Kinda like throwing darts blindfolded. You might hit a wall. There might be a dart board on it. Maybe not.
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Why do some Atheists trust specifically chosen stories about Muhammed as historical fact?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
Exactly.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I have never commented on what is given in Quran or hadith. I have not said that what is mentioned in Quran or Hadiths is true or false. I have only mentioned what is written in them (in the current topic, hadiths). The readers will make their own conclusions.
I am independent but I have my own biases. I do not believe in God / soul / messengers, prophets, etc. / heaven or hell / and judgment by a God. This is what terms me as an atheist. My belief wants me to be as clinical as possible. Every time a science finding comes up, I check it with my belief which adheres to science. So You cannot call me a blind believer of any philosophy. There is no story which I will believe without questioning.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
False.
Thats your post. It is not saying "this is what is said, so you can make your own conclusions". You just made that up.
You are making a proper statement with conviction. Irrelevant one of course, but a clear statement.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
In the first sentence I do not agree that all theological literature is false. There may be some truth and some falsehood also. There are always deletions and interpolations. If the different versions of Quran had not differed, then Caliph Uthman would have had no reason for destroying all versions of Quran other than what was given to him. I reported what I find written in Wikipedia page on Quran. I am sure you too are aware of some Quran history.
Wikipedia also reports that personal copies of the Quran might have existed including Ibn Mas'ud's and Ubay ibn Ka'b's codex (they were companions of Mohammad), none of which exist today.
Wikipedia also reports that personal copies of the Quran might have existed including Ibn Mas'ud's and Ubay ibn Ka'b's codex (they were companions of Mohammad), none of which exist today.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
But your "bias" should not be "the story you wish to quote about Muhammed, or about the Zabith is absolutely true".
Being an atheist, that's an oxymoron.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Great. But what is your historical method employed to say "Even Quran was complied by Zayed ibn Thabit from various sources including that of his own, and third Caliph Uthman destroyed the differing versions."?
firedragon
Veteran Member
So you believe everything Muslims say about the history of the Quran is absolutely true? Or do you cherry pick what you want to quote, like what you already did because you "ONLY BELIEVE THAT PARTICULAR STORY IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE"?
Isn't there any historical method at all?
Augustus
…
"You" was meant in the sense of 'people in general' rather than you specifically.
I wasn't saying you have done that, but it is true that many other people will reject the legitimacy of the Islamic traditions in general, while also accepting them as historical fact only in the cases where they show Islam in a bad light.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I never said that stories quoted by me from hadiths were absolute truth.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
You seem to be struggling with your own mind at the moment so lets keep it simple;
You've claimed some atheists did something. I think you're wrong (or just making it up). If you are unwilling or unable to back up your accusation, the assumption will remain that you're wrong and so your question is moot.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
The historical method is being applied by Wikipedia, I only quoted it. Personally I do not believe even in a single word of Quran, starting with 'lā ʾilāha ʾillā -llāhu'. After all, I am a 'strong' atheist who does not even accept the possibility of Existence of any God - not just the Abrahamic God but even the Hindu Gods and Goddesses.
firedragon
Veteran Member
If they are not the truth, why make statements like this?
"Even Quran was complied by Zayed ibn Thabit from various sources including that of his own, and third Caliph Uthman destroyed the differing versions."
firedragon
Veteran Member
Ah. I think you are trying to find opportunity to feel good about yourself by putting others down. As long as you find some solace that way, its alright.
Read through the OP, and the thread.
firedragon
Veteran Member
What is the historical method applied "by wikipedia" as you said, and why do you trust it?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I never said that they are untruth. People should check for themselves.
"What is the historical method applied "by wikipedia" as you said, and why do you trust it?": For that, kindly visit Wikipedia. How their articles are written and maintained is described in detail. I will give you a link, if I can find that.
Here: Help:Introduction to Wikipedia - Wikipedia
We are getting too hot. Perhaps it will be better for us to cool down for some time.
firedragon
Veteran Member
What is the historical method you applied to this which is your own statement?
"Even Quran was complied by Zayed ibn Thabit from various sources including that of his own, and third Caliph Uthman destroyed the differing versions."
firedragon
Veteran Member
So you trust Muslims so much enough to blind believe this particular story? That’s your method?
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
Just what he said about the Jews and Christians, taking his adopted sons' wife, having sex slaves, making his followers suck on the teats of women who are not their wives, sucking on the tongues of little boys, his child bride, etc.
Not to mention all the people he had killed.