Why do Jehovah's Witnesses change the meaning of John 10:17-18?From the kings james one?

[Frank Goad]

In my opinion its a fraud!

They changed the meaning because Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus returned from the death of his mortal temple on his own volition.

* JW believe that Jesus was thoroughly dead and was at the mercy of the Father to "raise him up".

* Jesus said he could John 10:18 and would John 2:19 return on his own volition thus proving his authority and frankly his identity John 14:9.

The Jehovah Witnesses literally changed the Biblical translation to fit their unbelief that Jesus returned from apparent death on his own.

JW fraud: This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again.

KJV: The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

This is a clear example of the anti-preexistent divinity crowd in action! The JW's decided to just blatantly change the words to fit what they belive rather than continue with the twisted apologetics!

We don't.
Our bible uses a simpler vocabulary so people can understand the verses better. We don't change the meaning.
Please don't confuse your inability to understand with someone else's actions.

You are going to need to quote it from both texts, and then explain why you think they say something different. I looked up both translations, and they certainly appear to say the same thing (just different wording).

I am with cOLTER.

 

[Kenny]

No. Thats wrong Ken. It says "Ho", not "Mou". It should be "the".



It's more like "Put". So surrender or lay down is a matter of interpretation really.

I looked it up... you are correct - The Father loves me.

as far as the second... I let the Bible interpret itself:

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

He has the authority.

 

[Kenny]

It's important to note that the KJV is not the original Bible, so JWs cannot change its meaning.
The NWT is translated from the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and not from the KJV, or any other translation.

The question is always "is it correctly translated". Do you know who was in the group that translated your version?

 

[Kenny]

That's simple and clear Frank. Those who disagree are only teaching falsehoods. Not truth.
Listening to them, and then challenging Jehovah's people, imo, is comparable to spending one's time doing this...

Certainly would disagree here.

 

[Kenny]

You didn't answer my question Frank. You do think a lot of things, and you do remember what you admitted about your thinking, right?

My question was...
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:24; Acts of the Apostles 2:32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 13:34; Romans 4:24; 1 Corinthians 6:14; Colossians 2:12; Hebrews 13:20, did God raise up Jesus from the dead, or did Jesus raise himself up from the dead?

Also, I hope you realized, that the Greek word John used at Chapter 10, verse 17 is lambanó: - meaning to take or receive.
So that clearly shows your OP is wrong, as JWs did not change anything, but simply used the meaning that is in harmony with the context... namely, that Jesus received his life from the father.
He gave up his life. He received it again... from his father.

Also, it's important to note that you have just added your thinking to the text, making it wrong.
The scriptures do not say "raised up his body".
No, that is a belief of immortal soul believers who do not understand the scriptures, and seem to not want to.

The scriptures clearly says this...
(1 Corinthians 15:35-38) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.

I like Paul's words.
The KJV puts it this way...
1 Corinthians 15:35-38
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Which one do you like better Frank?
Let's use the one you like better. Did you notice...
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
thou sowest not that body that shall be
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body

So, what goes into the earth is what dies, and is not what is made alive, or what will be, but God gives the person life, and a new body, of which there are two kinds - spirit, or flesh. (1 Corinthians 15:39-40)
The other scriptures all agree. Psalms 104:29-30

That's simple and clear Frank. Those who disagree are only teaching falsehoods. Not truth.
Listening to them, and then challenging Jehovah's people, imo, is comparable to spending one's time doing this...

Combo...
Revelation 1:18 NIV
Revelation 1:18 - I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I a...
18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

You open the door because you have the keys.

You can add a third combination...

Romans 8:11 The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. If the same Holy Spirit lives in you, He will give life to your bodies in the same way.

oops... we have the Holy Spirit there too... wait a minute, was it the Father? or was it the Holy Spirit or was it that Jesus had the authority to raise himself up

@Frank Goad

 

[Brian2]

We don't.
Our bible uses a simpler vocabulary so people can understand the verses better. We don't change the meaning.
Please don't confuse your inability to understand with someone else's actions.

It is not you who translated the New World Translation so you cannot be praised or condemned. However you should know that the translators have change the meaning in many places in the NWT to suite their doctrines.

 

[YoursTrue]

I looked it up... you are correct - The Father loves me.

as far as the second... I let the Bible interpret itself:

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

He has the authority.

He lays down his life of his own accord, right?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Because to believe that to be the case, would be to take a closed minded and biased approach without really looking at the facts, and the facts show different.

Are you saying that their version does not conform to the JW teaching and beliefs?
That would be strange indeed.

 

[Kenny]

He lays down his life of his own accord, right?

That is correct. He could have called angels and stopped it. Since, as to our faith, he never sinned, death had no power to take his life.

 

[firedragon]

I looked it up... you are correct - The Father loves me.

as far as the second... I let the Bible interpret itself:

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

He has the authority.

What do you mean "let the bible interpret itself"? Just out of curiosity could you explain what you mean by that?

BTW, I didn't make any commentary on "authority". If you read what I said you would see that easily.

I will wait to hear from you about the "Bible interpreting itself" and what you mean by that. Thanks.

 

[Kenny]

What do you mean "let the bible interpret itself"? Just out of curiosity could you explain what you mean by that?

BTW, I didn't make any commentary on "authority". If you read what I said you would see that easily.

I will wait to hear from you about the "Bible interpreting itself" and what you mean by that. Thanks.

It is a basic understanding that if it explains something, we don't have to try to figure it out. If, for an example, Jesus said, “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” and not many days later and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, we don't have to try to "interpret" it... it interpreted itself--it told us what he meant.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is a basic understanding that if it explains something, we don't have to try to figure it out.

Except that is just not always true.

 

[Kenny]

Except that is just not always true.

It is true if it explains it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is true if it explains it.

Most of the Tanakh doesn't fall into that group.

 

[Kenny]

Most of the Tanakh doesn't fall into that group.

I'm just saying that when it does, we can't put our spin on it. If it doesn't it will take a deeper look.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is correct. He could have called angels and stopped it. Since, as to our faith, he never sinned, death had no power to take his life.

He did, however, lay down his life. I was thinking about that today, and while the scripture goes on to state certain things after that, it starts out by saying that Jesus laid down his life. Because it moves into interpretation and question among some, first let me mention that (1) Jesus laid down his life. Yes, he could have called angels to stop it but we know he did not. And (2) before we go any further, let's look at 1 John 3:16, which says, "We know what real love is because Jesus gave up his life for us. So we also ought to give up our lives for our brothers and sisters." That is the New International Version. The English Standard Version says something similar when it says, "By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers."
So it is clear that Jesus willingly gave up his life.

 

[74x12]

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses change the meaning of John 10:17-18?From the king james one?I think the king james one is right.And the Jehovah's Witness one is wrong.

In my opinion; they don't want it to say that Jesus has power to come back to life. So they make it say surrender instead of the more literal translation which is lay down my life.

 

[Brian2]

Ah. I now get it. Sorry. I zeroed in on verse 18, but I think you are focused on verse 17. Am I right?

A. that I might take it again.
B. that I may receive it again.

Got yah, now. Thank you.

Take a look here, and tell me which translation is wrong, if any.
Then please please please answer this question.
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:24; Acts of the Apostles 2:32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 13:34; Romans 4:24; 1 Corinthians 6:14; Colossians 2:12; Hebrews 13:20, did God raise up Jesus from the dead, or did Jesus raise himself up from the dead?

A more important question for a JW is "why did Jesus get His life back" when He gave it for a ransom, but JWs say that is a reason that He did not get His body back.
Just a thought.

 

[Kenny]

He did, however, lay down his life. I was thinking about that today, and while the scripture goes on to state certain things after that, it starts out by saying that Jesus laid down his life. Because it moves into interpretation and question among some, first let me mention that (1) Jesus laid down his life. Yes, he could have called angels to stop it but we know he did not. And (2) before we go any further, let's look at 1 John 3:16, which says, "We know what real love is because Jesus gave up his life for us. So we also ought to give up our lives for our brothers and sisters." That is the New International Version. The English Standard Version says something similar when it says, "By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers."
So it is clear that Jesus willingly gave up his life.

Very well said!!!!

 

[firedragon]

It is a basic understanding that if it explains something, we don't have to try to figure it out. If, for an example, Jesus said, “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” and not many days later and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, we don't have to try to "interpret" it... it interpreted itself--it told us what he meant.

Ah. You mean the verse explains itself.

You cant say the Bible interprets itself. You are talking about a verse being self explanatory.

Two whole different things. But thanks for clarifying.