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Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Nice poem.

Your post reminds me of the ongoing philosophical debate whether belief is voluntary The Ethics of Belief (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I guess you fall on the "no" side of this issue, sun rise?

That referenced section reminds me of determinism vs free will debates to some extent. I suspect there is no simple "A" or "B" answer but instead sometimes it's one and sometimes another and perhaps even a bit of both. I can only report my experience and note that I know others who have shared it.

In a way it's like people who have had an NDE. Their lives and beliefs tend to be profoundly affected by the experience They may say that they know there is life after death which for the sake of argument is a very strong belief. Someone studying NDEs might come to the conclusion that there's a decent chance of life after death based on all the experiential evidence
 

vulcanlogician

Well-Known Member
That referenced section reminds me of determinism vs free will debates to some extent. I suspect there is no simple "A" or "B" answer but instead sometimes it's one and sometimes another and perhaps even a bit of both. I can only report my experience and note that I know others who have shared it.

In a way it's like people who have had an NDE. Their lives and beliefs tend to be profoundly affected by the experience They may say that they know there is life after death which for the sake of argument is a very strong belief. Someone studying NDEs might come to the conclusion that there's a decent chance of life after death based on all the experiential evidence

I'm different from most atheists in that, even though I don't think NDEs are evidence of an afterlife (like most atheists), I still think it's okay for a person to find meaning in their NDE experience.

I'm not 100% clear on your answer to "Is belief voluntary?" It seems to be "sometimes." But, if that's the case, you would technically fall in the "yes" camp. Because even those who think belief can be voluntary admit that most of the time it isn't.

edit: But you also sound a bit agnostic about it, which (of course) exempts you from the "yes" camp.
 
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ppp

Well-Known Member
Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all?
Because the people who claim to see evidence, such as yourself, do not engage in sound practices of reasoning with respect to those god beliefs.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?
It is my opinion that there are two main reasons, and it could be one or both:

1) They were raised as a believer in a certain religion and they have seen no reason to change their religion.

2) If they are a believer, they see evidence for their religion being true and for God’s existence, but if they are an atheist, they do not see evidence for any religion being true and they do not see any evidence of God’s existence.

As a believer I can say that the reason I believe in my religion and in God is because of what ‘I consider’ to be the evidence. I was not raised in any religion or believing in God. In fact, I cannot even remember thinking about religion or God before I joined my religion during my first year of college.

Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all? I think that what we believe or disbelieve is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, education, life experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose to believe one thing or another.

In Islamic polemics, according to some polemicists, about 30% of the hardcore scholars are converts. Also, when you interact with YouTubers who have very famous shows in the polemic arena, a lot of Muslims are converts. Some are very highly astute in philosophy, theology and science. There are many atheists who have become Muslim and are now surprisingly educated in Islamic philosophy. I mean "many". An Atheist will not convert based on "because he said so" kind of polemics. And in my experience, speaking to all the atheists who have converted so far, they have all given rational reasons for their belief.

One could think I am singling out Islam but that's fine. Throughout the history of the Islamic civilisation as currently termed and taught, the discourse predominantly has been based on philosophical reasoning. Not just "belief because I was told so". Even in Christianity the tradition has been to reason, eternally.

The so called "evidence" seems like it has never been just belief based on personal experience or just "they said so" until recent times. What I mean by that is the leaders and philosophers in the respective theologies have not been like that. Not some preacher around the corner.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If humans always owned natural freedom to speak.

Family is first.

Adults have sex. Have babies their choice. Baby cannot fend for itself.

Parents tell the baby they care protect it. Teach it to gather hunt food. Keep baby safe until old enough to fend for self.

Stories are all about natural life. No choice in natural life's only story.

No other stories no coercion is pretty basic humans honest truth. As told to natural aware just a human self first.

If you allowed coercion. You own a choice in the coercion by your own behaviour and lifestyle.

If you said I will not allow coercion to affect my natural life. You would not then be coerced. Simple diction warning existed as advice.

Humans used words applied word meanings for coercive persuasion named sophism. The sciences.

You were all told it was a humans cunning contrivance.

Most of you didn't bother to investigate natural life purpose for yourself. It's easy to get others to do all the work as you're coerced to be lazy also.

Civilization status.
 

GardenLady

Active Member
I'm not sure the "evidence" is the right term for why some people believe. Science cannot detect that which is not part of the natural world; we should not expect it to. Perhaps philosophy/logic/theology is the right way to describe how some people believe, in combination with being raised in a faith (though not necessarily the one they end up in). As a case in point, I would cite CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity." It is not about evidence in the scientific sense. It is about human experience and philosophy and theology.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I think quite a few religions are either non-theistic or are not concerned with an upper-case God. :)

Could it be true that in using the word or referring to "evidence" one is taking on board something from atheism? Are people with a religion normally concerned with evidence? I'm not sure...

If you study the subject of religion, it has always been based on "evidence seeking". And it is not something from atheism, it is based on what a Muslim would call "fithrah". Many, many, many religious scholars throughout history have been concerned with evidence. I cant say all religions because I cant study all the religions in the whole world, but at least in the largest religions in terms of population it is the case.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I do not think most religious people are concerned with evidence.... I think they just believe and don't know why. ;)
I agree! My parents were typical British Christians - there wasn't a bible in the house and they went to church regularly - for "hatches, matches and despatches."
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?
It is my opinion that there are two main reasons, and it could be one or both:

1) They were raised as a believer in a certain religion and they have seen no reason to change their religion.

2) If they are a believer, they see evidence for their religion being true and for God’s existence, but if they are an atheist, they do not see evidence for any religion being true and they do not see any evidence of God’s existence.

As a believer I can say that the reason I believe in my religion and in God is because of what ‘I consider’ to be the evidence. I was not raised in any religion or believing in God. In fact, I cannot even remember thinking about religion or God before I joined my religion during my first year of college.

Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all? I think that what we believe or disbelieve is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, education, life experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose to believe one thing or another.
I think that you are correct in listing how people are raised as the number one factor in what they believe. This is because belief is largely based on trusting our sources -- our parents, our neighbors, those in our religious community, etc.

I think it is actually very rare for someone to believe according to evidence. Most people filter what registers with them -- they see all the evidence that supports their view, but ignore the evidence against. This well known tendency is call Confirmation Bias.
 
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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I agree that we should not be influenced by our desires, by either love or hate. Baha'u'llah said that in so many words:

"O My brother! When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth.
....... Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error."

Bahá’u’lláh, Tablet of the True Seeker, p. 264

That is a good point. We should want to know the truth, whatever it is. We should not base truth on what we desire.

If I based my belief in God upon what I want and what I think is fair, I could not believe in God, because I believe that life is unfair and nature is cruel and I don't want to believe in a God who designed that. However, I try to put my ego desires aside because I know those will only lead me astray.

I can safely rule out that if God exists God is not fair, nor benevolent and has an extreme affection for brute physical forces, or perhaps God is not all powerful and has limits as well.

I think people can have a sense of fairness without it being ego.

I also think belief is never a choice until you have equal amounts of evidence for and against so that you could tip the scales either way.

Information, experience, and evidence affect belief or disbelief.

Beliefs also can go beyond rational reasons and be based on lack of quality information.

Beliefs can also be rooted in trusted sources that have never been adequately tested, if they can be adequately tested.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?
It is my opinion that there are two main reasons, and it could be one or both:

1) They were raised as a believer in a certain religion and they have seen no reason to change their religion.

2) If they are a believer, they see evidence for their religion being true and for God’s existence, but if they are an atheist, they do not see evidence for any religion being true and they do not see any evidence of God’s existence.

As a believer I can say that the reason I believe in my religion and in God is because of what ‘I consider’ to be the evidence. I was not raised in any religion or believing in God. In fact, I cannot even remember thinking about religion or God before I joined my religion during my first year of college.

Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all? I think that what we believe or disbelieve is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, education, life experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose to believe one thing or another.

Well, all of your argument rests on your definition of religion. The problem is that for some definitions as an atheist I am not religious and for others I am.

So you were raised in a religion, where I am not religious and I were raised in one, where we both are. What now?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?
It is my opinion that there are two main reasons, and it could be one or both:

1) They were raised as a believer in a certain religion and they have seen no reason to change their religion.

2) If they are a believer, they see evidence for their religion being true and for God’s existence, but if they are an atheist, they do not see evidence for any religion being true and they do not see any evidence of God’s existence.

As a believer I can say that the reason I believe in my religion and in God is because of what ‘I consider’ to be the evidence. I was not raised in any religion or believing in God. In fact, I cannot even remember thinking about religion or God before I joined my religion during my first year of college.

Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all? I think that what we believe or disbelieve is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, education, life experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose to believe one thing or another.

This was always a question which bothered me as well.

I suspect there is a unconscious component to this. We consciously rely on our feelings. So we get a feeling whether something is right or wrong which comes from our unconscious which gets "programed" by who know what.

Likely, as you said childhood upbringing.

So our beliefs feel right, no reason to question them. Not until something consciously hit you hard enough to question your personal sense of right and wrong.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
This was always a question which bothered me as well.

I suspect there is a unconscious component to this. We consciously rely on our feelings. So we get a feeling whether something is right or wrong which comes from our unconscious which gets "programed" by who know what.

Likely, as you said childhood upbringing.

So our beliefs feel right, no reason to question them. Not until something consciously hit you hard enough to question your personal sense of right and wrong.

Yeah, like realizing the following.
Someone to someone else: You are wrong and I am right.
In reverse: No, you are wrong and I am right.
Me: That is weird, what is going on there. :)
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
The reason why I believe what I believe came from epiphanies from the ages of 14-22, and then discovering the words that described these concepts. For a long time I simply called myself an agnostic because I didn't know what syntheism is. As far as why I still believe, well, it's easy. If nature is God then I can understand it. If it is supernatural there is no way of understanding it. If nature is God then I know God rather than believing it. And syntheism is a system where we can work on building this God up to help accommodate the wise men we are. And, while I do associate myself with a variety of faiths I wouldn't claim that at their core is complete truth. I'm not an omnist however the case may be because there are some religions which have no basis for their claims, no matter how small or large that faith is. Everybody is just trying to understand everything in their own way and whether you are religious or not I can at least respect who you are and your view points, without the need to agree with them.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Why do people believe or disbelieve what they do?
It is my opinion that there are two main reasons, and it could be one or both:

1) They were raised as a believer in a certain religion and they have seen no reason to change their religion.

2) If they are a believer, they see evidence for their religion being true and for God’s existence, but if they are an atheist, they do not see evidence for any religion being true and they do not see any evidence of God’s existence.

As a believer I can say that the reason I believe in my religion and in God is because of what ‘I consider’ to be the evidence. I was not raised in any religion or believing in God. In fact, I cannot even remember thinking about religion or God before I joined my religion during my first year of college.

Why do some people see the evidence for a religion and for God so clearly whereas other people see no evidence at all? I think that what we believe or disbelieve is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, education, life experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose to believe one thing or another.
All people believe what they think is true because they are convinced of it somehow. How we are convinced something is true is different for each person. What constitutes good evidence varies with each person. This is why I was a believer and now I am not. It was not the evidence that changed but my criteria for evaluating the evidence changed. I studied epistemology and became convinced that my reasons for believing were not sound and were fallacious.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
All people believe what they think is true because they are convinced of it somehow. How we are convinced something is true is different for each person. What constitutes good evidence varies with each person. This is why I was a believer and now I am not. It was not the evidence that changed but my criteria for evaluating the evidence changed. I studied epistemology and became convinced that my reasons for believing were not sound and were fallacious.

I study skepticism and gave up on sound and fallacious. Funny how it works.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I'm not 100% clear on your answer to "Is belief voluntary?" It seems to be "sometimes." But, if that's the case, you would technically fall in the "yes" camp. Because even those who think belief can be voluntary admit that most of the time it isn't.

edit: But you also sound a bit agnostic about it, which (of course) exempts you from the "yes" camp.
I'm not 100% comfortable with the word "agnostic" in this context but it will do.
 
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