Why do not all see God?

[sridatta]

Why do not all see God?

Nobody sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium (through Lord in human form or Son of God). Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced.

 

[Dunemeister]

What do you mean by "God cannot be touched even by imagination"? Why isn't this possible? Why can we only experience God if he is mediated through a human form? Why can't we experience God directly by means of a faculty designed for the purpose? Why should God be unexperiencable if he is not detectable by sight?

 

[sandandfoam]

Why do not all see God?

I think a lot of it comes down to language.

 

[sridatta]

What do you mean by "God cannot be touched even by imagination"? Why isn't this possible? Why can we only experience God if he is mediated through a human form? Why can't we experience God directly by means of a faculty designed for the purpose? Why should God be unexperiencable if he is not detectable by sight?

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible because the absolute God is unimaginable. The absolute God comes in human form to give you the experience of His existence, in absence of which, you may deny the very existence of the absolute God and may become atheist (Astityeva….Veda). The identification of the human form in which the absolute God exists is the knowledge of God (Brahma Jnanam or Brahma Vidya).

The experience of the existence of the absolute God does not reveal any trace of the nature of the absolute God and hence God is always unimaginable. The only information about the absolute God is that God exists. “Aum Tat Sat” means that God exists and no more information about God is available. The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination. The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. These three adjectives indicate the works (Creation, rule and destruction) of God only and not the nature of the God. This is called as the information about the existence only (Sanmatra vada). God comes in human form, which is characterized by the awareness or chit.

 

[Dunemeister]

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible because the absolute God is unimaginable.

Again, I'm not really sure what this means. What is an "absolute" God as opposed to a "non-absolute" God, and why does God's being "absolute" render him unimaginable? And what does it mean to have "absolute" knowledge of something? Do you mean "exhaustive" or "accurate" or what? If you mean "exhaustive", please allow me to point out that it's possible to know something truly without knowing it exhaustively. I can say that I know my father although there are truths about him that I don't know. I know him accurately but not exhaustively. If you mean "accurate", that seems question begging. Perhaps humans are designed with a faculty by which knowledge of God is possible.

The absolute God comes in human form to give you the experience of His existence, in absence of which, you may deny the very existence of the absolute God and may become atheist (Astityeva….Veda). The identification of the human form in which the absolute God exists is the knowledge of God (Brahma Jnanam or Brahma Vidya).

Well, there are people who don't identify any supposed incarnation of a god. So it appears that incarnation isn't particularly helpful in giving us knowledge of God or in facilitating an experience of his existence. On the other hand, many people claim to have had experiences of God without identifying an incarnation. And there are people who have identified an incarnation and have subsequently become atheists (former Hindus, Christians, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses, for example). So at the very least, this claim seems dubious.

The experience of the existence of the absolute God does not reveal any trace of the nature of the absolute God and hence God is always unimaginable. The only information about the absolute God is that God exists.

Why think that? Even before I converted to Christianity I came to imagine what God was like. So clearly what God's like is imaginable. It seems question begging to assume that the only information about the absolute God is that God exists. Why assume that?

 

[sridatta]

[/font]

Again, I'm not really sure what this means. What is an "absolute" God as opposed to a "non-absolute" God, and why does God's being "absolute" render him unimaginable? And what does it mean to have "absolute" knowledge of something? Do you mean "exhaustive" or "accurate" or what? If you mean "exhaustive", please allow me to point out that it's possible to know something truly without knowing it exhaustively. I can say that I know my father although there are truths about him that I don't know. I know him accurately but not exhaustively. If you mean "accurate", that seems question begging. Perhaps humans are designed with a faculty by which knowledge of God is possible.



Well, there are people who don't identify any supposed incarnation of a god. So it appears that incarnation isn't particularly helpful in giving us knowledge of God or in facilitating an experience of his existence. On the other hand, many people claim to have had experiences of God without identifying an incarnation. And there are people who have identified an incarnation and have subsequently become atheists (former Hindus, Christians, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses, for example). So at the very least, this claim seems dubious.



Why think that? Even before I converted to Christianity I came to imagine what God was like. So clearly what God's like is imaginable. It seems question begging to assume that the only information about the absolute God is that God exists. Why assume that?

God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.


Such God comes to this world by entering a most deserving devotee known as Son of God to give HIS presence to us.

You can never ever see Absolute God, but you can see Him when HE is mediated that means when He enters a deserving devotee or son of God. His identification mark is His special divine knowledge preached by Him.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Its like looking at the sun....

You reflect it onto paper, in order to not burn your eyes out...

simple really....

from tiny acorns mighty oaks do grow

 

[sridatta]

Its like looking at the sun....

You reflect it onto paper, in order to not burn your eyes out...

simple really....

from tiny acorns mighty oaks do grow

God is seen through Son of God

The actual God is not seen by the eye since God is not imaginable even to the mind, intelligence or logic as per several Vedic statements. The Veda says that the eye cannot see God. But the same Veda says that a blessed soul can see God. This contradiction is easily removed by taking original God for the first statement and mediated God in human form for the second statement. God is not pervading all over the creation because the Veda says that God created the universe to see and enjoy it. If you pervade all over the cinema and become that cinema itself, you cannot see and enjoy it. The Veda says that nothing in the world is God . The Veda also says that God entered the world after creating it. If God has already pervaded all over the universe, there is no meaning in saying that God entered the universe. When the Veda says that this entire world is God, Ramanuja interpreted it as the world being under the control of God. You call a kingdom by the name Kalinga, when it is under the control of King Kalinga.

 

[Mr Cheese]

God is seen through Son of God

The actual God is not seen by the eye since God is not imaginable even to the mind, intelligence or logic as per several Vedic statements. The Veda says that the eye cannot see God. But the same Veda says that a blessed soul can see God. This contradiction is easily removed by taking original God for the first statement and mediated God in human form for the second statement. God is not pervading all over the creation because the Veda says that God created the universe to see and enjoy it. If you pervade all over the cinema and become that cinema itself, you cannot see and enjoy it. The Veda says that nothing in the world is God . The Veda also says that God entered the world after creating it. If God has already pervaded all over the universe, there is no meaning in saying that God entered the universe. When the Veda says that this entire world is God, Ramanuja interpreted it as the world being under the control of God. You call a kingdom by the name Kalinga, when it is under the control of King Kalinga.

The upanishads state:

Into blinding darkness enter those who worship the unmanifest and into still greater darkness those who take delight in the manifest.

Different indeed they declare what results from the manifest and distinct they say what comes out of the unmanifest. This is what we heard from the wise who explained these truths to us.

He who understands both the manifest and the unmanifest together, crosses death through the unmanifest and attains immortality through the manifest.
Covered with the golden disc is the face of truth. Uncover it, O Pusan, so that I who love truth may be able to see it.

O Pusan, the one seer, O controller, O sun, offspring of Prajapati, bring out your radiant rays and focus your radiance so that I may be able to see the auspicious form of yours. Who so ever person is there beyond, that also I am.

–The Isa Upanishad

You seem lost....

What is God, and what is not God?

You are fixated on one aspect of God...
thinking that no other is important.


“Boundlessness is beyond definition, it is beyond the sum of all of its ‘parts.’ That is to say, if we put together all of the possible attributes and characteristics that could possibly exist in this universe, Boundlessness would embrace all of them and still be ‘larger’ beyond all limits – thus ultimately unimaginable, ungraspable, unknowable.

When a God-name is used, we must always keep in mind that it represents only a small fragment of divine Boundlessness. There are may God-names in Hebrew that describe attributes. Still, time and time again the sages caution us to be careful not to confuse the name of an attribute with the source itself.”

--David A Cooper

 

[sridatta]

The upanishads state:


Different indeed they declare what results from the manifest and distinct they say what comes out of the unmanifest. This is what we heard from the wise who explained these truths to us.

--David A Cooper

From Vacant Space To The Present Human Form


The atheist says that God does not exist. For him God is nothing i.e., vacant space. This is the first stage. When he sees miracles he becomes the believer in God. He accepts God as some power or energy. The power or energy is also formless, like vacant space. So the concept of God is near to his previous concept and thus the atheist (Scientist) accepts the formless (Nirakara) God very easily. The third stage is God with form (Sakara). In this stage statues in the human form are introduced. The training is given to do the sixteen upacharas (services) to these statues in human form. This training indicates that they have to worship the God in human form in this way. The sixteen upacharas are actually related to the human form only. For eg: the first upachara ‘Aavahanam’ means invitation corresponds to the human being only and not to inert statue. The statue in the temple is better than the statue in your house.

Why? Because in the temple the ‘Pranaprathista’ i.e., initiation of life is done to the statue. This again indicates that you have to worship the statue with life. The concept is the inert statue plus life is equal to human being. Therefore in the temple the statue indicates that you have to worship the statue with life i.e., the human form of God only. Like this you are slowly trained to worship the human form of the God by the sixteen upacharas. In this training when your egoism and jealousy is completely destroyed now the human form of the God is introduced. Unless your egoism and jealousy are completely destroyed you cannot accept the human form directly. So the worship of the inert statue in the human form introduces the concept of human form, then the initiation of life (Prana pratishta) introduces the concept of living human form. Thus this is a gradual transformation of you by reducing your egoism and jealousy. When your egoism and jealousy are completely removed, the final human form of God is introduced. Only a particular man like Lord Krishna is God. This is Advaita philosophy, which is extended to every man due to the same jealousy and egoism. If every man is God, nobody requires salvation.

Like this when you are travelling from vacant space to formless energy or power then you are accepting the human form but without life which is a statue in your house. In the same stage you are accepting the statue plus life in the temple, which means only a living human form. Finally you are catching the God in the present living human form. Whatever I preached here is having the best practical proof. Hanuman, the greatest of the human beings in this world worshipped Rama only who was a living human being in his time. He did not go down i.e.; he never meditated upon the formless God or the statues. In Valmiki Ramayana such things are not mentioned. He never worshipped even previous human incarnations like ‘Vamana’. He worshipped only the human incarnation present in his generation.

Similarly Radha never worshipped ‘Rama’ but worshipped only Krishna who was the human incarnation of her generation. As per Bhagavatham Radha also never worshipped the statues or the formless God. Hanuman became Brahma and Radha became the queen of the 15th World ‘Goloka’. Nobody in this world will attain a better position than these two. So your spiritual journey must end in recognizing the human incarnation of God present in your generation. God is impartial and so He comes down in human form in every generation. If you say Lord Krishna is only the latest incarnation, then that generation was blessed and God became partial. Therefore God is coming in human form in every human generation. People are not recognizing Him because after the incarnation of Krishna the egoism and jealousy are growing continuously in all the human beings. The man did not recognize the God coming in human form after Krishna. After Krishna and before ‘Kalki’ is ‘Kaliyuga’. Due to the influence of the ‘Kali’ people are full of egoism and jealousy and so they cannot recognize the human form of God in ‘Kaliyuga’.

God comes in different human forms in the same time in various levels for the sake of devotees in various levels. He comes as a schoolteacher for the school students, as a lecturer for the college students and as a Professor for the post graduate students. Since the school students and college students are large in number he comes down as a number of schoolteachers and college lecturers. Such incarnations are called as ‘Amsavataras’, which mean the incarnations of a small portion of His power. The incarnation of His radiation is called ‘Kalavatara’ which is the formless God like light worshipped by some believers. The light travels as waves and the Siva Linga in the temple represents this formless God. Since the Post graduation students are less in number only one professor comes down and He is the ‘Pari poorna tamavathara’ i.e., the most complete incarnation, which reveals the final true knowledge. He is called ‘Satguru’ or the original Datta in the human form.

Datta exists in two forms. 1) The three headed form. 2) One headed form. The three headed form indicates ‘Para brahma’ (God) who creates, rules and destroys the Universe by His three faces. The other single headed form is the external human form in which the three-headed form exists as the internal form, which is not seen. This is the essence of the ‘Eka Mukha Datta’ (One headed from) and ‘Trimukha Datta’ (The three headed form). Therefore the Schoolteacher shows miracles and converts the atheist into theist. The college lecturer trains the theists in the worship of the statues having human form to remove ego and jealousy in the man and make him a devotee. The last university professor gives the final true knowledge that God comes down in human form only and that He (the professor) Himself is God.

 

[Mr Cheese]

verbal gymnastics

I hardly think RABBI david cooper is an atheist....

sigh

spouting dogma, from whatever source, or doctrine, be it religious, mystical or from trampolines, does not make it true....

"Those that know do not speak
Those that speak do not know"



Thirty spokes unite in one hub;

It is precisely where there is nothing, that we find the usefulness of the wheel.

We fire clay and make vessels;

It is precisely where there’s no substance, that we find the usefulness of clay pots.

We chisel out doors and windows;

It is precisely in these empty spaces, that we find the usefulness of the room.

Therefore, we regard having something beneficial;

But having nothing as useful.

–The Tao Te Chin (Chap. 11)

 

[Mr Cheese]

From Vacant Space To The Present Human Form

ah you're just cutting and pasting...ok

 

[sridatta]

verbal gymnastics

I hardly think RABBI david cooper is an atheist....

sigh

spouting dogma, from whatever source, or doctrine, be it religious, mystical or from trampolines, does not make it true....

"Those that know do not speak
Those that speak do not know"



Thirty spokes unite in one hub;

It is precisely where there is nothing, that we find the usefulness of the wheel.

We fire clay and make vessels;

It is precisely where there’s no substance, that we find the usefulness of clay pots.

We chisel out doors and windows;

It is precisely in these empty spaces, that we find the usefulness of the room.

Therefore, we regard having something beneficial;

But having nothing as useful.

–The Tao Te Chin (Chap. 11)

God is unimaginable there is no way to know Him. But Such God comes in human form to give His presence to us. He is known as Human Incarnation.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I believe God (at least my interpretation of what God is) to be as follows... God is imaginable and we all know and see God. God comes in every form imaginable...human, animal, plant, stone, everything that exists. We all see God, but we don't all recognize what God truly is. You can see God with your eyes both open and closed, for God is so great that God can not possibly go unseen. God is everywhere, everything. God is existence itself. But I choose to call it all Spirit, not necessarily "God". Nevertheless, that is what I would say God is. We all see God.

 

[zenzero]

Friend sridatta,

Why do not all see God?
Why do not all see God?

Nobody sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium (through Lord in human form or Son of God). Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced.

When there is no *god* how can he be Seen.
*god* is only a concept developed by humans for an understanding and that is that each smallest particle to the largest, what can be seen or cannot be seen are all manifestations of GOD including the individual who is trying to see .
How can one see himself? One can only be ONE with that and so it is called *MERGING* and what one does for that merging is a process which is meditation in different forms like prayers, japa, service, etc.

Love & rgds

 

[sridatta]

Friend sridatta,



When there is no *god* how can he be Seen.
*god* is only a concept developed by humans for an understanding and that is that each smallest particle to the largest, what can be seen or cannot be seen are all manifestations of GOD including the individual who is trying to see .
How can one see himself? One can only be ONE with that and so it is called *MERGING* and what one does for that merging is a process which is meditation in different forms like prayers, japa, service, etc.

Love & rgds

Hanuman studied all the Vedas and Shastras. He studied nine grammars from Sun. Nobody in creation can be equal to Hanuman in this scholastic ability of scriptures. Even though, Hanuman became the future Brahma, He never stated that He is God (Aham Brahmasmi). I am astonished to see these petty Advaita scholars who do not have one millionth knowledge of Hanuman speak Aham Brahmasmi! Hanuman always says ‘Dasoham’, which means that He is the humble servant of the Lord and never states ‘Soham’, which means that He is God. It is said that by remembering Hanuman the ghosts run away. The real ghost is this misconceived Advaita which will run away on remembering Hanuman.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

The actual God is not seen by the eye since God is not imaginable even to the mind, intelligence or logic as per several Vedic statements. The Veda says that the eye cannot see God. But the same Veda says that a blessed soul can see God. This contradiction is easily removed by taking original God for the first statement and mediated God in human form for the second statement.

The finite mind can not conceive of the infinite. So the mind has to be purified and focused so it will get out of the way so we can directly perceive God in the here and now. We do not need to die to join with God in this very life.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The finite mind can not conceive of the infinite. So the mind has to be purified and focused so it will get out of the way so we can directly perceive God in the here and now. We do not need to die to join with God in this very life.

I believe that to be very true as well. God is in the here and now, to be realized now, not necessarily just in the hereafter (afterlife).

 

[sridatta]

The finite mind can not conceive of the infinite. So the mind has to be purified and focused so it will get out of the way so we can directly perceive God in the here and now. We do not need to die to join with God in this very life.

God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined


The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam… Veda).

 

[DadBurnett]

Why do not all see God?

Nobody sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium (through Lord in human form or Son of God). Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced.

No man has seen God 1 John 4:16