Why do non-believers go to Hell?

[Ronald]

Only the incorragables who refuse (even when they see the White Throne) to serve God, will taste the second death. A JUST GOD must do justice. Each has multiple chances to believe and obey. You are given free will to choose life or death, YOU CHOOSE, He knows what you will choose, this is predestination, after you have squandered every one of his revealations of himself, golden opportunities to repent and come back to him. Ha satan is he, who wants to kill you.
The creator God, is perfecting everything, passing it through fire to burn off the dross, everything that will enter his kingdom will be perfect and cleansed, worthy of the King and the Kingdom.

 

[Master Vigil]

So basically god takes all the souls, and chooses which ones will go to heaven and which ones will go to hell. What a loving god that is. And not very just either. For you said god knows, than how can god judge us for what god does? And if god knows, what choice do we have?

 

[Ceridwen018]

Ronald,

You're just repeating yourself--not answering questions.

If god already knows if we're destined for heaven or not, how is it fair for him to be angry when we are just following our predetermined plan? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[LCMS Sprecher]

Ah... the problems of pre-destination.

 

[Master Vigil]

But even if you say god does not predestine things. I think that would be a contradiction of gods nature. For god is omnipotent and omniscient. Therefore I believe god should be the cause for everything. So then how can god judge his creations if god created them that way?

 

[Ardhanariswar]

But even if you say god does not predestine things. I think that would be a contradiction of gods nature. For god is omnipotent and omniscient. Therefore I believe god should be the cause for everything. So then how can god judge his creations if god created them that way?

what? if you start defining who God is, then why do you keep asking more questions? bah!


just cuz God is everywhere, doesnt mean that he started everything. look at the wars, humans started them. not God.

you are now talking about fate.

 

[Master Vigil]

I believe that everything humans do god is responsible for. So yes indeed, I believe god is resonsible for wars.

And if you say god isn't omnipotent of omniscient, than you are not talking about god.

 

[Sir Monks]

My Universalist side, says No. Universalism means universal salvation; all of us are going to "Heaven" when we die no matter what you believe or don't believe, and no matter what kind of person you were in this life. No one goes to "Hell" because there is no such phyiscal thing.

Now I hear the Christians gasping, "If you do not fear God, hell, or eternal damnation, what is your incentive to act morally and responsibly?"

We feel that people who live moral and ethical lives usually do so because they have a sense of responsibility to themselves and to others. Our incentive is that we want to live in a more sane, peaceful, and just world than the one we have at present, and we wish to pass on a better world to succeeding generations. To hold that moral and ethical living only occurs because people fear hell or damnation is to demean those who seek to lead morally and ethically responsible lives.

:hi:

Now that is a great point of view so that anything goes and one could justify ones sin without any repentance

 

[BIG gibb]

I dont really understand how we can say anyone is goign to hell and even if there is a hell at all.

thats another reason why i have problems with my own religion...being catholic it sickens me that the catholics i have talked ot think they know what God wants. no one knows so dont believe anyone even the pope.

 

[Green Gaia]

Now that is a great point of view so that anything goes and one could justify ones sin without any repentance

Sin and repentance are Christian concepts. I am not Christian. My morality and sense of right and wrong does not come from fear of being damned to a "Hell" if I do not do exactly as a "God" says.

 

[Performance Park]

In a nutshell, here is the argument:

1) God is God over all creation, believers and non-believers alike.

2) God has at least two defining traits we know of from the Bible--he is perfectly just and perfectly loving.

3) God created man to have fellowship with him and to glorify him.

4) God made a covenant with man; man broke the covenant, letting sin into the world.

5) God gave man the Law; if man complied perfectly with this Law, he could overcome sin and become reunited with God. Man, being corrupted by sin, could not do so. Indeed, the Law demonstrates how much man needs mercy from God to over come sin.

6) God, being loving as well as just, sent his own Son to become incarnate to live a life in perfect accord with the Law so he could be the perfect sacrifice for man's sin. By this sacrifice, the initial sin of Adam is atoned for by the sacrifice of one man, Jesus, and God's justice is served. Just as Adam brought all men into sin, we are promised that by faith in Christ, all men who so beleive can have their sins forgiven, as Christ's death paid for all debts. In this way, both perfect justice and pefect love are met in one plan. In fact, God loved us so much that his own Son had to suffer the pain of hell to buy us back from death. Imagine the pain endured when you must submit your own child to such suffering.

7) If you do not believe in Christ, you remain dead to sin and subject to God's justice. Since God cannot love someone who is unjust, you are subject to his wrath. No man can earn salvation-we cannot obey the law on our own; we can only be saved by grace through the Lord, Jesus Christ, a gift available to all who accept Christ as their savior.

There you go.

Well put!

 

[Ronald]

If I know what one of you is going to reply to what I say, and I don't force you to change what you are going to reply, then it's my fault you replied in the manner you did? You have a mind, you have the word of God, you have the right to choose, it is called free will. I may repeat myself, but it is worth repeating. As in the USA recruitment posters "Uncle Sam wants you." The word of God has said God wants you, He wants you to serve him willingly, there is no draft, the Word says He is allknowing, this is predestination, (not as some scholar said=irresistable grace) you either sign up or not. that simple. Your path has been illuminated along the way, God doesn't put stumbling blocks in your way, only stepping stones, clear directions. Ha satan on the other hand says "Hath God said?" wanting you to put yourself in Moses seat and choose to do what feels good. God leaves a light on for you, a lamp to your feet.

 

[Ceridwen018]

"1) God is God over all creation, believers and non-believers alike."

That is, if god exists. If he doesn't, then that is also the sme for believers and non-believers alike.

"2) God has at least two defining traits we know of from the Bible--he is perfectly just and perfectly loving."

We know this from the bible? The bible displays numerous accounts of god being outlandishly wrathful and sporadically unjust. Neither of these supposed 'traits' are backed by anything other than you wanting them to be that way.

"3) God created man to have fellowship with him and to glorify him."

Doesn't that seem a little weird to you that god created all these people so they would be his friend and tell him how great he is all the time? If I were to do the same thing it would seem awfully sadistic.

"4) God made a covenant with man; man broke the covenant, letting sin into the world."

A popular misconception. Evil didn't come from nothing--god had to have created it. Also, god knew man would break the covenent before the world began because he is omniscient. If he truly didn't want man to have broken the covenent, he would have done things differently.

"5) God gave man the Law; if man complied perfectly with this Law, he could overcome sin and become reunited with God. Man, being corrupted by sin, could not do so. Indeed, the Law demonstrates how much man needs mercy from God to over come sin."

It's like doctors injecting patients with illnesses so they'll have to seek expensive treatment from them.

"6) God, being loving as well as just, sent his own Son to become incarnate to live a life in perfect accord with the Law so he could be the perfect sacrifice for man's sin. By this sacrifice, the initial sin of Adam is atoned for by the sacrifice of one man, Jesus, and God's justice is served. Just as Adam brought all men into sin, we are promised that by faith in Christ, all men who so beleive can have their sins forgiven, as Christ's death paid for all debts. In this way, both perfect justice and pefect love are met in one plan. In fact, God loved us so much that his own Son had to suffer the pain of hell to buy us back from death. Imagine the pain endured when you must submit your own child to such suffering."

There are a ton of problems with this. First of all, why was a sacrifice needed? God could have 'saved us from sin' without sacrificing Jesus. Jesus does take us on a nice guilt trip though, doesn't he? As far as atoning for Adam's sin, that seems a little ridiculous. God created evil, and it was in god's plan for Adam to sin, so why is he making such a big deal about correcting his own mistake? Maybe so it won't seem like he made a mistake, perhaps?

Also, god didn't feel any pain when Jesus died because he is god and therefore above emotion.

"7) If you do not believe in Christ, you remain dead to sin and subject to God's justice. Since God cannot love someone who is unjust, you are subject to his wrath. No man can earn salvation-we cannot obey the law on our own; we can only be saved by grace through the Lord, Jesus Christ, a gift available to all who accept Christ as their savior."

Since when does not believing in god automatically make one unjust? That's Christian propaganda.

 

[Ronald]

Ceridwen,
So close!
You will never hear Christian Propaganda from me!
The righteous of all nations share in the world to come!
It is spoken of in the New Testament by Paul, Those without the law do by nature what the law requires. (not a direct quote)
God did not create evil! He created beings capable of doing evil. WHY? I Do Not Know!
If I endure to the end, I will know, Why!
He created ways to escape all forms of evil, (sometimes this is death) we are given free will to choose.
When one chooses his way, Psalms 53. My yoke is easy.

Looking for reasons to deny God? The world is full of them! Just choose the one you like the best, you will have a multitude of company, not only doing them, but approving of those doing likewise.
A beer commercial tells you "You only go around once, so grab all the Gusto!" If you choose to believe no after life, WHY NOT?
But, I believe, I must, then obey. You choose!
My God will not force you to believe, if you find this a fault, you have your reason to reject him.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

A beer commercial tells you "You only go around once, so grab all the Gusto!" If you choose to believe no after life, WHY NOT?

A counter question: if you choose to believe in an afterlife, why not? Look at history--the human beleif in an afterlife has caused a lot of suffering in this life....Inquisition, willingness to kill/die in war, and suicide bombings.

Ultimately, those who value this life, not the afterlife, are the ones who will make good choices in this life.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Ronald,

First of all, by creating things that were capable of evil, god created evil. There's no real philosophy even involved with this idea--it's black and white. If god is the creator of everything, then everything comes from god, including the evil...unless of course, humans were given the power to create, and then they created evil, but that is grounded on nothing....not that any of this is really grounded on anything as it is, but you get the idea.

 

[keevelish]

Who care's what God's motives were for creating us the way we are- He is bigger than all of us, and omniscient, and omnipotent and no matter what anyone says or does or whines about, he is still God and his way is the only way no matter what... some people sort of sound like a whiney little kid "why do I have to do it YOUR way?" (to a parent) Too bad, kids don't get their way, even if they think their way is the most logical.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

God did not create evil. evil as a thing does not exist. he created freewill. what actions and thoughts that humans do may be considered evil, but there aint no evil being. just as there aint no good being. its all in our actions.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

well anyways, back on subject. if christians think that non believers go to hell, its wrong. i mean, seriously, just thinking that YOU can judge people, is just wrong.

seriously, i dont think God condemns Jews to hell. can you imagine an innocent being like Anne Frank, so full of life, love and joy deserves to be in hell while putrid jesus freaks (who are phonies) and fundamentalists bask in the bliss of God?

i think not.

its a rotton idea. its all christian propaganda.

 

[Irenicas]

Woah, I'm just gonna jump in here... Has anyone talked about purgatory yet?