Why do Christians worship Mary?

[rocka21]

Quick answer
We believe in life everlasting, and profess a "communion of saints"
Eph 2: 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Intercessary prayer is worthy of God's praise 1 Tim 2: 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

for the Saints offer our prayers to God as incense
Rev 5:8 and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

your second scripture
1st tim. 2:1

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

who said here that saints that are dead make intercessions? where do you see this here? NO, paul or people , make prayers, intercession, so on and so on for all men. That means me and you while we are alive.

Might i also point out verse 5! THAT SHOULD CLOSE THE BOOK ON IF MARY IS A GO TO PERSON FOR ANYONE!

All together class......... who is the ONE mediator between God and man?
Mohammed? Mary? ST. padre pio? Budda? Joseph Smith? any one? any one?

JESUS!!!!

now on to your revelation quote.



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[rocka21]

As a Christian, you probably believe that when someone died, his spirit is received into Heaven where it continues to live. Catholics don't pray to dead bodies; they pray to those in Heaven who live because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. You know that as well as I do.

please show me some scripture basis for this?

 

[rocka21]

Quick answer
We believe in life everlasting, and profess a "communion of saints"
Eph 2: 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Intercessary prayer is worthy of God's praise 1 Tim 2: 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

for the Saints offer our prayers to God as incense
Rev 5:8 and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.


Is very clear that John is speaking of Heaven. Please tell me how you get " golden vials of odours" to mean , we on earth light incense to saints?

Golden vials full of odours ARE prayers OF OF OF OF OF OF saints not TO TO TO TO TO saints.

again, saints are you and me , here on earth.

any more scriptures to justify praying to mary or saints?
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[Katzpur]

All together class......... who is the ONE mediator between God in man?


JESUS!!!!

We're talking about Mary here, in case that slipped your mind. Please try to stay on topic, for crying out loud. It shouldn't be all that difficult.

 

[Katzpur]

please show me some scripture basis for this?

Some scriptural basis for the fact that our spirits go to heaven after they die? You don't believe that?

 

[chlotilde]

The saints are of the household of God, or the body of Christ. That means all people that belong to the body are Saints,

Exactly, you got it! Everyone in the Body is a Saint

Not just the ones the catholic church picks out.

Not sure what you mean by that? That we have some special ones like the Apostle's, Mary etal...

how can you get that you pray to saints from this passage?

We pray for eachother because of what Tim said in my other quote.

 

[rocka21]

As a Christian, you probably believe that when someone died, his spirit is received into Heaven where it continues to live. Catholics don't pray to dead bodies; they pray to those in Heaven who live because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. You know that as well as I do.

let me be more clear for you.

show me scripture that supports praying to people in Heaven.

 

[rocka21]

Exactly, you got it! Everyone in the Body is a SaintNot sure what you mean by that? That we have some special ones like the Apostle's, Mary etal...

We pray for eachother because of what Tim said in my other quote.

of course we pray for each other. you pray for me, i pray for you.

we are talking about praying to people, dead or alive, not praying for people.

 

[Katzpur]

let me be more clear for you.

show me scripture that supports praying to people in Heaven.

There aren't any, and I never suggested that this is something we should be doing. I don't do it myself. But there is a difference between not agreeing with someone's beliefs (which is what I'm doing) and misrepresenting them (which is what you're doing). I was merely pointing out that when Catholics pray to the Saints, they are not praying to dead bodies, which you strongly implied by your reference to necromancy.

 

[MaddLlama]

of course we pray for each other. you pray for me, i pray for you.

we are talking about praying to people, dead or alive, not praying for people.

I am not understanding why this is so hard for you to comprehend...Catholics are not praying to dead people, they are asking Saints (dead people) to pray for them. For Catholics this is no different from asking a relative or friend to pray for them.

You may not agree that it's right or even possible, but if you know your history, Protestants and Catholics don't believe the same things. And, if you want to start a "Catholics are wrong" thread, be my guest.

 

[MaddLlama]

let me be more clear for you.

show me scripture that supports praying to people in Heaven.

The compilation of books that Christians call the Bible is a man made set of books. There is more scripture, and for that matter Catholic doctrine and scripture has more too it than what the Protestants use.

 

[rocka21]

There aren't any, and I never suggested that this is something we should be doing. I don't do it myself. But there is a difference between not agreeing with someone's beliefs (which is what I'm doing) and misrepresenting them (which is what you're doing). I was merely pointing out that when Catholics pray to the Saints, they are not praying to dead bodies, which you strongly implied by your reference to necromancy.

I stand corrected.

thank you.


i should have used the word
Idolatry
image-worship or divine honour paid to any created object. Paul describes the origin of idolatry in Rom. 1:21-25: men forsook God, and sank into ignorance and moral corruption (1:28). The forms of idolatry are, (1.) Fetishism, or the worship of trees, rivers, hills, stones, etc.

(2.) Hero worship, the worship of deceased ancestors, or of heroes.


in my Personal opinion, when you are kneeling at the stature of Mary or ST. Michael lighting candles, it fits with the definition above.

 

[MaddLlama]

It was my understanding that something is only Idolatry if a person is honoring it above God. As far as I know, the Catholic church considers god to be more important than the saints.

 

[dan]

I am not understanding why this is so hard for you to comprehend...Catholics are not praying to dead people, they are asking Saints (dead people) to pray for them. For Catholics this is no different from asking a relative or friend to pray for them.

Is the action of asking them to pray for you with head bowed and eyes closed and hands clasped?

It was my understanding that something is only Idolatry if a person is honoring it above God.

Christ said he is the only way to the Father. When you pray rather to another person than to God in the name of Christ you put that person before Christ, in my opinion. Idolatry, by the way, is not putting something before God, but venerating anything other than God in any way.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Still sounds a bit of a stretch praying to a saint & have them praying to God for you.
Could it be because you don't feel good enough & you don't think your worthly enough to pray directly to God?

 

[rocka21]

Do Catholics pray TO saints?
We pray with saints, not to them.
Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you when you were having a hard time? Why did you choose to ask that person?
You may have chosen someone you could trust, or someone who understood your problem, or someone who was close to God. Those are all reasons we ask saints to pray for us in times of trouble.
Since saints led holy lives and are close to God in heaven, we feel that their prayers are particularly effective. Often we ask particular saints to pray for us if we feel they have a particular interest in our problem. For example, many people ask Saint Monica to pray for them if they have trouble with unanswered prayers, because Monica prayed for twenty years for her son to be converted. Finally her prayers were answered in a way she never dreamed of -- her son, Augustine, became a canonized saint and a Doctor of the Church.



I stand corrected AGAIN! LOL.

i still don't see ANYWHERE in the scriptures that we should be doing this, but hey, what do i know?

we can get into, are you praying, TO, THROUGH, WITH, FOR, ( my head is spinning!)

when you are saying a pray TO a saint or TO mary , you asking them to pray for you, i get it.

BUT- you are still on your knees, hands together, looking up to heaven , praying TO someone other than God. ( again , just my opinion).

now , can we all hold hands and sing kumbiya?

 

[Kcnorwood]

It's not like your asking another christian to pray for you, your praying to another detity.

 

[chlotilde]

let me be more clear for you.

show me scripture that supports praying to people in Heaven.

Show me scripture that says I'm not supposed to ask those "in the Body of Christ" to pray for me...I specifically see passages to tell me to do so.

we are talking about praying to people, dead or alive, not praying for people.

This is a semantical issue more than anything else (hence your necessity to highlight the words to and for). Catholics still use the archaic use of the word "pray" which means an earnest plead (it is still in the dictionary). Other people do too, though less frequently, such as in the expression...Pray tell, what do you mean by that Batman? It is also still used in various and sundry legal documents (can't think of an example at the moment) as it is synonymous to orate (or at least it used to be)

So what a Catholic says is...I pray to you to pray for me...as in this is my plead to you to pray for me.

Protestants usually reserve the use of that word as meaning a plead only for God. We Catholics can't control the evolution of language. We've even talked about changing the way we say it, but it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks

Prithee Well (another archaic use of pray)

 

[MaddLlama]

It's not like your asking another christian to pray for you, your praying to another detity.

Have you been paying attention at all? Or do you keep jumping into the thread just to be argumentative?

By the way, did you read my post to you several pages back about Mary not being a goddess?

 

[MaddLlama]

You know, this is silly....

First of all, an atheists opinion is just that, and opinion. And, the particular one who started the discussion has already made up his mind anyway. There comes a point where you need to just walk away.
Second of all, this thread is turning into a "Catholic vs Protestant" docrtine argument....while that's fine too, after a certain point you also need to cut your losses and realize that this is the same damn fight you've been fighting since 1517...I hardly think the lot of us here are going to be able to resolve it.

So, that being said, I am taking my wooly butt to greener pastures. =)