1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why do God/s "hide" from disbelievers?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Conscious thoughts, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    13,389
    Ratings:
    +8,461
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    Why does it seems like God or Gods hide from disbelievers but atleast in some way are recognised by or shown to believers?

    Any thoughts?
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2019
    Messages:
    2,518
    Ratings:
    +2,317
    Religion:
    Atheist/non-religious
    Because God doesn't exist like you, me, a dog or particule, but more like a dream or caracter of fiction. He exist only in your mind and in the mind of those who believe in him. Note that even amongst believers, God is always a bit different.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,178
    Ratings:
    +14,249
    Religion:
    Judaism
    I think you are making an outlandish claim.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,951
    Ratings:
    +3,859
    Religion:
    Druidry
    They don't hide IMO, disbelievers are just looking in the wrong direction. Both inward and outward, simultaneously.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    13,389
    Ratings:
    +8,461
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    That was not with intention.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,178
    Ratings:
    +14,249
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You write, in part, ...
    ... and yet offer no evidence of that being true. Meanwhile, you seem to be unprepared to choose between "God or Gods".
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,108
    Ratings:
    +4,963
    Religion:
    Gnostic Atheism
    You mean the great Juju at the bottom of the sea, God, Allah, Zeus, Thor, Apollo.... or which one?

    For instance, why do you think that Apollo was hiding from disbelievers, but not to believers in Him, in your opinion?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    32,073
    Ratings:
    +16,482
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    What an anthropomorphic God, playing hide and seek, like five year old children on a rainy day. Just who is this fellow, anyway?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    21,331
    Ratings:
    +15,548
    Religion:
    Druidry
    It's not that the gods hide. It's that those who reject a particular model of theism do not:
    • Have an ontological framework that permits such gods to be defined as "existing" in their view
    • Have a background (culture and personality) that permits them to accept a particular understanding of gods
    Just as a reminder, for most of human history, the gods were understood as various natural and social forces that comprise reality itself. These do not "hide" from anyone. These gods are literally the air you breathe, the love that stirs in your heart, and the creativity that inspires invention. Whatever it is that is deemed sacred or worthy of worship? Those are a people's gods. They don't hide unless one does not to look and study theology and religion (e.g., they "hide" from the blind and ignorant).
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,301
    Ratings:
    +7,813
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    God is not hiding from you?
    What does God look like?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    31,232
    Ratings:
    +10,455
    Religion:
    Process of Spiritual Healing
    The word god is an ambiguous word. When a believer asks "why don't you believe in god?" They're referring to their specific god. It's an unhelpful question given "I don't believe in god" signals to, for example, a christian they don't believe in "his or her" god.

    A productive question (I'm not saying your question isn't productive) to ask is "what is your experience of awe?" or What experience changed your life drastically that you never been the same since... what do you do or value that makes you feel whole?

    Aka. The question (not you and any particular believer) is biased.

    -
    Also, because believers (any believer) have preset definitions of god, many atheists only go by that preset definition given to them not their own (if they have one as being an atheist many don't). So, instead of rejecting gods in general (pagan, eastern, mythological, abrahamic, etc), they just reject the "abrahamic" god-Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Bahai, and otherwise.

    If the believer (any believer) has no intentions of learning about atheists views without interpreting it through his or her religious biases (which is hard, takes a lot of openness and patience), it's hard for the atheist to be reciprocal, and be interested in the views of believers.

    You (not accusing you of being wrong or anything) have to be mindful that there are different definitions of gods that are not all creators and don't have similarities to abrahamic definitions. The experiences are different than abrahamics.

    Therefore, it's not that god (abrahamic) hides from atheists. It's just that believers have predefinitions of god, and by definition atheists do not.
     
    #11 Unveiled Artist, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    47,752
    Ratings:
    +4,583
    if you are not interested in God......

    why should He bother you?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    11,639
    Ratings:
    +2,355
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Do you believe you've experienced miracles in your life?
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    18,836
    Ratings:
    +9,599
    Religion:
    None
    Same reason that Bigfoot, nessie and
    the mermaid hide from you, me,
    and the man behind the tree; though
    some do nevertheless report sightings.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    18,836
    Ratings:
    +9,599
    Religion:
    None
    It is not a lack, shortcoming, or inability
    on my part that results in undetecttable beings playing no part in my life.

    If someone's background somehow
    "Permits" them to see flying saucer and cavorting with mermaids, so much the worse for them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,297
    Ratings:
    +18,205
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    There are a few things that are wrong with your premise, in my opinion.

    First, if God or gods are shown to believers, then why would there be a reason to believe?

    Second, would you feel a need to hide from someone who didn't believe you existed?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    47,752
    Ratings:
    +4,583
    and of course....there is the Prime Directive
     
    #17 Thief, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    • Funny Funny x 2
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    18,836
    Ratings:
    +9,599
    Religion:
    None
    And that how things " seem" to someone-
    is not evidence of anything except about how
    they feel.
     
  19. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    21,331
    Ratings:
    +15,548
    Religion:
    Druidry
    The gods aren't "undetectable beings", though... not most of them, anyway. We've all got shortcomings and inabilities - that can include the inability to classify gods as "real" and the inability to understand that gods are not necessarily "undetectable beings" for example. We've all got boxes we think inside that limit how we perceive the world. There's no shame in it; it's an inevitable human condition. The thesis I'm trying to get across is: it's not that the gods "hide" but that our assumptions about the world blind us to certain things.
     
  20. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    55,524
    Ratings:
    +25,029
    Religion:
    Love
    To me the spiritual path is hide & seek. He hides in our hearts and we seek Him there. When we 'find' Him, we become Him.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Loading...