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Why do science hide the truth?

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Nope not at all, when God was there to give the account as to how everything came about.
But then you can't take God's word on it. But can take man's word on it, who wasn't even there .
Now how is this to work.

Irrelevant. Talking about 'trillions of years' when there was *no time* is self-contradictory. It's like talkig how bright it is when there is no light, or going 100 miles when there is no distance.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
all the evidence of the existence of God that I need lays within the bible/scriptures .

Funny that. The Bible is my evidence that the god described within doesn't exist. That god is assigned mutually exclusive qualities. What better evidence do you need that the book's authors were human beings inventing stories that at times contradict one another?

So what evidence do you have that the universe happen exactly the way you say it did

Why are you asking for evidence? Your beliefs are based in faith. Faith is your epistemological choice for deciding what is true about reality, not evidence or sound argument.

I don't go long with the big bang theory, and that's all it is just someone's Theory.

Why should anybody go along with your God "theory"? All it is is somebody's theory, right?

I have this theory of my opinion that a cow did jump over the moon. So does this mean the cow actually jump over the moon?

It can if you want it to. That is the power of faith. There is nothing that cannot be claimed to be the truth and believed by faith.

Look I have this theory that tomorrow the sun is going to fall out of it's orbit

And you can believe that by faith. For those who use reason applied to evidence to decide what will happen tomorrow, there is no support for that notion.

Go get any dictionary and look up the definition of what Theory means.

The dictionary doesn't support your claim that theory has only one meaning, and that that meaning is equivalent to a guess or a personal opinion.

All scientist are doing is a play on words

That's religion - just words. What happens in your church on Sunday morning? Just words, some spoken, some sung, none supported by evidence or accomplishments.

Science does much more than just generate words. It has a long list of stunning achievements to add to its words such as you and I communicating the way we are. Religion has no analogous accomplishments.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Funny that. The Bible is my evidence that the god described within doesn't exist. That god is assigned mutually exclusive qualities. What better evidence do you need that the book's authors were human beings inventing stories that at times contradict one another?



Why are you asking for evidence? Your beliefs are based in faith. Faith is your epistemological choice for deciding what is true about reality, not evidence or sound argument.



Why should anybody go along with your God "theory"? All it is is somebody's theory, right?



It can if you want it to. That is the power of faith. There is nothing that cannot be claimed to be the truth and believed by faith.



And you can believe that by faith. For those who use reason applied to evidence to decide what will happen tomorrow, there is no support for that notion.



The dictionary doesn't support your claim that theory has only one meaning, and that that meaning is equivalent to a guess or a personal opinion.



That's religion - just words. What happens in your church on Sunday morning? Just words, some spoken, some sung, none supported by evidence or accomplishments.

Science does much more than just generate words. It has a long list of stunning achievements to add to its words such as you and I communicating the way we are. Religion has no analogous accomplishments.

As to where do you think Christians would go for their evidence and proof.if not the bible.
The bible is the source of all evidence and proof for all Christians.
Just because people can't handle that, is no fault of Christians.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I have and several others have already supplied you with good definitions of what a scientific theory is and it is not an opinion or what someone speculates.
Scientific theory

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. [my emphasis]
Also and I quote" :A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."
There are many words in the English language that have two different meanings. They are called Homographs or Heteronyms:
READ
BELIEVE
FAITH
THEORY
Only ignorant and biased creationists will ignore the definition scientific theory.

It's when people takes someone's Theory of opinion and trys to make it as something that actually happened.

You can no longer claim ignorance of what a scientific theory is. Any comments that you now make "misunderstanding" or "misrepresenting" what a scientific theory is, must be taken as lying.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
Ok, what caused the big bang to happen.

Now whatever may haved caused the big bang to happen, what caused that to happen.
And then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And ect-------------?
The Big Bang theory is explanation for the universe after the “Big Bang”, which is the start of the cosmic inflation or expansion, the evolution of the universe, resulting in the gradual cooling of the universe, which in turn:
  1. the 4 fundamental interactions or forces (gravity, strong nuclear forces, weak nuclear forces and electromagnetism) began to separate from one another;
  2. forming energy into particles (eg quarks in the Quark Epoch, leptons in the Lepton Epoch); and then period there was a period known as the Hadron Epoch, where smaller particles (eg quarks) formed into larger particles (eg protons and neutrons);
  3. from particles to matters (eg the Primordial Nucleosynthesis and Recombination Epoch resulting in the atomic nuclei ionized matters (like ionized hydrogen and helium), and then electrical neutral matters when electrons bonded with ionized nuclei (hydrogen and helium became stable matters);
  4. matters to large structures (eg stars, planets and galaxies).
The theory doesn’t explain what was BEFORE THE BIG BANG, nor does it explain what “cause” the BB. It is mystery that may never be answered.

Some theoretical physicists and theoretical cosmologists are working on what occurred before the BB, but they have not being tested, so they are still theoretical, meaning the these fields are mathematically feasible, but have no evidences.

All theoretical fields are proposed explanations, not (yet) accepted as “scientific theory”.

Being accepted as scientific theory, a hypothesis must meet three essential requirements:
  1. being falsifiable,
  2. being tested (Scientific Method), and test mean observation, measurement, experiments, hence evidences,
  3. and being reviewed (hence Peer Review).
Theoretical fields like M-theory (multi-dimensional String Theory), Superstring Theory, Multiverse model(s), Cyclical model (the universe going through a series of Bangs and Crunches), etc, all have proofs but no evidences.

The term “proof” in the scientific context mean solving complex mathematical equations to get the answer, is only abstract solution, not a real world solution.

What I mean by “real world solution”, is where hypotheses can be tested or experimented.

All those theoretical fields are only proposal models, not working scientific theories.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Because our ability to verify and test changes over time. It is possible that some new test will force a reconsideration for parts of the theory. This has happened many times in physics, for example.
As a example, gravity.

Isaac Newton was one of pioneers to explain gravity, and their application in mechanics. And while Newton is to be commended for his work on Newtonian mechanics and gravity, it wasn’t complete, because his works was limited by the technology he lived in.

In the the early 20th century, Albert Einstein expanded gravity beyond Newton’s concept of gravity - General Relativity.

GR (combined with Special Relativity) are far more useful in explaining the world outside of our Milky Way.

Modern cosmology have been trying to combine GR with other fields, such as Quantum Mechanics and Particle Physics, with some successes.

General Relativity haven’t made Newton’s theory in gravity and mechanics obsolete, because they are still valid and useful in many areas, most noticeably in the engineering fields. But to understand the cosmology of the universe GR is required.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In the the early 20th century, Albert Einstein expanded gravity beyond Newton’s concept of gravity - General Relativity.

Good discussion.

It is for this reason that I am tending to lean away from concepts like absolute truth and ultimate truth, and toward ideas like the utility of an idea. If an idea like Newton's formulation of gravity can be used to predict and control outcomes, it is useful and can be called knowledge whether it is true in the sense of being the final say on the topic or not. As you alluded, Newton's ideas are still sufficient for most purposes including space travel. So are they true? Are they correct? What they definitely are is useful. One can direct a space probe to Pluto years before its arrival and expect the dwarf planet and probe to rendezvous

Before Einstein, LaPlace expanded Newton's mathematics (perturbation theory) to handle gravitation involving multiple bodies, a problem that stumped Newton, and about which Newton assumed that God kept the solar system intact, From Principia:

“The six primary Planets are revolv'd about the Sun, in circles concentric with the Sun, and with motions directed towards the same parts, and almost in the same plane. . . . But it is not to be conceived that mere mechanical causes could give birth to so many regular motions. . . . This most beautiful System of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.”

Odd that Newton called the orbits circular. He lived after Kepler and presumably had access to Kepler's work on elliptical orbits.

As to where do you think Christians would go for their evidence and proof.if not the bible.

As I explained, and as your screen name suggests, Christianity is believed by faith, not evidence. If the Bible were evidence that the Christian god exists, anybody capable of understanding it would become a Christian upon reading it, wouldn't they?

The Bible actually calls faith evidence. Faith is evidence of nothing except that a person is willing to believe something without sufficient evidentiary support.

The bible is the source of all evidence and proof for all Christians.

The Bible is not evidence that its contents are correct and its god actually exists any more than any other holy book is evidence that the god or gods described within them actually exist. You have to have faith that the book is accurate to believe it.

The Bible is evidence that it was written, and not much else, unless you consider as I do that the god it describes is logically impossible because of being described as possessing mutually exclusive qualities at the same time. If you accept that argument, the Bible is also evidence that fallible human beings wrote some if not all of it, human beings that didn't necessarily consult with one another. One writes that God is perfect, and another writes that He regretted his failure creating sinful man enough to try a do-over.

There may be a god or gods, but the Bible does not support the notion. Gods must be believed in by faith.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Theory is just exactly that, it's a person theory on how something happened.

It doesn't mean it actually happened that way,
It's only their theory of opinion.
Not to be taken that it literally did actually happened.

What your doing, is taking someone theory and saying it actually happened that way.

Because someone has a theory, does not mean it actually happened.
It's just their theory.

Look I have this theory that tomorrow the sun is going to fall out of it's orbit,
It does mean it will happen nor did it happen that way.

It was only my theory

No more than to say, I have this theory that two planets collided which caused the big bang.
It doesn't mean it happened, it was only my theory what may haved happen.

It really seems people have a problem with what Theory actually means.

Theory doesn't mean it actually happened a certain way.
Theory means a person believes it may haved happen a certain way, without any evidence, it's just a theory.

It seems people don't have any idea what theory means, it's doesn't mean something actually happened.

Go get any dictionary and look up the definition of what Theory means.

It's just someone's Theory on how something may haved happen.

Without any evidence it's just someone's Theory of Opinion. As to how something may haved happen.
:facepalm:
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Ok, what caused the big bang to happen.
Why do you ask? Why would you care?

Shouldn't you be demanding more evidence to validate your belief that your god has existed eternally?
Shouldn't you be asking why he did nothing for 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of eternity before creating the universe?
Shouldn't you be asking why he created A&E as he did, knowing they would disobey him?
Shouldn't you be asking why he blamed all sin on A&E when all they did was what he knew they would do?

So many questions affecting your beliefs. And here you are asking questions about a scientific event. Ridiculous.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The bible is the source of all evidence and proof for all Christians.

Indeed. More accurately...
The bible is the only source of all evidence for all Christians.

It's not good evidence.
It's not plausible evidence.
It is self-contradictory.
It contains stories that are easily dismissed by facts.
It makes much use of first-person testimony where it is obvious that information could not have been obtained directly by the writer.

Why anyone would put any credence into something like the bible is one of the great mysteries of life.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Indeed. More accurately...
The bible is the only source of all evidence for all Christians.

It's not good evidence.
It's not plausible evidence.
It is self-contradictory.
It contains stories that are easily dismissed by facts.
It makes much use of first-person testimony where it is obvious that information could not have been obtained directly by the writer.

Why anyone would put any credence into something like the bible is one of the great mysteries of life.

So you say.

Just because you can't handle the bible, ho well that's you

As a Christian the bible is all the evidence that i need.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Why do you ask? Why would you care?

Shouldn't you be demanding more evidence to validate your belief that your god has existed eternally?
Shouldn't you be asking why he did nothing for 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of eternity before creating the universe?
Shouldn't you be asking why he created A&E as he did, knowing they would disobey him?
Shouldn't you be asking why he blamed all sin on A&E when all they did was what he knew they would do?

So many questions affecting your beliefs. And here you are asking questions about a scientific event. Ridiculous.

Actually i don't care, But i do like to know what caused the Big Bang, and then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And Ect--------------------?

Can you explain all that?
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Actually i don't care, But i do like to know what caused the Big Bang, and then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And Ect--------------------?

Can you explain all that?

Faithofchristian,
What you have asked is simple, The Almighty God is the First Cause. Jesus, Who was called Michael, when inheaven, was The Second Cause. After Jesus was Created, called The Only Begotten Son of God, meaning that Jesus was Unique in all Creation, because God Created Jesus when no other thing was Created, Creating and forming Jesus completely by Himself. Every other thing in Creation as Created FOR Jesus and THROUGH Jesus, Colossians 1:15-20.
It is impossible for men to understand how God Created the heavens and the earth. Men are far to stupid, they cannot understand God’s ways, Job 37:5, Isaiah 55:8,9.
One thing is for sure, the Universe was not started with a Big Bang, which is an unlikely, Half thought out,Theory.
In the first place, it is an impossibility for all the Universe to be reduced to a Singularity,because there is,just so much space in every Atom. If our earth was reduced until no more space existed, it would still be, at least the size of softball. How would that account for the trillions of heavenly bodies??
The most troubling thing about Science is; they have tried to take The Almighty God out of the equation, which is like taking the Speed of Light, Squared,out of the Energy Formula. Could you ever come to the correct answer???
Besides that, there is a basic law of all explosions; explosions cause chaos, the greater the Explosion, the greater the Chaos.
How then, in anyone’s psychotic noodle could the greatest explosion EVER, cause Complete Harmony of the heavens. The heavens are even called, The Cosmos, which means Harmony.
To tell the truth, I have a great problem, when someone starts out with an impossibility, and then goes to elaborate even more on an impossible Theory.
You know, the Bible even addresses people like that, at Romans 1:18-25.
There are two kinds of Religion, Natural Religion, and Revealed Religion. Natural Religion, we get from a study of the things that God Created. Revealed Religion comes from the things we learn from Gods Word, The Holy Bible.
Is there anything in nature that man can make? We even have several branches of Science that try to make even an inferior copy, so as to help mankind cope with his existence.
Agape!!!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So you say.

Just because you can't handle the bible, ho well that's you

As a Christian the bible is all the evidence that i need.
Why do you think that he "cannot handle the Bible"? Most atheists have no problem handling it. We understand it better than many Christians that have to stop reasoning when confronted with the endless genocide bigotry and general evil in the book. We do not have to generate false narratives to explain the evils of the Bible. Literalists do have to jump through those hoops.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Actually i don't care, But i do like to know what caused the Big Bang, and then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And then what caused that to happen
And Ect--------------------?

Can you explain all that?
The abbreviation for et cetera is etc.

The best way to learn what cause the Big Bang is to study physics. Not to read a book of myths.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Faithofchristian,
What you have asked is simple, The Almighty God is the First Cause. Jesus, Who was called Michael, when inheaven, was The Second Cause. After Jesus was Created, called The Only Begotten Son of God, meaning that Jesus was Unique in all Creation, because God Created Jesus when no other thing was Created, Creating and forming Jesus completely by Himself. Every other thing in Creation as Created FOR Jesus and THROUGH Jesus, Colossians 1:15-20.
It is impossible for men to understand how God Created the heavens and the earth. Men are far to stupid, they cannot understand God’s ways, Job 37:5, Isaiah 55:8,9.
One thing is for sure, the Universe was not started with a Big Bang, which is an unlikely, Half thought out,Theory.
In the first place, it is an impossibility for all the Universe to be reduced to a Singularity,because there is,just so much space in every Atom. If our earth was reduced until no more space existed, it would still be, at least the size of softball. How would that account for the trillions of heavenly bodies??
The most troubling thing about Science is; they have tried to take The Almighty God out of the equation, which is like taking the Speed of Light, Squared,out of the Energy Formula. Could you ever come to the correct answer???
Besides that, there is a basic law of all explosions; explosions cause chaos, the greater the Explosion, the greater the Chaos.
How then, in anyone’s psychotic noodle could the greatest explosion EVER, cause Complete Harmony of the heavens. The heavens are even called, The Cosmos, which means Harmony.
To tell the truth, I have a great problem, when someone starts out with an impossibility, and then goes to elaborate even more on an impossible Theory.
You know, the Bible even addresses people like that, at Romans 1:18-25.
There are two kinds of Religion, Natural Religion, and Revealed Religion. Natural Religion, we get from a study of the things that God Created. Revealed Religion comes from the things we learn from Gods Word, The Holy Bible.
Is there anything in nature that man can make? We even have several branches of Science that try to make even an inferior copy, so as to help mankind cope with his existence.
Agape!!!


Can you give the book and chapter and verses as to where it clearly states that Jesus is Michael the Arch-Angel.
Where's that written at, in what book of the Bible and chapter and verses
 
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