can accept that various resurrected beings appeared to Joseph Smith, I wouldn't deny the possibility of Mary appearing in a vision, etc. to someone. God works in whatever ways He knows will accomplish His purposes. You're going to have a much more difficult time convincing me that she can hear and answer prayers, though, or save someone's life. I would also feel that there would have to be a specific purpose for the apparition. If God was going to have Mary appear to someone, I would think that it would be in order to relay a message of some sort and that there would be some reason why she would have been the best person to relay that message.
     
  4. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Kat here in that God saved John Paul and not the Blessed Mother...perhaps God used her as a more approachable way to reach him in the spiritual sense but only God saved him since HE alone knows what course our lives are to take.
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Nonsense. It is a statemen of fact: your "belief" finds no reflection in the authorative, two volume, Religions of Rome, despite the fact that volume 1 has more than a few references to Isis. The implicit opinion is that, when it comes to the topic at hand, the authors are more credible than you. That seems to me a more than reasonable opinion. No?
     
  6. Todd

    Todd Rajun Cajun

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    Sorry for my delayed response. Works been busy.



    I thought you pray to Mary to pray for you. Please forgive my ignorance if I am wrong. I just always thought Catholics prayed (I know I always did):

    Hail Mary,
    Full of Grace,
    The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit
    of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary,
    Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners now,
    and at the hour of death.

    Why not ask your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for you? Is he/she not as good as Mary to pray with and for you? Like I mentioned, I think she is blessed, but I don't think she is Holy/Devine/Sacred. She can't intercede for our sins. Only Christ can.


    When we are talking about Holy, I'm defining it as divine or sacred. There are many definitions of the word. How are you defining it? The only reason I ask is because I ran into this situation when debating someone on another topic, and it turned out that we actually agreed, but that we had the wrong definition :).

    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
     
  7. Simon Gnosis

    Simon Gnosis Active Member

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    Dude...lemme just set you straight here....
    Who cares about your books?
    You think your precious two volume Religions of Rome is the only empirical definitive statement of historical fact knocking about?

    No evidence of Isis/Mary blending at all historically...?
    Even if it was...'true'....define true...remember history is taught by the winners.
    You think you can so safely pontificate and crticize while not really knowing at all what happened all those thousands of years ago...?

    Who do you think you are fellow?
    I am but a humble chemist trying to say what he see's....

    However I don't really care if you worship Mary mother of Tutankhamen if it makes you happy....I guess.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Thanks. That pretty much says all that needs be said about your contributions.
     
  9. Simon Gnosis

    Simon Gnosis Active Member

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    Does anyone really care about your PARTICULAR books though? :sarcastic
     
  10. Simon Gnosis

    Simon Gnosis Active Member

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    You only ever seem to try to provoke arguement with tenuous at best grounds for doing so.
    Why not lighten up a bit?
    Why not post something constructive just for a change?
    Like your particular understanding of reality for example?
     
  11. SunMessenger

    SunMessenger Catholic

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    Well this is a difficult question to answer completely without violating a rule but I will try. I do not believe that the Holy Mother hears our prayers "any more" than any other deceased person. I do not believe The Holy Mother hears our prayers any less either. Her Favored Status with God opens up a great probability that She may also have a very good rapport with Jesus and Our Father in Heaven .When I pray with Her I pray to God and do not ask Her to perform a miracle but, in simple human terms, I ask Her to pray or ask with me through Her Son Jesus. I do not know if that's clear enough. I do apologize for not being able to make it clearer. Be Well and God Bless...
     
  12. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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  13. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Not a bad answer at all. It seems to me that most of the misunderstanding of our common practice with regards to the saints is down to the fact that English uses the short hand 'pray to the saints' when what we really mean to say is 'ask the saints to pray to God for us', which is quite different.

    James
     
  14. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    Or can't it rather be 'ask the saints to pray to God with us' ?
     
  15. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Same difference really. It's like asking someone at our parish to pray for us, because we don't believe those who have passed on are dead but alive in God. I think it would be fairly unusual for one of us to ask for another's prayers and yet not offer up our own, whether the person we ask is part of the Church Triumphant in Heaven or with us here on earth in the Church Militant.

    James
     
  16. SunMessenger

    SunMessenger Catholic

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    Well thank you for taking time. In the prayer above it clearly does say Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for our sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. May I refer you to post 131 that I just completed to define the rest. Thank You... Be Well and God Bless...
     
  17. SunMessenger

    SunMessenger Catholic

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    To use a somewhat Catholic Term... BINGO! LOL Right on the nose with that one... Be Well and God Bless...
     
  18. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    Doesn't the bible say that Jesus is at the right hand of God making intersession for us already. Why do we need Mary? (Not an attack, just a question)
     
  19. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    From our point of view, Christ being the mediator between God and man means something quite different from the intercession of the saints. I'm not sure what RCs might say, though. For us, Christ is the one mediator because, by becoming Incarnate he joined humanity to Divinity and without this there could not even be any saints to intercede. Saints, then, intercede simply by praying for us. Christ interceded by becoming one of us.

    James
     
  20. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    But then why does Christ "make" intesesion for us. As in still doing it. continueous.
     
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