Why do God/s "hide" from disbelievers?

[Bird123]

Why does it seems like God or Gods hide from disbelievers but atleast in some way are recognised by or shown to believers?

Any thoughts?

God hides nothing. It is the observer who decides and defines what is seen.

So often people choose to see what they want to see in disregard to what actually exists.

Worry not. One might choose to wander from reality and truth, however since there is no time limit to learning, one will end up on the right path again.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

God hides nothing. It is the observer who decides and defines what is seen.

Indeed, H sap sap has evolved to perceive the external world in particular ways, with names, categories, abstractions from those, and so on.

But there are no authenticated sightings of God in that world. God appears to exist only as a concept / thing imagined in individual brains, no?

So often people choose to see what they want to see in disregard to what actually exists.

But if it has objective existence, then the camera, video or other suitable detector / recorder, will have something to tell us about what's out there. Have you any videos of God to show us?

Worry not. One might choose to wander from reality and truth, however since there is no time limit to learning, one will end up on the right path again.

This question of the definition of "truth" keeps coming up. I favor the correspondence view ─ truth is a quality of statements, and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / accurately reflects objective reality. Is that what you mean by "truth" above? If so, what is the statement, exactly?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As is God.

How so?

Behaviors of believers and change their belief affects in them.

To assume that the effects of god-belief are the effects of God would take a few logical leaps.

 

[Clara Tea]

Why does it seems like God or Gods hide from disbelievers but atleast in some way are recognised by or shown to believers?

Any thoughts?

God requires free will. If God is apparent to all, free will to disbelieve is gone.

Free will separates the good (going to heaven) from the bad (going to hell).

God puts a spirit in each human, that guides the human. Bad spirits go to hell, and good spirits rejoin God in heaven. I think that God is made of billions of such spirits, and some are bad. This is God's way of purifying himself.

It is Satan's role to keep bad spirits in prison in hell. Thus, Satan is allowed to exist.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is God's way of purifying himself.

This sparked my attention. What do you mean by this?

 

[viole]

I do not believe God hides, i just believe non believers cant see Gods signs in this world

So, Apollo was not hiding in Ancient Greece?

Ciao

- viole

 

[SalixIncendium]

How so?

Through interaction with those that have had a God experience, through having such and experience oneself, and observation of the effects of such an experience.

To assume that the effects of god-belief are the effects of God would take a few logical leaps.

Then I suppose some of us are more proficient at logical leaping than others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So, Apollo was not hiding in Ancient Greece?

Ciao

- viole

My knowledge about Apollo is limited, so i cant answer in a good way.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why does it seems like God or Gods hide from disbelievers but atleast in some way are recognised by or shown to believers?

Any thoughts?

You could ask the exact same question about yourself for every god you do not believe in. Which is like, literally, all of them except 1.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You could ask the exact same question about yourself for every god you do not believe in. Which is like, literally, all of them except 1.

Do i not believe other Gods then Allah exist?

Or do i see it as a Sufi i should only follow one teaching? Meaning I only follow Allah, but can i truly say other Gods does not exist or are real? I can not say other Gods does not exist or are real.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Do i not believe other Gods then Allah exist?

Or do i see it as a Sufi i should only follow one teaching? Meaning I only follow Allah, but can i truly say other Gods does not exist or are real? I can not say other Gods does not exist or are real.

So you believe Visjnoe, Quetzalcoatl, lord jesus (not human prophet Isa / jesus), Krishna, Apollo, Jupiter, Thor, Shiva, Odin, etc etc etc, are all real?
You "saw" them? They aren't "hiding" from you?

You give new meaning to the term "monotheism", especially in context of Islam.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you believe Visjnoe, Quetzalcoatl, lord jesus (not human prophet Isa / jesus), Krishna, Apollo, Jupiter, Thor, Shiva, Odin, etc etc etc, are all real?
You "saw" them? They aren't "hiding" from you?

You give new meaning to the term "monotheism", especially in context of Islam.

I have no evidence they do not exist, so can i say for sure they are not real or have existed on earth to give teachings? No i can not.

I follow OSMANLI NAKSIBENDI HAKKANI SUFI WAY, meaning the way i see Islam and Quran is through my teacher and in discussion with him i gain my own understanding.

I know the way i understand Islam is different than you, that is no problem for me.
Sufi teaching dont tell others that their God or their belief in other religions is wrong. I let people believe what they want without looking down on them just because they believe different then i do

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Through interaction with those that have had a God experience, through having such and experience oneself, and observation of the effects of such an experience.

"Those that have had a God experience"? What's that supposed to refer to?


Are you talking about people who have had "mystical" experiences?

Then I suppose some of us are more proficient at logical leaping than others.

It's not something to be proud of.

 

[SalixIncendium]

"Those that have had a God experience"? What's that supposed to refer to?


Are you talking about people who have had "mystical" experiences?

Yes.

It's not something to be proud of.

Your judgmental opinion is duly noted.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have no evidence they do not exist

You also don't have evidence that leprechauns, bigfoot and aliens that abduct humans to perform weird sex experiments on them don't exist.

This, off course, is a reversal of the burden of proof. Evidence is required for the claim that they DO exist.

As an atheist, I have no evidence that ANY god does "not" exist. Nore do I require such to not believe based on there not being any evidence in support of the positive claim.

, so can i say for sure they are not real or have existed on earth to give teachings? No i can not.

The question is not if you believe they are NOT real.
The question is if you believe they ARE real.

I know the way i understand Islam is different than you, that is no problem for me.
Sufi teaching dont tell others that their God or their belief in other religions is wrong. I let people believe what they want without looking down on them just because they believe different then i do

All this is besides the point.

Again, the question is not if you believe those other gods do NOT exist.
The question is if you believe they DO exist.

I'm going ahead and assume that you don't believe that all the gods I listed, and many others, ARE real.

So we come back to my original point...
Which is that you can take the question of the OP, turn it around and ask yourself why all those gods are hiding from YOU.

 

[Wrangler]

Why does it seems like God or Gods hide from disbelievers but atleast in some way are recognised by or shown to believers?

Any thoughts?

I think it is because he expects us to take the first step toward him in faith. It is brilliant, really.

By people thinking the roles are reversed, that the Creator of the universe is required to reveal himself to you, unbelievers set themselves up as god’s.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You also don't have evidence that leprechauns, bigfoot and aliens that abduct humans to perform weird sex experiments on them don't exist.

This, off course, is a reversal of the burden of proof. Evidence is required for the claim that they DO exist.

As an atheist, I have no evidence that ANY god does "not" exist. Nore do I require such to not believe based on there not being any evidence in support of the positive claim.



The question is not if you believe they are NOT real.
The question is if you believe they ARE real.



All this is besides the point.

Again, the question is not if you believe those other gods do NOT exist.
The question is if you believe they DO exist.

I'm going ahead and assume that you don't believe that all the gods I listed, and many others, ARE real.

So we come back to my original point...
Which is that you can take the question of the OP, turn it around and ask yourself why all those gods are hiding from YOU.

@TagliatelliMonster you can believe what you want about how i practice my belief, it does not affect me how you see me. You can twist my words as you wish, it still going to be your own opinion of what I should do, who I should be or what i should believe. Still your thoughts about me.
That is why it is mostly impossible to discuss with you. because it seems like you put your own understanding upon what i believe and you dont listen to what is actually said.

No hard feelings. I just disagree with your way of "believing"

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

@TagliatelliMonster you can believe what you want about how i practice my belief, it does not affect me how you see me. You can twist my words as you wish, it still going to be your own opinion of what I should do, who I should be or what i should believe. Still your thoughts about me.
That is why it is mostly impossible to discuss with you. because it seems like you put your own understanding upon what i believe and you dont listen to what is actually said.

No hard feelings. I just disagree with your way of "believing"

It seems to me you completely miscomprehend the point I'm making.

Your OP puts ALL gods in the exact same basket. You ignore the reality that you are pretty much an atheist, just like me, concerning all gods you do NOT actively believe in.

Your OP question assumes that a voodoo believer, a scientologist, a mormon, a wiccan, a hindu,... is in the same boat as a muslim.

As if all those beliefs are equal.


They are not. They are diametrically opposed to one another.

You do not believe in Thor, Odin and Whalhalla in the exact same way that I don't believe in Allah and the islamic version of paradise.

So your OP question, as far as it concerns Thor and Odin, applies to you just as much as your question, as far as it concerns Allah, applies to me.


That is my only point.

I'm not critizing your beliefs. Not in this thread anyway
I'm instead rather pointing out a flaw in the reasoning that underpins your OP.

If you would have restricted your OP question to just the one God you believe in, I wouldn't have felt a need to make this point.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It seems to me you completely miscomprehend the point I'm making.

Your OP puts ALL gods in the exact same basket. You ignore the reality that you are pretty much an atheist, just like me, concerning all gods you do NOT actively believe in.

Your OP question assumes that a voodoo believer, a scientologist, a mormon, a wiccan, a hindu,... is in the same boat as a muslim.

As if all those beliefs are equal.


They are not. They are diametrically opposed to one another.

You do not believe in Thor, Odin and Whalhalla in the exact same way that I don't believe in Allah and the islamic version of paradise.

So your OP question, as far as it concerns Thor and Odin, applies to you just as much as your question, as far as it concerns Allah, applies to me.


That is my only point.

I'm not critizing your beliefs. Not in this thread anyway
I'm instead rather pointing out a flaw in the reasoning that underpins your OP.

You are good in pointing out flaws in other people my friend maybe time to look within?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are good in pointing out flaws in other people my friend maybe time to look within?

I'm all ears.