Why do Jehovah's Witnesses falsify the Bible?

[sooda]

yes there is only one God, nobody denies that either. Unfortunately you do not understand the Trinity.

So what?


Jesus was whole God and whole man at the same time. He possessed all the tributes of divinity including omnipotence and omniscience. When Jesus became man, he discarded all his divinity to be recognized as man (Phil 2:5-8). Thats why he did not "know" the day and thats why he did say "No one is good but God alone"
God literally became man.


Yes, Jesus did what his father wanted. Because Jesus is the flesh and his father is the soul. The body obeys the soul.


So what?

So what?

you pick out biblical passages without looking at the entire context. This is wrong and dangerous.
I also notice that you do not understand the Trinity, otherwise you would know that we Christians do not believe in three gods but only in one.

You are simply denying what goes against your dogma.

 

[calm]

You are simply denying what goes against your dogma.

No, nothing contradicts, you have to look at the Bible in context. If you pick out just a few passages from the Bible, then everyone can interpret something differently and that is wrong.

 

[sooda]

No, nothing contradicts, you have to look at the Bible in context. If you pick out just a few passages from the Bible, then everyone can interpret something differently and that is wrong.

Exactly.. and you aren't doing that.. Ask who, how, what, when and why. You need to understand the political situation at the time and who the writing is intended for.

Study a book at a time and put it in its historical time frame. You are being duped.

 

[calm]

Exactly.. and you aren't doing that.. Ask who, how, what, when and why. You need to understand the political situation at the time and who the writing is intended for.

Study a book at a time and put it in its historical time frame. You are being duped.

Every person whose spirit is connected to the Holy Spirit will understand the Bible.
Anyone who reads the Bible without the Holy Spirit is lost.
God did not bring His Word for all people, but only for the chosen and the righteous. No one except the chosen will go to heaven and no one except the righteous will live on earth forever. God only waits until the last of the chosen and the last of the righteous is saved. Then the end will come.

 

[sooda]

Every person whose spirit is connected to the Holy Spirit will understand the Bible.
Anyone who reads the Bible without the Holy Spirit is lost.
God did not bring His Word for all people, but only for the chosen and the righteous. No one except the chosen will go to heaven and no one except the righteous will live on earth forever. God only waits until the last of the chosen and the last of the righteous is saved. Then the end will come.

That is a HUGE load of guano. You are saying that ignorance is caused by the holy spirit.

God doesn't choose the Chosen.. The Chosen choose God. If you can't read and understand the scriptures or you have been voodooed.... and the fundies and JWs and Pentecostals always quack.. "you have to have the holy spirit BEFORE you read the Bible.

Guano.

 

[calm]

That is a HUGE load of guano. You are saying that ignorance is caused by the holy spirit.

God doesn't choose the Chosen.. The Chosen choose God. If you can't read and understand the scriptures or you have been voodooed.... and the fundies and JWs and Pentecostals always quack.. "you have to have the holy spirit BEFORE you read the Bible.

Guano.

That's not arrogance, that's the truth.
Yes, the chosen also elect God, but the chosen were elected by God. Only 144,000 people will go to heaven and these are the chosen Hebrews who have stayed with God. They will reign with God in heaven.

And without the Holy Spirit no one will understand the Word, not even the best biblical scholar.

 

[sooda]

That's not arrogance, that's the truth.
Yes, the chosen also elect God, but the chosen were elected by God. Only 144,000 people will go to heaven and these are the chosen Hebrews who have stayed with God. They will reign with God in heaven.

And without the Holy Spirit no one will understand the Word, not even the best biblical scholar.

LOLOL.. What a con man you are. Your version of religion dupes people and blames them if they question. You don't have the courage to let people question or the confidence to study honestly..

You claim your voodoo is correct because YOU have the Holy Spirit.

Religion should always be questioned. Jacob wrestled with God.. Abraham and Noah questioned God.

 

[calm]

LOLOL.. What a con man you are. Your version of religion dupes people and blames them if they question. You don't have the courage to let people question or the confidence to study honestly..

You claim your voodoo is correct because YOU have the Holy Spirit.

Religion should always be questioned. Jacob wrestled with God.. Abraham and Noah questioned God.

Asking questions is not a bad thing, but no one will understand the answer without the Holy Spirit.
I am not talking nonsense, there will only be 144,000 who go to heaven and they are the chosen Hebrews who stayed with god.

 

[sooda]

Asking questions is not a bad thing, but no one will understand the answer without the Holy Spirit.
I am not talking nonsense, there will only be 144,000 who go to heaven and they are the chosen Hebrews who stayed with god.

LOLOL.. 144,000 just means a really big number.. Its symbolic. Don't mock religion. Nobody believes that nonsense.

 

[blü 2]

yes there is only one God, nobody denies that either. Unfortunately you do not understand the Trinity.

There's only one God and he's not present in this scene, although Jesus is.

So what?

So Jesus, though according to Trinity doctrine 100% of God, has no idea what the Father has planned as the destiny of the universe. No, that makes no sense ─ Jesus, sent from heaven as God's envoy, has no more knowledge of what God has planned than the angels do.

Jesus was whole God and whole man at the same time.

Quote me the part where Jesus says, "I am God". You can't, because at no stage does Jesus say that. Instead he says, as those quotes clearly show, that he worships God aka the Father.

He possessed all the tributes of divinity including omnipotence and omniscience.

He explicitly says he has no powers of his own, only those that the Father gives him.

\When Jesus became man, he discarded all his divinity to be recognized as man (Phil 2:5-8). Thats why he did not "know" the day and thats why he did say "No one is good but God alone". God literally became man.

Paul contradicts you. He says Jesus is Lord, and the Father is God. (He thinks Jesus is the demiurge and created the material universe and is the bridge between the material universe and the remote, perfect, immaterial God. The author of John is of a similar mind. That's why his Jesus says that before Abraham was, he, Jesus existed ─ in heaven with God. But the author of John is repeatedly and explicitly of the view that Jesus is NOT God.

Yes, Jesus did what his father wanted. Because Jesus is the flesh and his father is the soul. The body obeys the soul.

That has nothing to do with the Trinity doctrine, or with its absence from the NT.

So what?

So Jesus, although declared by the Trinity doctrine to be 100% of God, will have no power, on his return to heaven, to determine the seating arrangements for himself. God, the Father, is the only one who can do that.

So what?

So Paul spells it out for you ─ Jesus is Lord (you could equally say, the demiurge) and the Father is God. And as you saw in those quotes, Jesus worships the Father and acknowledges that the Father is his, Jesus', God. Just as a good circumcised Jewish man would.

you pick out biblical passages without looking at the entire context. This is wrong and dangerous.

You support the Trinity doctrine apparently with no comprehension that it didn't exist before the 4th century CE.

I also notice that you do not understand the Trinity, otherwise you would know that we Christians do not believe in three gods but only in one.

You apparently don't understand that the churches ─ not me ─ have told you that the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, using the words 'a mystery in the strict sense'. A 'mystery in the strict sense' is something that 'can neither be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed' ─ their words, not mine.

You'll have wondered, for example, why Matthew's Jesus would cry out on the cross, 'Me, me, why have I forsaken me?'. And since in Matthew and Luke God is the biological father of Jesus, and since in the Trinity doctrine each of the Father, Jesus and the Ghost is 100% of God, you'll wonder why the Father is called the Father when both Jesus and the Ghost have equally good claims on that title.

And so on.

(To be clear, I acknowledge you're entitled to believe what you like. I simply object to the claim that the NT supports the Trinity, when as a matter of simple fact, it doesn't, and couldn't, since nothing like the Trinity doctrine existed in the 1st century CE.)

 

[sooda]

There's only one God and he's not present in this scene, although Jesus is.
So Jesus, though according to Trinity doctrine 100% of God, has no idea what the Father has planned as the destiny of the universe. No, that makes no sense ─ Jesus, sent from heaven as God's envoy, has no more knowledge of what God has planned than the angels do.
Quote me the part where Jesus says, "I am God". You can't, because at no stage does Jesus say that. Instead he says, as those quotes clearly show, that he worships God aka the Father.
He explicitly says he has no powers of his own, only those that the Father gives him.
Paul contradicts you. He says Jesus is Lord, and the Father is God. (He thinks Jesus is the demiurge and created the material universe and is the bridge between the material universe and the remote, perfect, immaterial God. The author of John is of a similar mind. That's why his Jesus says that before Abraham was, he, Jesus existed ─ in heaven with God. But the author of John is repeatedly and explicitly of the view that Jesus is NOT God.
That has nothing to do with the Trinity doctrine, or with its absence from the NT.
So Jesus, although declared by the Trinity doctrine to be 100% of God, will have no power, on his return to heaven, to determine the seating arrangements for himself. God, the Father, is the only one who can do that.
So Paul spells it out for you ─ Jesus is Lord (you could equally say, the demiurge) and the Father is God. And as you saw in those quotes, Jesus worships the Father and acknowledges that the Father is his, Jesus', God. Just as a good circumcised Jewish man would.
You support the Trinity doctrine apparently with no comprehension that it didn't exist before the 4th century CE.
You apparently don't understand that the churches ─ not me ─ have told you that the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, using the words 'a mystery in the strict sense'. A 'mystery in the strict sense' is something that 'can neither be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed' ─ their words, not mine.

You'll have wondered, for example, why Matthew's Jesus would cry out on the cross, 'Me, me, why have I forsaken me?'. And since in Matthew and Luke God is the biological father of Jesus, and since in the Trinity doctrine each of the Father, Jesus and the Ghost is 100% of God, you'll wonder why the Father is called the Father when both Jesus and the Ghost have equally good claims on that title.

And so on.

(To be clear, I acknowledge you're entitled to believe what you like. I simply object to the claim that the NT supports the Trinity, when as a matter of simple fact, it doesn't, and couldn't, since nothing like the Trinity doctrine existed in the 1st century CE.)

Well done, but I think its a bit late in the game to teach critical thinking skills.

 

[calm]

LOLOL.. 144,000 just means a really big number.. Its symbolic. Don't mock religion. Nobody believes that nonsense.

That's not symbolic.
Revelation 14:3-5
3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

Revelation 7:4-8
And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

 

[oldbadger]

Jehovah’s Witnesses are told that those who seek higher education become arrogant and haughty, and think they know more than God. In addition to that, earning an advanced degree requires a lot of time and effort, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught that their time is best spent studying the Bible, attending their religious meetings, and proselytizing.
Why are Jehovah's Witnesses poor compared to other ...
www.quora.com/Why-are-Jehovahs-Witnesses-poor-compared-to-other-religious-groups

You did not answer my question
Which Bible is the correct one?

 

[sooda]

That's not symbolic.
Revelation 14:3-5
3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

Revelation 7:4-8
And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

I thought only JW believed that was literal.

144,000 is a symbolic number of Jewish Christians who escaped the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

They fled to Pella to escape the tribulation.

 

[Clear]

Bearing in mind that λόγος can be translated not only as 'word' but in a number of other ways, John 1:1 reads ─

Ἐν....ἀρχῇ......ἦν....ὁ...λόγος..καὶ...ὁ...λόγος..ἦν....πρὸς....τὸν.θεόν.καὶ.θεὸς.ἦν...ὁ...λόγος.
At beginning was the word and the word was towards THE god and god was the word.
​

As you can see, the first mention of god, τὸν θεόν [ton theon, the accusative case of ὁ θεὸς ho theos], is preceded by the definite article τὸν ─ the god, which is the standard Greek expression for 'God' in the NT.

And the second mention of god, θεὸς [theos], has no definite article. This is how old Greek conveys the sense of our indefinite article, and is correctly translated as 'a god'. (That is, were 'the god' intended, it would be ho theos.)

So there's nothing wrong, or even unusual, with the translation.

I like Blu's point (my keyboard doesn't know how to do umlauts, sorry) in post #70. I am not a Jehovahs witness but I suspect they must be tired of the inaccurate "cut and pasted" criticisms by individuals who do not, themselves, read or write greek. (Who knows how many times the claims against translating John 1:1c as "a God" have been debunked... )


1) IF ONE WANTS TO WRITE "AND THE WORD WAS A GOD", HOW DOES ONE WRITE IT?

Another simple demonstration that the translation is grammatically correct is to simply ask how one WOULD write the phrase "And the word was A God." in Koine. The way I would write it is "Και θεοσ ην ο λογοσ." I am the author. I intend the phrase to mean "And the word was A God." And the phrase as I wrote it, is perfectly correct grammatically.

AND, it is the exact same words in the exact same word order as John 1:1c.

Do ANY of the critics of the J.W. have ANY problem with how I wrote my sentence which means "And the Word was A God." ?

IF, there are NO errors in my koine greek sentence, AND my sentence is the SAME as the third phrase of John 1:1c, then to translate John 1:1c as "and the Word was A God." is perfectly correct grammatically.

The true meaning of the actual phrase is NOT going to be determined by grammatical rules (since the phrase follows grammatical rules to be translated as "a God"). What will determine the correct meaning will instead, be the context of the author that will determine what the sentence meant to the author. The meaning for the author may be debatable, but the grammar itself is fine.

Clear
σιακειω

 

[calm]

There's only one God and he's not present in this scene, although Jesus is.
So Jesus, though according to Trinity doctrine 100% of God, has no idea what the Father has planned as the destiny of the universe. No, that makes no sense ─ Jesus, sent from heaven as God's envoy, has no more knowledge of what God has planned than the angels do.
Quote me the part where Jesus says, "I am God". You can't, because at no stage does Jesus say that. Instead he says, as those quotes clearly show, that he worships God aka the Father.
He explicitly says he has no powers of his own, only those that the Father gives him.
Paul contradicts you. He says Jesus is Lord, and the Father is God. (He thinks Jesus is the demiurge and created the material universe and is the bridge between the material universe and the remote, perfect, immaterial God. The author of John is of a similar mind. That's why his Jesus says that before Abraham was, he, Jesus existed ─ in heaven with God. But the author of John is repeatedly and explicitly of the view that Jesus is NOT God.
That has nothing to do with the Trinity doctrine, or with its absence from the NT.
So Jesus, although declared by the Trinity doctrine to be 100% of God, will have no power, on his return to heaven, to determine the seating arrangements for himself. God, the Father, is the only one who can do that.
So Paul spells it out for you ─ Jesus is Lord (you could equally say, the demiurge) and the Father is God. And as you saw in those quotes, Jesus worships the Father and acknowledges that the Father is his, Jesus', God. Just as a good circumcised Jewish man would.
You support the Trinity doctrine apparently with no comprehension that it didn't exist before the 4th century CE.
You apparently don't understand that the churches ─ not me ─ have told you that the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, using the words 'a mystery in the strict sense'. A 'mystery in the strict sense' is something that 'can neither be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed' ─ their words, not mine.

You'll have wondered, for example, why Matthew's Jesus would cry out on the cross, 'Me, me, why have I forsaken me?'. And since in Matthew and Luke God is the biological father of Jesus, and since in the Trinity doctrine each of the Father, Jesus and the Ghost is 100% of God, you'll wonder why the Father is called the Father when both Jesus and the Ghost have equally good claims on that title.

And so on.

(To be clear, I acknowledge you're entitled to believe what you like. I simply object to the claim that the NT supports the Trinity, when as a matter of simple fact, it doesn't, and couldn't, since nothing like the Trinity doctrine existed in the 1st century CE.)

I'm sorry, but there's no point disuss with you. You pick out some biblical passages without looking at the whole context and that is wrong.
And to claim that Jesus never said he was God is also wrong. See Revelation 1:8, and no, it is not the Father who speaks, please read the whole context. It is clear that it is Jesus who speaks.

 

[calm]

I thought only JW believed that was literal.

144,000 is a symbolic number of Jewish Christians who escaped the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

They fled to Pella to escape the tribulation.

no comment.

 

[sooda]

no comment.

When you learn more about the first century Palestine you'll understand their symbols a little better.

 

[blü 2]

(my keyboard doesn't know how to do umlauts, sorry) in post #70.

If you're using Windows, ü is alt+129 (on the keypad, not the top row).

 

[calm]

When you learn more about the first century Palestine you'll understand their symbols a little better.

you connect things that have nothing to do with each other.