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Featured Why do Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    When looking at the relationship between Islam and Christianity I'm referring to the entire relationship since the beginning. There is ample evidence that Christianity at least the Christianity as practiced by the Europeans had more of a damaging relationship with everyone.
     
  2. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Um, no actually. You made a thread some time ago referring to some Japanese girl and you made references of admiration to this person as if you were worshipping her. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has seen this. You've also made thread questioning God. you've made some bizarre threads about God. I don't want to play the game of exposing you cause I will but this thread isn't about you so I wont even go there. Let's just drop it.
     
  3. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    See this, this should help:

     
  4. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    So not Slovakian accent, then.

    If you can't bring the church to the disco, you bring the disco to the church!
     
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  5. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Really? What about the Crusades?

    "After a long seige they captured Jerusalem in 1099. The attack was brutal, with thousands killed. A Christian source from the time claimed that The slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles.

    The loss of Jerusalem was a terrible blow to the Muslims. Christians took control of the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock. Jewish people, who had hidden in their synagogues, were also killed by the Crusaders. The Crusaders now established a kingdom around Jerusalem."

    When Saladin took Jerusalem back what did he do? He allowed anyone wanting to leave safely. you see the Caliphs in various times all had different agendas based on the geopolitical position. People think the issue concerning the advancement of Islam was purely religious and in fact several accounts historically have shown Muslims have had a lot of in-fighting themselves and different Muslim armies were fighting each other.
     
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  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Finally! Someone that actually took time and read instead of posting garbage answers that are emotionally drawn from biases instead of reason. People are like "well Islam killed Christians" and I'm like "Okay, but that doesn't answer the thread's question." Theologically, Jews will say they have less in common with Christians and more with Muslims and considering the blind fervor of Christian loyalty to Jews, and their global ministries, why would you support a group who in turn believes your belief is heretical? So in your above analogy thank you for actually reading the damn thread!

    Well I used the sociopolitical issue over there as a Segway to my point which relates to this:



    Right, and I'm aware that this is something that is going on.

    Bingo! I'm glad you mentioned this because as it is expressed today, Christianity for the most part is not presented as a "middle east" religion as it once was. The customs and the approach to its worldview has developed into a type of American/European style faith.
     
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  7. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of good responses here. I will focus on the scriptures you quoted and the implications thereof.

    First off, Muslims don't believe in the trinity, either, and Muslims also believe Christians to be polytheists and heretics.

    As to your scriptural quotation, it is dangerous to take such passages at face value, especially since you seem to apply it to all Jews, even those not living in the time of Christ. I say you're applying it to all Jews living because you're quoting the passage as evidence that we shouldn't necessarily side with Jews over Muslims.

    Pilate is depicted as somewhat helpless and even benevolent toward Jesus in the gospels, but as mentioned by Elaine Pagels in The Origin of Satan, this is not the Pilate we know from historical Jewish and Roman sources. The gospel writers possibly wanted to play down the brutality of the Roman government to decrease chance of persecution by the authorities. The Roman government persecuted and crucified thousands of Jews. Pilate was ruthless in his persecution of Jews.

    Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have to suspend your critical faculty when reading the Bible. This is especially important if you are prone to take a stance against supporting Jews -- which does not necessarily entail Zionism or support of Isreali policies -- based on scripture or what some Jews *may* have done.

    Perhaps unintentionally you seem to insinuate or come close to insinuating that Jews collectively are guilty of deicide, the murder of Christ. This is a seriously harmful charge that has led to innumerable persecutions of Jews by Christians over the centuries.

    As an aside, to counteract the danger inherent in the passage of scripture you quoted, Pope Benedict XVI reinterpreted the plea for Christ's blood to be upon them and their children as a prayer for Christ's blood and sacrifice to redeem and save them and their Jewish descendents. I doubt this interpretation was the author's intention, but something has to be done about scriptures like this. The Church believes the intention of the Holy Spirit in inspiring the text overrides the author's intentions, which in any case are unknown.
     
    #47 EverChanging, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Eh, okay, it's not from what I have seen with my own two eyes on what he has written in the past but okay.
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well to know what the thoughtful Muslims has to say on the subject read their Qu'ran that speaks for itself.
     
  10. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    So now there are false Jews now? Judaism is a monotheistic faith, like Islam, they believe in an indivisible Creator of the universe and earth. God is not a father, nor was God in the form of a man as it is presented in Christianity. Jews and Muslims consider this blasphemy. Jews do not believe in the existence of Jesus but I'm sure most Jews believe in the ministry of Jesus as a historical person they do not believe yet Muslims believe in your Jesus and in fact the belief in Jesus is central component to Islam. One is not Muslim if they do not believe in all the Biblical prophets all the way to Adam. So again, why would a Christian support a religious group that doesn't even endorse their own faith?
     
  11. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I'm sorry EBM...you go on speaking of theology, but the answer to your thread has nothing to do with theology.

    Again: let's try an experiment: attend a mosque, a church, and a synagogue for a week,...and u'll get what I mean.
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    False. There are Muslims here in the United States that have done so. But alas, this doesn't answer the theological dilemma I expressed in the beginning of this thread.

    The Jews have acclimated to whose culture? Jews have lived under the occupation of many empires in history from Egypt to Roman so you had to acclimate like everyone else. But Jews haven't lived among Christians for centuries because under the early Roman empire (even during Jesus' time) there was no such thing as Christianity.

    And Christianity is not backwards? It seems you are so staunch on your "culture" that you forget that the early Christians were Jews themselves who had a different culture than what is presented today. I'm sure if Jesus were here today he wouldn't share "your culture because he is historically Jewish and would have a culture of his own.

    I think your main issue is cultural as opposed to religious. The actions of people in those regions are cultural as opposed to religious because those areas have problems on a geopolitical level. Unfortunately the actions of a desperate people with little education and hopelessness will seem to have a religious component and although some have, in the eyes of people with nothing religion is all they have.
     
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  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Jesus was a Jew
     
  14. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    If you read my original position I'm mainly referencing theology. I only mentioned the settlement issue in the Palestinian/Israeli situation as a Segway to a point I was making. Jews do not support anything Christians believe in theologically and some will go on to say they have more in common with Muslims than Christians. In fact Jews are permitted to pray in a mosque than a Church considering mosques have no idols. Yet Christians go out of their way to demonize Islamic theology yet to Jews it is normal monotheism of the Abrahamic type (although still heretical in their eyes).
     
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  15. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Thank you for pointing that out
     
  16. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    That is an interesting position thank you for that post!
     
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  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    please.....a fresh op and thread for this
     
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  18. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    But this thread isn’t about the behavior of what fanatics do. This is talking about the overall theological difference in relation to Jews and Christians compared to the theological similarity between Jews and Muslims. Pope was derailing the thread with his rant and like sheep you followed. Re-read my OP
     
  19. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Right but the Christian support of Israel is not entirely altruistic then if we take Christian eschatology seriously.
     
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  20. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    This thread is about theology
     
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