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Featured Why do Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    That said, if Judaism was practiced as it was in the Old Testament, Judaism would have more in common with Islam than Christianity.

    Jews do not enforce the laws of Moses though. Therefore there is no real threat coming from Jews on average. Jews are not enforcing what they enforced in ancient times or they would be a threat.

    Jews have gotten with the 21st century. Large amounts of Muslims still enforce barbaric, harsh, bigoted , and sexist laws, that have no place in the 21st century. It is a tragic disgrace that they would hold hundreds of millions of people back like Christians did hundreds of years ago.

    They simply need to get with our enlightened age.
     
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  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Every Christian Church on the face of the Earth before the 16th century permitted people to pray to the deceased. Your post shows a lot of ignorance on your idea of what is and is not traditionally Christian.
     
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  3. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Intercessory prayer is one of the absolute oldest parts of Christian practice, and was universally practiced until the Protestant Reformation. Why do you think Catholic, Orthodox and many Anglican churches have relics of Saints under the altar or in the antimens? It's because Mass/Liturgy was celebrated over the bones of deceased Christian martyrs. One of the oldest recorded Christian prayers (250 AD) asks for the intercession of Mary.
     
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  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Just a question, @Epic Beard Man
    These songs are sung, as you can see in two Christian Churches.
    Will we hear them sung in mosques?

    Answer this question in bold and u will find the answer to your thread



     
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  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    It's because of Zionism and some Evangelical sects believing that Jews have to be ruling over Israel as a requirement for the End Times. They pretend like they love the Jews but the Jews are just playing a role in their theology. Also, a lot of them hate Islam because they're simply xenophobes and they view Israel as Western and the whole "God's people's thing.

    Other, more traditional denominations, taught that Judaism is satanic and the Jews are in rebellion against God. But they mostly changed their tune after the Holocaust, especially the Catholic Church, which did almost a total 180 in its teachings about Jews (which has actually muddled the theology somewhat because they aren't supposed to try to convert Jews now but Christians are to preach the Gospel to all nations and all have to go through Christ to be saved, so how are Jews to be saved? - confusing). So since anti-Semitism is socially unacceptable in the West after WWII, they realized they couldn't say those things anymore and either watered down the teachings, dropped them or explain them in more polite ways.
     
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  6. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Christianity wanted to believe it was the LAST. Unlike Judaism, Islam proves it isn't so. It's like the youngest child throwing a tantrum because there's a new baby on the way.

    If it makes you feel better, I consider what the Israeli government is doing is remarkably immoral.

    The Israeli government sucks at the tit of Orthodox Judaism (their fundies) and doesn't really care about non-Orthodox Jews, Christians, or Muslims. They want to be a Jewish-only state and even THEN, the "right" kind of Jews.

    To be fair, all the religions infuse cultural issues into their beliefs. Hinduism would look very different if it was invented in Ireland or Egypt or Kentucky.

    This is from a Catholic source:
    Controversial Israeli law excludes non-Jews, Latin Patriarchate says – Catholic World Report

     
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  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Pope's practices aren't much different from Haitians who continue to practice Vodoun alongside Catholicism. Catholicism gets mixed in with different cultures all over the world. As long as he doesn't worship another deity aside or above the Trinity, he's not really doing anything against Church teaching.
     
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  8. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Christians who believe the scriptures understand that Israel is about God, His name, His purpose, His prophetic word...

    .. For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion,that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Romans 11:25

    Before Christ, God revealed Himself through His chosen people and nation Israel.
    Since Christ, we are in the age of grace, the Church Age and God is calling out Jews and non-Jews together as one Body, the church.

    Christians support the Jews and the nation of Israel because they believe God and know God is not finished working through Israel. As soon as the ...fullness of the Gentiles in complete God will again deal with and through Israel... for His name's sake, which include the promises He made with regard to the land promised to the Jews.

    Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. Ezekiel 36:22


    And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:


    “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:26-27



     
  9. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Another point is that "belief" is subjective. As long as one harms none, criticising his belief is bagatellizing his feelings/belief,
     
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  10. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I love the girls singing. Beautiful. I met a Muslim and when I told him I love the singing in the church and that is a main reason I like to visit, he told me that singing is very bad according to Islam; he called it haram and he calls it even a sin. Now you mention it, I googled and found an article agreeing.

    When others generalize their religion as a dogma for others obviously they don't go well together. Too many dogma's. It goes against free will on a subtle level (you don't kill the other but mentally send him into hell calling him a sinner). Judging feelings/beliefs is not a good practice for keeping the peace.

    Ruling on music, singing and dancing - Islam Question & Answer
    Conclusion

    Perhaps – for fair-minded and objective readers – this summary will make it clear that the view that music is permissible has no firm basis. There are no two views on this matter. So we must advise in the best manner, and then take it step by step and denounce music, if we are able to do so. We should not be deceived by the fame of a man in our own times in which the people who are truly committed to Islam have become strangers. The one who says that singing and musical instruments are permitted is simply supporting the whims of people nowadays, as if the masses were issuing fatwas and he is simply signing them! If a matter arises, they will look at the views of fuqahaa’ on this matter, then they will take the easiest view, as they claim. Then they will look for evidence, or just specious arguments which are worth no more than a lump of dead meat. How often have these people approved things in the name of sharee’ah which in fact have nothing to do with Islam!

    Strive to learn your Islam from the Book of your Lord and the Sunnah of your Prophet. Do not say, So-and-so said, for you cannot learn the truth only from men. Learn the truth and then measure people against it. This should be enough for the one who controls his whims and submits himself to his Lord. May what we have written above heal the hearts of the believers and dispel the whispers in the hearts of those who are stricken with insinuating whispers. May it expose everyone who is deviating from the path of Revelation and taking the easiest options, thinking that he has come up with something which none of the earlier generations ever achieved, and speaking about Allaah without knowledge. They sought to avoid fisq (evildoing) and ended up committing bid’ah – may Allaah not bless them in it. It would have been better for them to follow the path of the believers.

    And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless and grant peace to His Messenger who made clear the path of the believers, and to his companions and those who follow them in truth until the Day of Judgement.

    Summary of a paper entitled al-Darb bi’l-Nawa li man abaaha al-Ma’aazif li’l-Hawa by Shaykh Sa’d al-Deen ibn Muhammad al-Kibbi.

    For more information, please see:

    Al-I’laam bi Naqd Kitaab al-Halaal wa’l-Haraam, by Shaykh al-‘Allaamah Saalih ibn Fawzaan al-Fawzaan

    Al-Samaa’ by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn al-Qayyim

    Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarab, by Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him)
     
    #30 stvdv, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    That all depends on which Jews those are.

    Back during the time of Jesus, Jesus had many run-ins with those Jews, Who said they were Jews, but were not a true Jew of Israel.

    Even the 12 disciples of Jesus were Jews, But yet they were Christians.
    I'm a Jew, But yet I'm a Christian.

    The most problem people have, is that they can not distinguish between a true Jew of Israel and the false Jew of Israel.

    Jesus many times pointed out those false Jew's, that even in the book of Revelation Jesus points out those false Jew's.
    It was the false Jew's of Israel who had Jesus crucified.

    John 8:39-44.
    In verse 41 those Jews said unto Jesus,
    ( We have one Father, even God)

    But now notice what Jesus said back unto those Jews ( Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father)
    Notice two words ( If ) ( were ) meaning that God the Father is not their Father.

    Notice Jesus does tells these Jews who exactly is their father in Verse 44--"You are of your father the devil)

    Notice even in the book of Revelation Jesus shows the false Jew's of Israel.
    Revelation 2:9---" I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan"

    Even in the book of Romans distinguish between the two Jews.one true and one False.
    Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

    All this plainly shows there are those Jews who claim to be of Israel and are not.

    So there are two Jews of Israel. One claiming to be of Israel and are not.but are the false Jew's of Israel.
    And there are those Jews who are of Israel.The True Jews of Israel.
    Hopefully this may clear things up a bit.
    Who is the true Jew's of Israel and who's the false Jew's of Israel.

    That both claiming to be of Israel, But only one is the True Jew's of Israel.

    It's the same with Christians, there are the true Christians and there's the false Christians.

    Now to distinguish between the two of them, Whos, who?
     
    #31 Faithofchristian, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  12. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I think it is because Muslims have yet to acclimatise themselves to Western ways. The Jews have lived among us for centuries and have integrated almost seamlessly from a cultural point of view. Muslims, by contrast, often go out of their way to assert their different-ness and seem to make no attempt to integrate at all. When you combine that with what looks to Christian eyes like backward cultural practices, such as veiling women and seemingly denying them any sort of parity with men, you have your explanation, I think.

    Personally, I have lived in the Arab world for a few years and can see many things about Islam that are attractive and deserve respect, so I would be delighted if more muslims would make the points you do and show a welcoming face to Christianity. We are all people of the Book. However just this week we see Pakistanis demonstrating in the streets against the judicial decision not to execute a Christian woman, who was on death row for years for allegedly maligning the Prophet! Civilised people do not kill people over religious disagreements. What we need in my view is for enlightened Muslims (like you?) to take a more public stand against this extremism and show there is a different sort of cultivated islam, as there was throughout most of history until this horrible Political Islam came along recently.
     
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  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    But however, as the Qu'ran and Muhammad stands against Jews and Christians, so it will continue.

    What it is, is that some where back in Muhammad life, he had a bad run-in with some Jews and Christians, that prompted Muhammad to write the things that he did in the Qu'ran about Jews and Christians.

    That now, Muslims continue down the same road as did muhammad, believing all Jews and Christians are bad.

    So as its been given in Prophecy in the book of Revelation, this will continue all the way down to the coming of Christ Jesus.
     
  14. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Psalm 23:4 in Hebrew, I'm impressed.
    Is that an Italian accent?

    And a 1976 song from the Sabra Disco Band, still sung today in Zionist circles. I guess not just the Jewish Zionist circles.
     
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  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    If we look at this simply, we will never understand all the texts properly.

    In Paul's letters he says, 'first Jew, and then Gentile', that 'the Gentiles are grafted onto the House of Israel'. John says 'Salvation is from the Jews'. - So they make it a duty to accept Judah, even tho Zechariah 11 divorced them soon after for paying 30 pieces of silver for Yeshua.

    John, Paul, and Simon are Pharisees who have misled the world as prophesied; they tell people to 'believe' in these fundamental points of Christianity, which the Quran directly contradicts: 'jesus as our Lord and savior', 'jesus died and resurrected for us', God sent jesus to be a sacrifice for us', 'jesus and the father as one', 'jesus as son of God'.

    So we have the fake Christian church that stands against the Prophets, Yeshua's teachings in the Synoptic Gospels, and the Quran tries to incorrectly point this out... Rabbinic Judaism which has also been mislead by Pharisaic doctrine, accepts concepts within John, and Paul as these were Pharisaic expectations.

    So whereas Rabbinic Judaism sides with, and is the founder of Christianity; Islam tried to correct it...

    Tho when we examine the Tanakh prophecies properly, all 3 religions are wrong, and most people have been deceived on purpose by the Great Deception.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  16. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It's an Italian choir...they're Italian kids:)
    Well..it's a common song in Catholic masses...when the priest says "exchange a sign of peace":D
     
  17. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather hear what a thoughtful Muslim has to say on the subject, thanks.
     
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  18. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    On a gut level I think @PopeADope has a valid point. Not sure if you can find many examples of Jews strapping bombs under their prayer shawls and targeting Christians. If it quacks like a duck, etc.
     
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  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I think it's more that they don't care that Jews consider them polytheists.

    And keep in mind that, especially in the evangelical community, "supporting Israel" is more about fulfilling prophecy than anything else. They think that the Second Coming - i.e. Armageddon - can't happen until the Jews accomplish certain things. These Christians also generally believe that any Jews who don't become Christian will be thrown into Hell when Armageddon comes, so I wouldn't say that they have especially high regard for the Jewish people.

    Creating the conditions where you'll be slaughtered and then tortured in the afterlife isn't exactly the behaviour of a friend.
     
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  20. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Would a Jewish society treat a Christian in such a shameful and despicable way?



    Is it any wonder that Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

    Does the West feel the need to rule against free speech to protect “Religious Peace” for Judaism?
     
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