Why do Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

[Epic Beard Man]

What about all the persecution of minority Christians in Muslim countries?

Edit: Not even necessarily minority Christians. Like in Nigeria for example Christians are a majority yet they are still targets of terrorist attacks from Boko Haram.

When looking at the relationship between Islam and Christianity I'm referring to the entire relationship since the beginning. There is ample evidence that Christianity at least the Christianity as practiced by the Europeans had more of a damaging relationship with everyone.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Every Christian Church on the face of the Earth before the 16th century permitted people to pray to the deceased. Your post shows a lot of ignorance on your idea of what is and is not traditionally Christian.

Um, no actually. You made a thread some time ago referring to some Japanese girl and you made references of admiration to this person as if you were worshipping her. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has seen this. You've also made thread questioning God. you've made some bizarre threads about God. I don't want to play the game of exposing you cause I will but this thread isn't about you so I wont even go there. Let's just drop it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Evangelicals are protestant not Roman Catholic or Orthodox. Evangelicals have miracles services, lots of media shows on radio and TV. They are doctrinally very similar to southern baptists but have a strong charismatic influence. There is not a monolithic single evangelical organization. They have many different ministries, so there are different groups of churches that are evangelical but do not have it in their titles. Examples are bahamasfaithministries.org, www.roberttiltonlive.com, www.kcm.org, and there are many more. Talking up Israel is a kind of party trick much like having a healing service, sending out missionaries to a far away place etc. Its about legitimizing the minister.

See this, this should help:

 

[Tumah]

It's an Italian choir...they're Italian kids

So not Slovakian accent, then.

Well..it's a common song in Catholic masses...when the priest says "exchange a sign of peace"

If you can't bring the church to the disco, you bring the disco to the church!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Given that Muslims have a 1400-year history of killing, enslaving and oppressing Christians, we really don't have any reason to favor them over Jews. Both Islamic caliphates and Jewish Zionism have done damage to Christianity in our Middle Eastern homelands, Islam moreso.

Really? What about the Crusades?

"After a long seige they captured Jerusalem in 1099. The attack was brutal, with thousands killed. A Christian source from the time claimed that The slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles.

The loss of Jerusalem was a terrible blow to the Muslims. Christians took control of the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock. Jewish people, who had hidden in their synagogues, were also killed by the Crusaders. The Crusaders now established a kingdom around Jerusalem."

When Saladin took Jerusalem back what did he do? He allowed anyone wanting to leave safely. you see the Caliphs in various times all had different agendas based on the geopolitical position. People think the issue concerning the advancement of Islam was purely religious and in fact several accounts historically have shown Muslims have had a lot of in-fighting themselves and different Muslim armies were fighting each other.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Christianity wanted to believe it was the LAST. Unlike Judaism, Islam proves it isn't so. It's like the youngest child throwing a tantrum because there's a new baby on the way.

Finally! Someone that actually took time and read instead of posting garbage answers that are emotionally drawn from biases instead of reason. People are like "well Islam killed Christians" and I'm like "Okay, but that doesn't answer the thread's question." Theologically, Jews will say they have less in common with Christians and more with Muslims and considering the blind fervor of Christian loyalty to Jews, and their global ministries, why would you support a group who in turn believes your belief is heretical? So in your above analogy thank you for actually reading the damn thread!

If it makes you feel better, I consider what the Israeli government is doing is remarkably immoral.

Well I used the sociopolitical issue over there as a Segway to my point which relates to this:

The Israeli government sucks at the tit of Orthodox Judaism (their fundies) and doesn't really care about non-Orthodox Jews, Christians, or Muslims. They want to be a Jewish-only state and even THEN, the "right" kind of Jews.

Right, and I'm aware that this is something that is going on.

To be fair, all the religions infuse cultural issues into their beliefs. Hinduism would look very different if it was invented in Ireland or Egypt or Kentucky.

Bingo! I'm glad you mentioned this because as it is expressed today, Christianity for the most part is not presented as a "middle east" religion as it once was. The customs and the approach to its worldview has developed into a type of American/European style faith.

 

[EverChanging]

This is a sincere question

I really do not get the logic to be honest. I've listened to Jewish sermons and upon fielding some of the congregate questions some rabbis jokingly mention Jesus or actually refer to him as "JC" in a joking way. Anecdotally, I've seen Jews mock Christians for their belief (of course I've seen opposite as well), heck even in the very Bible it says in the following:

"When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. 'I am innocent of this man’s blood,' he said. 'It is your responsibility!' All the people answered, 'His blood is on us and on our children!' (Greek: Τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν)."

Of course there are modern interpretations to what the above verse means, but the point is observant Jews do not believe in Jesus (as well as the trinity) and in fact according to Jews, Jesus failed several test to be considered a Moshiach. On the other hand Muslims believe in Jesus, believe in his messianic mission, believe that there was an attempt to crucify him and even believe in the various miracles performed by Jesus. Muslims also say "peace be upon him" upon the very mentioning of Jesus' name. Now of course there are linguistic differences between Arab speaking Muslims and Arab Christians upon the name of Jesus, as Christian Arabs refer to Jesus as Yasu and Arabic speaking Muslims refer to Jesus as Isa ibn Maryum but more importantly regardless of the name Muslims are commanded to believe in Jesus.

What perplexes me are the Christians who are so animated in their blind support of Judaism, Israel, and settlements that encroach on the lands of Palestinians because Jews are so-called "God's chosen people," yet they fail to realize from a religious point of view, the very people they support believe they are pagans and polytheists. I mean, if there is no temple Jews are allowed to pray in a mosque and forbidden to pray in a church. Jews have referred to God as Allah, and there are Jews that readily say they have more in common with Muslims than Christians and with that being said out of sincerity to Christian believers why do you continue your theological fight against Muslims yet support Jews?

You can mention history between Judaism and Christianity, but Muslims have no history Biblically and yet Jews at least the religious ones I'm familiar with believe Muslims are very much monotheists as they are and yet Christians in the majority continue to doubt Muslims and very much Islam.

There are lots of good responses here. I will focus on the scriptures you quoted and the implications thereof.

First off, Muslims don't believe in the trinity, either, and Muslims also believe Christians to be polytheists and heretics.

As to your scriptural quotation, it is dangerous to take such passages at face value, especially since you seem to apply it to all Jews, even those not living in the time of Christ. I say you're applying it to all Jews living because you're quoting the passage as evidence that we shouldn't necessarily side with Jews over Muslims.

Pilate is depicted as somewhat helpless and even benevolent toward Jesus in the gospels, but as mentioned by Elaine Pagels in The Origin of Satan, this is not the Pilate we know from historical Jewish and Roman sources. The gospel writers possibly wanted to play down the brutality of the Roman government to decrease chance of persecution by the authorities. The Roman government persecuted and crucified thousands of Jews. Pilate was ruthless in his persecution of Jews.

Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have to suspend your critical faculty when reading the Bible. This is especially important if you are prone to take a stance against supporting Jews -- which does not necessarily entail Zionism or support of Isreali policies -- based on scripture or what some Jews *may* have done.

Perhaps unintentionally you seem to insinuate or come close to insinuating that Jews collectively are guilty of deicide, the murder of Christ. This is a seriously harmful charge that has led to innumerable persecutions of Jews by Christians over the centuries.

As an aside, to counteract the danger inherent in the passage of scripture you quoted, Pope Benedict XVI reinterpreted the plea for Christ's blood to be upon them and their children as a prayer for Christ's blood and sacrifice to redeem and save them and their Jewish descendents. I doubt this interpretation was the author's intention, but something has to be done about scriptures like this. The Church believes the intention of the Holy Spirit in inspiring the text overrides the author's intentions, which in any case are unknown.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Pope's practices aren't much different from Haitians who continue to practice Vodoun alongside Catholicism. Catholicism gets mixed in with different cultures all over the world. As long as he doesn't worship another deity aside or above the Trinity, he's not really doing anything against Church teaching.

Eh, okay, it's not from what I have seen with my own two eyes on what he has written in the past but okay.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I'd rather hear what a thoughtful Muslim has to say on the subject, thanks.

Well to know what the thoughtful Muslims has to say on the subject read their Qu'ran that speaks for itself.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That all depends on which Jews those are.

Back during the time of Jesus, Jesus had many run-ins with those Jews, Who said they were Jews, but were not a true Jew of Israel.

Even the 12 disciples of Jesus were Jews, But yet they were Christians.
I'm a Jew, But yet I'm a Christian.

The most problem people have, is that they can not distinguish between a true Jew of Israel and the false Jew of Israel.

Jesus many times pointed out those false Jew's, that even in the book of Revelation Jesus points out those false Jew's.
It was the false Jew's of Israel who had Jesus crucified.

John 8:39-44.
In verse 41 those Jews said unto Jesus,
( We have one Father, even God)

But now notice what Jesus said back unto those Jews ( Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father)
Notice two words ( If ) ( were ) meaning that God the Father is not their Father.

Notice Jesus does tells these Jews who exactly is their father in Verse 44--"You are of your father the devil)

Notice even in the book of Revelation Jesus shows the false Jew's of Israel.
Revelation 2:9---" I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan"

Even in the book of Romans distinguish between the two Jews.one true and one False.
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

All this plainly shows there are those Jews who claim to be of Israel and are not.

So there are two Jews of Israel. One claiming to be of Israel and are not.but are the false Jew's of Israel.
And there are those Jews who are of Israel.The True Jews of Israel.
Hopefully this may clear things up a bit.
Who is the true Jew's of Israel and who's the false Jew's of Israel.

That both claiming to be of Israel, But only one is the True Jew's of Israel.

It's the same with Christians, there are the true Christians and there's the false Christians.

Now to distinguish between the two of them, Whos, who?

So now there are false Jews now? Judaism is a monotheistic faith, like Islam, they believe in an indivisible Creator of the universe and earth. God is not a father, nor was God in the form of a man as it is presented in Christianity. Jews and Muslims consider this blasphemy. Jews do not believe in the existence of Jesus but I'm sure most Jews believe in the ministry of Jesus as a historical person they do not believe yet Muslims believe in your Jesus and in fact the belief in Jesus is central component to Islam. One is not Muslim if they do not believe in all the Biblical prophets all the way to Adam. So again, why would a Christian support a religious group that doesn't even endorse their own faith?

 

[Estro Felino]

Finally! Someone that actually took time and read instead of posting garbage answers that are emotionally drawn from biases instead of reason. People are like "well Islam killed Christians" and I'm like "Okay, but that doesn't answer the thread's question." Theologically, Jews will say they have less in common with Christians and more with Muslims and considering the blind fervor of Christian loyalty to Jews, and their global ministries, why would you support a group who in turn believes your belief is heretical? So in your above analogy thank you for actually reading the damn thread!

.

I'm sorry EBM...you go on speaking of theology, but the answer to your thread has nothing to do with theology.

Again: let's try an experiment: attend a mosque, a church, and a synagogue for a week,...and u'll get what I mean.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think it is because Muslims have yet to acclimatise themselves to Western ways.

False. There are Muslims here in the United States that have done so. But alas, this doesn't answer the theological dilemma I expressed in the beginning of this thread.

The Jews have lived among us for centuries and have integrated almost seamlessly from a cultural point of view.

The Jews have acclimated to whose culture? Jews have lived under the occupation of many empires in history from Egypt to Roman so you had to acclimate like everyone else. But Jews haven't lived among Christians for centuries because under the early Roman empire (even during Jesus' time) there was no such thing as Christianity.

Muslims, by contrast, often go out of their way to assert their different-ness and seem to make no attempt to integrate at all. When you combine that with what looks to Christian eyes like backward cultural practices, such as veiling women and seemingly denying them any sort of parity with men, you have your explanation, I think.

And Christianity is not backwards? It seems you are so staunch on your "culture" that you forget that the early Christians were Jews themselves who had a different culture than what is presented today. I'm sure if Jesus were here today he wouldn't share "your culture because he is historically Jewish and would have a culture of his own.

Personally, I have lived in the Arab world for a few years and can see many things about Islam that are attractive and deserve respect, so I would be delighted if more muslims would make the points you do and show a welcoming face to Christianity. We are all people of the Book. However just this week we see Pakistanis demonstrating in the streets against the judicial decision not to execute a Christian woman, who was on death row for years for allegedly maligning the Prophet! Civilised people do not kill people over religious disagreements. What we need in my view is for enlightened Muslims (like you?) to take a more public stand against this extremism and show there is a different sort of cultivated islam, as there was throughout most of history until this horrible Political Islam came along recently.

I think your main issue is cultural as opposed to religious. The actions of people in those regions are cultural as opposed to religious because those areas have problems on a geopolitical level. Unfortunately the actions of a desperate people with little education and hopelessness will seem to have a religious component and although some have, in the eyes of people with nothing religion is all they have.

 

[Thief]

This is a sincere question

Jesus was a Jew

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm sorry EBM...you go on speaking of theology, but the answer to your thread has nothing to do with theology.

Again: let's try an experiment: attend a mosque, a church, and a synagogue for a week,...and u'll get what I mean.

If you read my original position I'm mainly referencing theology. I only mentioned the settlement issue in the Palestinian/Israeli situation as a Segway to a point I was making. Jews do not support anything Christians believe in theologically and some will go on to say they have more in common with Muslims than Christians. In fact Jews are permitted to pray in a mosque than a Church considering mosques have no idols. Yet Christians go out of their way to demonize Islamic theology yet to Jews it is normal monotheism of the Abrahamic type (although still heretical in their eyes).

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Jesus was a Jew

Thank you for pointing that out

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If we look at this simply, we will never understand all the texts properly.

In Paul's letters he says, 'first Jew, and then Gentile', that 'the Gentiles are grafted onto the House of Israel'. John says 'Salvation is from the Jews'. - So they make it a duty to accept Judah, even tho Zechariah 11 divorced them soon after for paying 30 pieces of silver for Yeshua.

John, Paul, and Simon are Pharisees who have misled the world as prophesied; they tell people to 'believe' in these fundamental points of Christianity, which the Quran directly contradicts: 'jesus as our Lord and savior', 'jesus died and resurrected for us', God sent jesus to be a sacrifice for us', 'jesus and the father as one', 'jesus as son of God'.

So we have the fake Christian church that stands against the Prophets, Yeshua's teachings in the Synoptic Gospels, and the Quran tries to incorrectly point this out... Rabbinic Judaism which has also been mislead by Pharisaic doctrine, accepts concepts within John, and Paul as these were Pharisaic expectations.

So whereas Rabbinic Judaism sides with, and is the founder of Christianity; Islam tried to correct it...

Tho when we examine the Tanakh prophecies properly, all 3 religions are wrong, and most people have been deceived on purpose by the Great Deception.

In my opinion.

That is an interesting position thank you for that post!

 

[Thief]

Tho when we examine the Tanakh prophecies properly, all 3 religions are wrong, and most people have been deceived on purpose by the Great Deception.

please.....a fresh op and thread for this

 

[Epic Beard Man]

On a gut level I think @PopeADope has a valid point. Not sure if you can find many examples of Jews strapping bombs under their prayer shawls and targeting Christians. If it quacks like a duck, etc.

But this thread isn’t about the behavior of what fanatics do. This is talking about the overall theological difference in relation to Jews and Christians compared to the theological similarity between Jews and Muslims. Pope was derailing the thread with his rant and like sheep you followed. Re-read my OP

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think it's more that they don't care that Jews consider them polytheists.

And keep in mind that, especially in the evangelical community, "supporting Israel" is more about fulfilling prophecy than anything else. They think that the Second Coming - i.e. Armageddon - can't happen until the Jews accomplish certain things. These Christians also generally believe that any Jews who don't become Christian will be thrown into Hell when Armageddon comes, so I wouldn't say that they have especially high regard for the Jewish people.

Creating the conditions where you'll be slaughtered and then tortured in the afterlife isn't exactly the behaviour of a friend.

Right but the Christian support of Israel is not entirely altruistic then if we take Christian eschatology seriously.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Would a Jewish society treat a Christian in such a shameful and despicable way?

Is it any wonder that Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

Does the West feel the need to rule against free speech to protect “Religious Peace” for Judaism?

This thread is about theology