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Featured Why do science hide the truth?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Amanaki, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Irrelevant. Talking about 'trillions of years' when there was *no time* is self-contradictory. It's like talkig how bright it is when there is no light, or going 100 miles when there is no distance.
     
  2. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Funny that. The Bible is my evidence that the god described within doesn't exist. That god is assigned mutually exclusive qualities. What better evidence do you need that the book's authors were human beings inventing stories that at times contradict one another?

    Why are you asking for evidence? Your beliefs are based in faith. Faith is your epistemological choice for deciding what is true about reality, not evidence or sound argument.

    Why should anybody go along with your God "theory"? All it is is somebody's theory, right?

    It can if you want it to. That is the power of faith. There is nothing that cannot be claimed to be the truth and believed by faith.

    And you can believe that by faith. For those who use reason applied to evidence to decide what will happen tomorrow, there is no support for that notion.

    The dictionary doesn't support your claim that theory has only one meaning, and that that meaning is equivalent to a guess or a personal opinion.

    That's religion - just words. What happens in your church on Sunday morning? Just words, some spoken, some sung, none supported by evidence or accomplishments.

    Science does much more than just generate words. It has a long list of stunning achievements to add to its words such as you and I communicating the way we are. Religion has no analogous accomplishments.
     
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  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As to where do you think Christians would go for their evidence and proof.if not the bible.
    The bible is the source of all evidence and proof for all Christians.
    Just because people can't handle that, is no fault of Christians.
     
  4. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    You can no longer claim ignorance of what a scientific theory is. Any comments that you now make "misunderstanding" or "misrepresenting" what a scientific theory is, must be taken as lying.
     
    #384 ecco, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  5. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    The Big Bang theory is explanation for the universe after the “Big Bang”, which is the start of the cosmic inflation or expansion, the evolution of the universe, resulting in the gradual cooling of the universe, which in turn:
    1. the 4 fundamental interactions or forces (gravity, strong nuclear forces, weak nuclear forces and electromagnetism) began to separate from one another;
    2. forming energy into particles (eg quarks in the Quark Epoch, leptons in the Lepton Epoch); and then period there was a period known as the Hadron Epoch, where smaller particles (eg quarks) formed into larger particles (eg protons and neutrons);
    3. from particles to matters (eg the Primordial Nucleosynthesis and Recombination Epoch resulting in the atomic nuclei ionized matters (like ionized hydrogen and helium), and then electrical neutral matters when electrons bonded with ionized nuclei (hydrogen and helium became stable matters);
    4. matters to large structures (eg stars, planets and galaxies).
    The theory doesn’t explain what was BEFORE THE BIG BANG, nor does it explain what “cause” the BB. It is mystery that may never be answered.

    Some theoretical physicists and theoretical cosmologists are working on what occurred before the BB, but they have not being tested, so they are still theoretical, meaning the these fields are mathematically feasible, but have no evidences.

    All theoretical fields are proposed explanations, not (yet) accepted as “scientific theory”.

    Being accepted as scientific theory, a hypothesis must meet three essential requirements:
    1. being falsifiable,
    2. being tested (Scientific Method), and test mean observation, measurement, experiments, hence evidences,
    3. and being reviewed (hence Peer Review).
    Theoretical fields like M-theory (multi-dimensional String Theory), Superstring Theory, Multiverse model(s), Cyclical model (the universe going through a series of Bangs and Crunches), etc, all have proofs but no evidences.

    The term “proof” in the scientific context mean solving complex mathematical equations to get the answer, is only abstract solution, not a real world solution.

    What I mean by “real world solution”, is where hypotheses can be tested or experimented.

    All those theoretical fields are only proposal models, not working scientific theories.
     
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  6. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    As a example, gravity.

    Isaac Newton was one of pioneers to explain gravity, and their application in mechanics. And while Newton is to be commended for his work on Newtonian mechanics and gravity, it wasn’t complete, because his works was limited by the technology he lived in.

    In the the early 20th century, Albert Einstein expanded gravity beyond Newton’s concept of gravity - General Relativity.

    GR (combined with Special Relativity) are far more useful in explaining the world outside of our Milky Way.

    Modern cosmology have been trying to combine GR with other fields, such as Quantum Mechanics and Particle Physics, with some successes.

    General Relativity haven’t made Newton’s theory in gravity and mechanics obsolete, because they are still valid and useful in many areas, most noticeably in the engineering fields. But to understand the cosmology of the universe GR is required.
     
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  7. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Good discussion.

    It is for this reason that I am tending to lean away from concepts like absolute truth and ultimate truth, and toward ideas like the utility of an idea. If an idea like Newton's formulation of gravity can be used to predict and control outcomes, it is useful and can be called knowledge whether it is true in the sense of being the final say on the topic or not. As you alluded, Newton's ideas are still sufficient for most purposes including space travel. So are they true? Are they correct? What they definitely are is useful. One can direct a space probe to Pluto years before its arrival and expect the dwarf planet and probe to rendezvous

    Before Einstein, LaPlace expanded Newton's mathematics (perturbation theory) to handle gravitation involving multiple bodies, a problem that stumped Newton, and about which Newton assumed that God kept the solar system intact, From Principia:

    “The six primary Planets are revolv'd about the Sun, in circles concentric with the Sun, and with motions directed towards the same parts, and almost in the same plane. . . . But it is not to be conceived that mere mechanical causes could give birth to so many regular motions. . . . This most beautiful System of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.”

    Odd that Newton called the orbits circular. He lived after Kepler and presumably had access to Kepler's work on elliptical orbits.

    As I explained, and as your screen name suggests, Christianity is believed by faith, not evidence. If the Bible were evidence that the Christian god exists, anybody capable of understanding it would become a Christian upon reading it, wouldn't they?

    The Bible actually calls faith evidence. Faith is evidence of nothing except that a person is willing to believe something without sufficient evidentiary support.

    The Bible is not evidence that its contents are correct and its god actually exists any more than any other holy book is evidence that the god or gods described within them actually exist. You have to have faith that the book is accurate to believe it.

    The Bible is evidence that it was written, and not much else, unless you consider as I do that the god it describes is logically impossible because of being described as possessing mutually exclusive qualities at the same time. If you accept that argument, the Bible is also evidence that fallible human beings wrote some if not all of it, human beings that didn't necessarily consult with one another. One writes that God is perfect, and another writes that He regretted his failure creating sinful man enough to try a do-over.

    There may be a god or gods, but the Bible does not support the notion. Gods must be believed in by faith.
     
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  8. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Me too.
     
  9. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    The Bible is a source for faith and outdated morality.
     
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  10. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm:
     
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  11. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Why do you ask? Why would you care?

    Shouldn't you be demanding more evidence to validate your belief that your god has existed eternally?
    Shouldn't you be asking why he did nothing for 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of eternity before creating the universe?
    Shouldn't you be asking why he created A&E as he did, knowing they would disobey him?
    Shouldn't you be asking why he blamed all sin on A&E when all they did was what he knew they would do?

    So many questions affecting your beliefs. And here you are asking questions about a scientific event. Ridiculous.
     
  12. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. More accurately...
    The bible is the only source of all evidence for all Christians.

    It's not good evidence.
    It's not plausible evidence.
    It is self-contradictory.
    It contains stories that are easily dismissed by facts.
    It makes much use of first-person testimony where it is obvious that information could not have been obtained directly by the writer.

    Why anyone would put any credence into something like the bible is one of the great mysteries of life.
     
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  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    So you say.

    Just because you can't handle the bible, ho well that's you

    As a Christian the bible is all the evidence that i need.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Actually i don't care, But i do like to know what caused the Big Bang, and then what caused that to happen
    And then what caused that to happen
    And then what caused that to happen
    And Ect--------------------?

    Can you explain all that?
     
  15. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Faithofchristian,
    What you have asked is simple, The Almighty God is the First Cause. Jesus, Who was called Michael, when inheaven, was The Second Cause. After Jesus was Created, called The Only Begotten Son of God, meaning that Jesus was Unique in all Creation, because God Created Jesus when no other thing was Created, Creating and forming Jesus completely by Himself. Every other thing in Creation as Created FOR Jesus and THROUGH Jesus, Colossians 1:15-20.
    It is impossible for men to understand how God Created the heavens and the earth. Men are far to stupid, they cannot understand God’s ways, Job 37:5, Isaiah 55:8,9.
    One thing is for sure, the Universe was not started with a Big Bang, which is an unlikely, Half thought out,Theory.
    In the first place, it is an impossibility for all the Universe to be reduced to a Singularity,because there is,just so much space in every Atom. If our earth was reduced until no more space existed, it would still be, at least the size of softball. How would that account for the trillions of heavenly bodies??
    The most troubling thing about Science is; they have tried to take The Almighty God out of the equation, which is like taking the Speed of Light, Squared,out of the Energy Formula. Could you ever come to the correct answer???
    Besides that, there is a basic law of all explosions; explosions cause chaos, the greater the Explosion, the greater the Chaos.
    How then, in anyone’s psychotic noodle could the greatest explosion EVER, cause Complete Harmony of the heavens. The heavens are even called, The Cosmos, which means Harmony.
    To tell the truth, I have a great problem, when someone starts out with an impossibility, and then goes to elaborate even more on an impossible Theory.
    You know, the Bible even addresses people like that, at Romans 1:18-25.
    There are two kinds of Religion, Natural Religion, and Revealed Religion. Natural Religion, we get from a study of the things that God Created. Revealed Religion comes from the things we learn from Gods Word, The Holy Bible.
    Is there anything in nature that man can make? We even have several branches of Science that try to make even an inferior copy, so as to help mankind cope with his existence.
    Agape!!!
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Why do you think that he "cannot handle the Bible"? Most atheists have no problem handling it. We understand it better than many Christians that have to stop reasoning when confronted with the endless genocide bigotry and general evil in the book. We do not have to generate false narratives to explain the evils of the Bible. Literalists do have to jump through those hoops.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The abbreviation for et cetera is etc.

    The best way to learn what cause the Big Bang is to study physics. Not to read a book of myths.
     
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  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Can you give the book and chapter and verses as to where it clearly states that Jesus is Michael the Arch-Angel.
    Where's that written at, in what book of the Bible and chapter and verses
     
  19. Wirey

    Wirey Fartist

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    How many internet loons are there? Five?
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Six if I show up.
     
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