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Featured Why do Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Then that is problematic all around.
     
  2. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    What truth?
     
  3. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    That can be said about Judaism which holds both Christianity and Islam heretical although they both have a relationship with Judaism. That doesn't make you more right and them wrong but only in your mind.

    No, because for one, all three have the same prophets with the exception of Muhammad in Judaism and Christianity.

    Ok this I get. So basically, in your view Judaism and Islam is wrong because they do not simply accept Jesus as their lord and savior correct? For that according to Christian eschatology their denial of Jesus' divinity will doom them to hell?

    Correct.

    If you were in a position of power, how would you promote this?

    I don't know why people are bringing this up considering I never mentioned Zionism in the beginning.

    That is an interesting position considering you'd be at odds and potentially in a shouting match with evangelical Christians.
     
  4. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    I think it's about the history of Christian nations warring against Muslims nations in the past. There was such a huge dynamic power struggle centuries ago that the bigotry has bleed through the years that both sides are distrustful towards each other. So when they see a conflict between Jews and Muslims. They naturally side on the jews side because of the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing. But I really haven't done the research to back this up or anything like that.
     
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  5. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I see your position. Like many others here who went off and made it about terrorism and attacks apparently it seems it is more about geopolitical differences and military excursions.
     
  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I'm surprised nobody addressed the video

     
  7. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    You're still mistaking the conflict for a theological problem, when it isn't.

    Both Christianity and Islam are fundamentally imperial ideologies. Other world religions are not. That's why Islam and Christianity are so much more in conflict than either is with Hinduism or Buddhism or whatever.
    Tom
     
  8. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    Yeah thats exactly my point. I remember taking I think Western Civilization and Easter Civilization in high school the teachers saying that the holy wars they fought was more about trade routes and resources then religious ones.
     
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  9. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    this one, from popeadope:

    The bottom line is, Christians are severely persecuted in Muslim countries. It is rare (if ever) to hear about Jews instituting harsh policies against non-jews or robbing people of free speech, for religious reasons.

    I've never heard of Jews persecuting Christians in Israel. At least, there's no beheading going on, or jail terms, or whatever.

    Since this is a matter of fact, not opinion, the religious opinions of the person stating them has no bearing on whether the facts are what they are.

    At least, that's been my experience.

    On the other hand, what do I know? I've only been around for seven decades.
     
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  10. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    And then threatens to boil the planet and kill billions of people. I don't think God has looked up "grace" in the dictionary.

    You're welcome. :)

    And congrats to Muslims winning several key races yesterday. :)

    It was an analogy. Given the history of Christianity, especially when Islam is invented, can it be said that Christianity's response to Islam was founded on reason?

    Tell me the quotes on this page aren't appeals to emotion or incredulity or both.
    Christianity and Islam - Wikipedia

    Or this:Medieval Christian views on Muhammad - Wikipedia

    I'm sorry, but "Muhammad is a meanie-head who poo poos on his own mouth" (exaggerated slightly for effect) is not "rational".

    The topic was the reason Christianity prefers one over the other (and considering many Christians just want Jews around so they can die by Jesus, one wonders if one can call that a "preference"), not whether any of the religions were true.

    Judaism thought it was the last.
    Christianity thought it was the last.
    Islam thought it was the last.
    The Bahai think it is the last (sorta).

    Everyone thinks their Truth will be all that's left to say about something.

    The Holy Land didn't belong to Christians either.

    The only reason they had the Holy Land is because Romans had it and later legalized Christianity, making it theirs by default. According to the bible, the Holy Land was stolen by Hebrews. No one from the Abrahamic religions have a claim if you're willing to go back far enough.

    Didn't Christianity have "Baby Jesus" fanfics too, though?
     
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  11. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Not sure what you are meaning here hence I used the priviso "Tales that had fallen into disrepute... (ergo, left out of the Bible)


    Excellent post, btw. :)
     
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  12. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I did not attribute words to you that you did not use. I clearly stated that the quote was someone else's that you were reacting to or commenting on.
     
  13. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You're asking the wrong person entirely. In most matters religious, I'll likely be of the opinion that almost nothing being said in the spirit of the religion is rational.

    And don't get me wrong - I don't even necessarily disagree with the quote I referenced of yours. I was more concerned with @Epic Beard Man's over-the-top reaction to it, and his wholehearted acceptance of it in light of the fact that it supports his view, when he had attempted to dismiss or discredit every other opinion being posted (and there were plenty, of course) that didn't work with his chosen position. Mind you... he was not arguing against the opinions or positions being taken at all. He was merely treating them wholly flippantly, with an air about him suggesting that he didn't even need to take them into consideration or waste his time. His reply to your post was basically a confirmation of exactly what all that prior attempt at dismissal meant. He was merely pining for a sympathetic ear.
     
    #113 A Vestigial Mote, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  14. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    That's only the Muslims from the countries that western forces are bombing into submission, before the bombing and or the overthrow of their governments by covert means, things were cool.
     
  15. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Oh like Pakistan?
     
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  16. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    And it's not permissible for a Christian to pray in either. I don't see what your point is in making this claim. From what I gather, your entire point is "Why do Christians side more with the Jews if the Jews side with the Muslims?" Do you therefore think that we should side with the Muslims instead, who we have a significantly worse history with?

    I don't know any serious Christian scholars who actually claim that Muslims worship a moon-deity. The only people I've ever seen make that argument have been quacks. One could just as confidently argue that Jews and Christians worship a storm god.

    Allow me to quote another post I made to you:

    "Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Pakistan, Boko Haram, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, the Ottomans, the Fatimids, al-Andalus..."

    Orthodox Christians were killed in the Crusader onslaught too. And they were being killed by the Crusaders long before the latter got to Jerusalem. Again, not sure how the Crusades came into this conversation.

    Because that's the historical reality we lived under. The Islamic modus operandi was to place Christians and Jews under political and social pressure to renounce their faiths and become Muslim. It worked on most of the Bosnians, Egyptians, Syrians, Palestinians and Albanians. It might have eventually ended up working in Greece, Romania and Serbia.

    An abused wife doesn't excuse her husband's abuse because of the "good aspects" of the relationship. Whatever good came out of the Islamic Golden Age doesn't excuse their oppression and cultural/military genocide of Christians.

    Alright, and we say the Muslims are wrong for rejecting the Gospels and Jesus' Divinity and for calling Muhammad a prophet, and the Jews say the Muslims are wrong for calling Jesus the Messiah and calling the Tanakh corrupt. We all think the other two religions are wrong in one way or another. Your point is?

    Great, that's what Maimonides says. I know Orthodox Jews who will say that Orthodox Christianity has a much more similar ethos to Orthodox Judaism than Islam does. Christians have also called Jews apostates throughout the millennia for rejecting Jesus, and thereby rejecting God. Again, we all say that the other two religions are wrong on theological grounds. At least the Jews accept the Law and the Prophets. In our eyes, Islam doesn't accept the Law or the Prophets or Jesus; the way we see it, Muhammad just made up his own version of all of these. So even from a Christian theological perspective, Judaism has a closer kinship to us than does Islam. We share a vast amount of scriptures and history. Islam shares none of that with us. Islam says they have all the same prophets as Judaism and Christianity, yet uses none of the texts from either the Gospels or the Tanakh unless they're trying to convert us. At least we can relate to Judaism. Islam is just utterly foreign.
     
    #116 Shiranui117, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  17. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Excellent example of a failed state with full U.S. support.
     
  18. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    This
     
  19. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    The views that these people hold are absolutely irrelevant as far as 85% of the world's Christians are concerned. They're a VERY small minority; basically every single Christian denomination that is actually established in the Levant dismisses them out of hand. The Rapture as a belief is only about 200 years old.

    Evangelical Christians are 1: a very new branch of American Christianity, and 2: utterly irrelevant outside the American sphere of influence. So their opinions really have no bearing on me or on 90% of Christians worldwide.
     
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  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Christian faith is rooted in the parables taught by a Jew

    in ancient times religion was enforced....by sword
    when Moses came down from the Mount
    3,000 of his own people were killed
    something about a false idol

    swords drawn.....people dying
    seems Islam has a similar practice

    I don't follow Muhammad, or Moses

    and the Carpenter is my Inspiration

    otherwise
    I don't follow anyone
    and no one follows me

    no religion
     
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