Why do people expect God, do miracles?

[InvestigateTruth]

The ways we live our lives. I'm quite fond of the quote attributed to Sitting Bull. "Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good; and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most". Pretty much that. Do we feed our negative, selfish, hurtful, vengeful self, or do we feed our spiritual, loving, compassionate self?

Do we give ourselves over to fear, or to love? If we don't learn those lessons in this life, we'll have to learn them in the next. The less baggage we bring with us, the more buoyant we are starting the next.

Then Jesus, God, Bible has nothing to do with it?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, when it says, dead shall rise, that exactly means that. A physical event, nothing else.

When it says the dead shall rise it means exactly what it says, a spiritual event, nothing else.
It means that the spiritually dead shall rise from the grave of spiritual ignorance.
That is exactly what happened to 'some people' when Christ returned in the person of Baha'u'llah.
The others have remained in their graves, at least so far.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

“Say: The heavens have been folded together, and the earth is held within His grasp, and the corrupt doers have been held by their forelock, and still they understand not. They drink of the tainted water, and know it not. Say: The shout hath been raised, and the people have come forth from their graves, and arising, are gazing around them. Some have made haste to attain the court of the God of Mercy, others have fallen down on their faces in the fire of Hell, while still others are lost in bewilderment. The verses of God have been revealed, and yet they have turned away from them. His proof hath been manifested, and yet they are unaware of it. And when they behold the face of the All-Merciful, their own faces are saddened, while they are disporting themselves. They hasten forward to Hell Fire, and mistake it for light. Far from God be what they fondly imagine! Say: Whether ye rejoice or whether ye burst for fury, the heavens are cleft asunder, and God hath come down, invested with radiant sovereignty. All created things are heard exclaiming: “The Kingdom is God’s, the Almighty, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.””
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 41-42

 

[Windwalker]

Then Jesus, God, Bible has nothing to do with it?

I didn't say that. Obviously God is the Source of creation, and that is what we are to attempt to align ourselves with in how we live. When we live in accord with that, then life is experienced as good. The big three: Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. Feeding the good dog, so to speak connects with God. Jesus taught the Way, and the Bible contains a history of the teachings of that way, evolving as it was. That Way and that Light is also found in other religion's teachings as well. Jesus may be understood in a number of ways, but hopefully those ways point to that Light.

But I do not believe you have to converted to the Christian religion to know God.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This is sort of continuation of another thread: Suppose today, God sends a Savior

What I see, is almost all people, think, the true God, and true Messengers are supposed to do Miracles.


Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?

i mean, if the people do not cooperate with His messengers, and do not follow His guide, do you still expect a true God make everything right Miraclesly? And if that does not happen, do you conclude that, the Messenger was not from the God?

Is that a realistic expectation? Why?

Who says, the true God must do Miracles, by breaking the Laws of nature, and make things happen Miraclesly?

The Bible says God and believers do miracles and to expect them. MT 17:20, MK 16:17, JN 14:12, LK 1:37, 1 Cor 12:10 etc.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Bible says God and believers do miracles and to expect them. MT 17:20, MK 16:17, JN 14:12, LK 1:37, 1 Cor 12:10 etc.

Do you believe story of Adam and Eve, is literally true too?

 

[Brian2]

This is sort of continuation of another thread: Suppose today, God sends a Savior

What I see, is almost all people, think, the true God, and true Messengers are supposed to do Miracles.


Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?

Because that is what the Bible says.
Because humanity cannot do it by ourselves.

i mean, if the people do not cooperate with His messengers, and do not follow His guide, do you still expect a true God make everything right Miraclesly? And if that does not happen, do you conclude that, the Messenger was not from the God?

Is that a realistic expectation? Why?

I expect the Messiah to raise the dead, judge everyone on the earth, change the rulership on the earth.
Those who do not cooperate will be judged accordingly.

Who says, the true God must do Miracles, by breaking the Laws of nature, and make things happen Miraclesly?

Well actually it is the Bible, both OT and NT which shows that the Messiah was to do and did miracles when He came 2000 years ago.
When the Messiah returns the time has passed for God to say to us "Play nice children". When He returns it is to judge and to set up His Kingdom.
Why would anyone who has read the Bible ask why do people expect miracles, as in a show of power from the Messiah, who is to come as the ruling King and get rid of evil? Who told you that was not going to happen?

 

[Trailblazer]

Because that is what the Bible says.
Because humanity cannot do it by ourselves.

I expect the Messiah to raise the dead, judge everyone on the earth, change the rulership on the earth.
Those who do not cooperate will be judged accordingly.

That is what you believe the Bible says.

 

[Brian2]

That is what you believe the Bible says.

And you believe what Baha'i tells you.

 

[Trailblazer]

And you believe what Baha'i tells you.

And you believe what Christianity tells you.
I am really sorry you cannot understand that after all these years.

 

[We Never Know]

This is sort of continuation of another thread: Suppose today, God sends a Savior

What I see, is almost all people, think, the true God, and true Messengers are supposed to do Miracles.


Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?

i mean, if the people do not cooperate with His messengers, and do not follow His guide, do you still expect a true God make everything right Miraclesly? And if that does not happen, do you conclude that, the Messenger was not from the God?

Is that a realistic expectation? Why?

Who says, the true God must do Miracles, by breaking the Laws of nature, and make things happen Miraclesly?

"Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?"

Short answer. Because he supposedly can.
Why let suffering happen if you can stop it?

If your children/child was suffering... Wouldn't you do all you could to help it/ease it/stop it?

 

[Trailblazer]

"Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?"

Short answer. Because he supposedly can.

God can also wipe out every living thing off the face of the earth, so do you want God to do that too?
Do you understand the error in your reasoning?
Because He can is not a good reason to do anything.

 

[We Never Know]

God can also wipe out every living thing off the face of the earth, so do you want God to do that too?
Do you understand the error in your reasoning?
Because He can is not a good reason to do anything.

We humans are the worst species on the planet. If a god wiped out all humans, other species and earth would be better off.
So tell me how we humans are a "good" creation.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Do you believe story of Adam and Eve, is literally true too?

No. I am not a believer.

 

[Windwalker]

I will explain how. Please bear with me.
Do you believe in the world to come everyone is equal? I mean, do you believe, both the bad or good people will be equally treated or be at the same station in the world to come?

I've answered all your questions you posed following this post, and I haven't heard you explain how yet? Can you clarify now at this point?

 

[Brian2]

Besides the fact that scripture defines a false prophet and Jesus fits it perfectly; this argument assumes that the common 2nd temple Jew had the scripture memorized.

I say the same about Baha'u'llah and can see how that works for him.
How does Jesus fit the definition of a false prophet?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"Why do people expect God to miraculously make everything right, to solve humanity problems?"

Short answer. Because he supposedly can.
Why let suffering happen if you can stop it?

If your children/child was suffering... Wouldn't you do all you could to help it/ease it/stop it?

As per scriptures, making everything right, has to do with Spiritual training and growth of humanity. Spiritual growth is like growing a tree from a seed. A seed cannot Turn to Tree immediately. Our Spiritual growth also cannot happen in a twinkling of an eye. It is a process. So, maybe it can be said God cannot make that happen in a twinkling of an eye.

 

[Brian2]

As per scriptures, making everything right, has to do with Spiritual training and growth of humanity. Spiritual growth is like growing a tree from a seed. A seed cannot Turn to Tree immediately. Our Spiritual growth also cannot happen in a twinkling of an eye. It is a process. So, maybe it can be said God cannot make that happen in a twinkling of an eye.

1Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…

If you are alluding to the above scripture, that is about the resurrection into an immortal and imperishable body and the transformation of the living to that body when Jesus returns to raise the dead (those in Christ who have physically died) and take His still living people with Him.
It is not about any process of character transformation.

 

[dybmh]

I say the same about Baha'u'llah and can see how that works for him.
How does Jesus for the definition of a false prophet?

The false prophet is defined in Deuteronomy 13.

​

... If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.​

So there are 3 criteria:

1. Performs wonders
2. Accurately predicts the future
3. Promotes a god which "you have not known"

Each time that Jesus speaks about "my father", that is speaking about a god which the Jewish people do not know. It's blatently obvious for a Jewish person. The way we speak it would be "our father". Not "my father". When I read the gospels, this and other things were major red-flags. It's not that he didn't fulfill prophecy, it's that he is "off the path".

In addition to this, Jesus himself admits this.

John 8:

​

The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”​

​

Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”​

​

Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”​

​

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.​

So, the law states a false prophet will say "Let us go after other gods which you have not known". And Jesus admits "You do not know me or my Father". That's it. The nail in the coffin. The smoking gun. He refers to his god as "my father" not "our father" repeatedly throughout the gospels, and says that this deity is unknown to the Jewish people. That is what a false prophet does.

Per Deuteronomy 13, these people are indeed sent from God, but as a test for the Jewish people. Christians of that time, and even today, are participating in the test.

 

[Brian2]

The false prophet is defined in Deuteronomy 13.

​

... If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.​

So there are 3 criteria:

1. Performs wonders
2. Accurately predicts the future
3. Promotes a god which "you have not known"

Each time that Jesus speaks about "my father", that is speaking about a god which the Jewish people do not know. It's blatently obvious for a Jewish person. The way we speak it would be "our father". Not "my father". When I read the gospels, this and other things were major red-flags. It's not that he didn't fulfill prophecy, it's that he is "off the path".

In addition to this, Jesus himself admits this.

John 8:

​

The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”​

​

Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”​

​

Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”​

​

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.​

So, the law states a false prophet will say "Let us go after other gods which you have not known". And Jesus admits "You do not know me or my Father". That's it. The nail in the coffin. The smoking gun. He refers to his god as "my father" not "our father" repeatedly throughout the gospels, and says that this deity is unknown to the Jewish people. That is what a false prophet does.

Per Deuteronomy 13, these people are indeed sent from God, but as a test for the Jewish people. Christians of that time, and even today, are participating in the test.

Jesus does speak of His Father as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so in that respect Jesus is speaking of the same God as the Jews have, the God that your ancestors knew.
I would see other prophets who blatantly wanted said to follow other gods, the Baals etc, as being false prophets in that respect.
When Jesus was saying in John 8 and other places that the people He was speaking to did not know Him or His Father, He was speaking to specific people among the Jews and was judging them and was not saying that about the whole nation.
The fact is that Jesus did say that His God and Father was both Father of Himself and of His disciples and the Jewish nation but Jesus did seem to distinguish Himself as being God's Son in a special way, as you notice.
I also see this in the Hebrew scriptures concerning the Messiah even if you may not see the same passages as Messianic.
This first passage is about the one who inherits the nations and is given the ends of the earth as a possession.

Psalm 2:7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
I suppose there are plenty

This next one is about the horn (strength) of David, imo the Messiah, who specifically calls God "My Father".
He is appointed to be God's firstborn. (and presumably that means to rule the nations as the Son in Psalm 2 does)

Psalm 89:24 My faithful love will be with him,
and through my name his horn[f] will be exalted.
25 I will set his hand over the sea,
his right hand over the rivers.
26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,
my God, the Rock my Savior.’
27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
and my covenant with him will never fail.
29 I will establish his line forever,
his throne as long as the heavens endure.

This Psalm goes on to say what will happen to this anointed one, what the Jews would do to Him, and the Psalmist wonders after that, how long will God be angry.
This is not about David, whose life was not cut off in his youth.

Psalm 89:38 But you have rejected, you have spurned,
you have been very angry with your anointed one.
39 You have renounced the covenant with your servant
and have defiled his crown in the dust.
40 You have broken through all his walls
and reduced his strongholds to ruins.
41 All who pass by have plundered him;
he has become the scorn of his neighbors.
42 You have exalted the right hand of his foes;
you have made all his enemies rejoice.
43 Indeed, you have turned back the edge of his sword
and have not supported him in battle.
44 You have put an end to his splendor
and cast his throne to the ground.
45 You have cut short the days of his youth;
you have covered him with a mantle of shame.
46 How long, Lord? Will you hide yourself forever?
How long will your wrath burn like fire?

The conclusion I draw is that Jesus God is the God of the Jews and He did not say to follow other Gods and that He is the Son of God in a special way, as the Hebrew Scriptures suggest.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I didn't say that. Obviously God is the Source of creation, and that is what we are to attempt to align ourselves with in how we live. When we live in accord with that, then life is experienced as good. The big three: Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. Feeding the good dog, so to speak connects with God. Jesus taught the Way, and the Bible contains a history of the teachings of that way, evolving as it was. That Way and that Light is also found in other religion's teachings as well. Jesus may be understood in a number of ways, but hopefully those ways point to that Light.

But I do not believe you have to converted to the Christian religion to know God.

Do you believe in Jesus and Bible, because of the Miracles?
If yes, you didn't see the miracles, so why believe them?
If no, then you are comforming to believe you don't need miracles, so, why would God do them?