Why do believers love God?

[Link]

People who try to force me to love God only do so because they are insecure about God's love.

Of course, they are. Day of judgment type proof is a day when everyone is sure, but too late to love God and see his beauty. They will be sure of his existence. This world, love of God has more value because of how insecure we are about it mainly because God's light is not forced on creation and because we are tried by good and evil things, blessings and afflictions, his two hands, both which are meant for compassion and mercy. He let Iblis do his magic, shackle us into blindness and traps and ignite the hell upon us... then will save the believers from it who trust in his light and rely on him.

He appointed a light among the darkness of Iblis, a pole to pull us back to God and channel his honorable light to us, and to me it's Imam Mahdi. Of course, if we were super secure about this, then testimony to God and Mohammad's (s) Messengership would have no value.

It's not that we are not sure, it's that the certainty can be overturned, God can turn our hearts upside down and make us run to the darkness and worship Iblis, if we sin and become arrogant.

All this makes us all insecure, but has prepared for and only for those insecure of his wrath and what is before them and after them and fearful of their fate paradise. Aside from the chosen ones who he has guaranteed safety, none of us should feel safe or secure about our faith no matter what miracles we witnessed, what signs, and how much we know. Sins can destroy all that, a moment of arrogance can destroy all that.

 

[Clara Tea]

No. God knows all possible things to know, future is impossible to predict if free-will is a reality.

It was improbable, humans and Jinn rebelling against God was all improbable. Chances were Adam doesn't look towards the exalted ones (the blessed tree) with envy and chances were even after that, that humans would cling to God's guidance and chosen ones. Sure some disobedience was expected, but not this.

This is a disaster, that was improbable in God's calculations.

Yes, at this point. He and his master king on earth are trying their best, but they won't break the rules of this world, it's a trial after all, that we face like previous generations did.

God won't break his promise of giving him respite. The challenge was done, our failure grieves him, the culture of disbelief and rebelling passed on gives God great grief, but he won't override his word. There is no changing his word. Most so far are going to hell. Will this continue?

I don't know if it will or not continue, maybe most humans still can be saved if we can return to the Mahdi soon enough and on good terms.

Hell is the result of our actions and disbelief, apathy or hate stemmed, we can no longer earn value after witnessing day of judgment. So his wrath will never disappear or calm down for those who enter hell.

We have till death to reform ourselves then must face the consequences or benefits of what we reaped.

The Muslim/Islamic religion, to which you adhere, is a spin off of the Jewish religion. So, you are, essentially a Jew, and believe in the same God as the Jews and Christians. We are all God's children. However, you believe in the teachings of the prophet Mohammad, and that brought a much different view of the bible. I realize that you have your own bible, and it is not the New Testament. But, that is why conversations with you are so very interesting. You bring a new perspective, and perhaps a true perspective.

MAHDI AND KHOMENI:

Mahdi - Wikipedia

The website (above) from Wikipedia, defines "Mahdi": "In popular Muslim belief, a spiritual and temporal leader who will rule before the end of the world and restore religion and justice."

Iranian students that I spoke to were hoping for a spiritual and temporal leader who would restore religion and justice. They were taking classes with me in a California university, and they thought of me as immoral and uneducated because, though I knew a lot about Iranian literature, I didn't dedicate my life to it. I asked them if they dedicated their life to learning the literature of Native Americans of North Dakota, and I could almost hear crickets chirping. They felt that Iraq encompassed all civilization of the world, and it was huge. Yet, it is a tiny speck on the map, and other cultures exist, and other thoughts exist.

The outcome was the election of the Ayatollah Khomeni, and one of his first acts was to put to death Iranians who were educated in America because they had been corrupted by western ideas. This, of course, included a death warrant for the young Iranian lady that I mentioned above, and all of the Iranian students at my university, and all Iranian students in America. This was just the beginning of the unjust and cruel acts of Khomeni, and the Iranian people, themselves, came to despise him, and they were glad when they were finally able to get rid of him.

You hope that we will all return to the Mahdi. I am not convinced that most ever were with the Mahdi. Nor am I convinced that there ever will be a Mahdi. However, I feel that it is certain that many Middle Easter leaders will try to get the reputation of being the Mahdi, and so far, they have been cruel and unjust (like Khomeni). Taliban leaders, though not originally linked to terrorism, are/were harsh and unjust by western standards.

I assume that you agree that it was unjust for America to make unprovoked wars in the Middle East and torture camps.

GOD ALLOWS LUCIFER AND HELL:

Christians believe that God knows all, including the future. The Muslim idea of God is that he hapless about the future, bumping around from one idea to another without a clue about how the future will turn out. That's a lot of power without direction, focus, or purpose. Surely the Christian idea about God is that God is stronger than a God who knows nothing about the future. You claim that God (in your religion) thought that it was highly improbable that humans and Jinn would turn against Him. Christians believe that God knows the future, and would surely have seen the improbable outcome in advance.

According to Christianity, Lucifer used to be the perfect angel of heaven, then, eventually, God cast Lucifer out of heaven. But, according to the new testament, before God did that, Lucifer was still in heaven, and the New Testament bible says that there was one who "spoke like Lucifer" who Lucifer cast into hell. So, hell existed before Lucifer got there, and there were other foul spirits who occupied hell. Did Lucifer or God create hell?

Why does all-powerful God (that is, the Christian God who knows the future) allow hell and allow Lucifer? Maybe God has a plan and knows that everything will turn out better?

Maybe God's plan is to bake the errant souls in hell for thousands of years, with no hope of ever getting out of hell, then asking them again if they would prefer to follow God? Surely following God would be preferable to roasting in the lake of fire of hell for all eternity?

So maybe hell and Lucifer are serving God's plan to redeem sinners? Give them one last chance to join Him?

APATHY IS ONE TICKET TO HELL:

President W. Bush was too hasty in attacking Iraq and Afghanistan. He didn't want to wait for the Taliban to turn over captured bin Laden and his men (note that the Taliban were US allies after the 911 attack, and had captured bin Laden). Then W. Bush bore false witness against those whom he was fighting. He made cards with names like "doctor of death" and accused them falsely of being part of the "Axis of Evil" and said that he was "fighting evil." W. Bush made up lies that his soldiers were "defending America" rather than fighting "offensive wars" in the Middle East against enemies that had a mere fraction of the military might (bully). There is a big difference between defending and offending (being the defender and being the attacker). Should we murder 1,000,000 people of a nation not linked to terrorism in order to fell a tad bit safer?

American citizens assumed that the CIA, FBI, and military intelligence had secret intel that they could not reveal to the public. Colin Powell (who recently died of cancer, and now resides in the afterlife) lied to the American people and made them think that they were fighting an enemy. (Bearing false witness is prohibited by the 10 Commandments in the Old Testament Jewish bible to which Christians and Muslims adhere).

American citizens were apathetic as 1,000,000 Iranians were killed. Some felt that it was payback for the 911 attack in which 3,000 Americans died. Others felt that all nations of the Middle East were a thorn in the side of the United States. Others felt that the Middle East was hiding bin Laden and if they didn't have military action and topple nations, the US was a sitting duck for terrorism.

We can't be following God and apathetic as God's children are being slaughtered. We must at least make our voices heard.

MASTER KING OF GOD ON EARTH?

Who is the master of God? I thought that God was the top man?

 

[Link]

MASTER KING OF GOD ON EARTH?

Who is the master of God? I thought that God was the top man?

I don't mean that way, I mean God's appointed Master that rules and is his light and guides and guards souls on his behalf.

 

[Link]

I will respond to the post later. It seems you put a lot of thought, so I might wait a bit to respond and reflect.

 

[Link]

1. Khomeini inherited Fiqh that was evil generations to generations. His job was not to reform Islam totally, but revive political movement. Some of that get's ugly because of the Islam we got passed on that is filled with wrong hadiths and wrong interpretation of Islam. Khomeini may God sanctify his secret, couldn't do everything, but what he did was noble . His Islam is corrupt, but he had good intentions. Just couldn't disconnect himself from what he inherited from scholars.

2. There was a terrorism crisis - people were suicide bombing. The punishment for participating in these groups after warning to disband, were harsh, maybe too harsh, maybe not. Evidence was sought but obviously some innocents paid the price too where evidence was hasty because of the terrorism. This was a crisis and there's never a real ideal way to deal with these situations. Calling these punishment in the name of apostasy was a mistake, really, it was not due apostasy but due to trying to stop terrorism and bombs everywhere.

3. God's plans take account Iblis and his forces plans, and there are back up plans, God wants us to avoid his back up plans that result in destruction of civilizations and cities who are oppressive. Anyways, future not being written does not mean God is clueless. It means we can choose improbable outcomes, to me, if this world was a probable outcome with all it's evils, then God should not have created it. It was improbable, but now we have to deal with what we have. God has back up plans, and we in some back up plans of back up plans. He never is not planning and everything falls in his will and one of his plans depending on our actions .He wants to avoid some of his plans and warns about it so we avoid them.

4. Apathy is a ticket to hell, and it's as Imam Mohammad Al-Jewad (9th Imam) (a) said "Three are partners, the oppressor, the supporter, and the one who (just) watches". We agree upon that. You have good light going in that regard.

5. Imam Mahdi will bring miracles like past Messengers brought, and also be supported by others like Jesus, Elijah, Enoch, Khidr, and they will perform miracles too and testify to him. It can't just be a human leader unless you are talking about the Sunni version, which, yes, does scare me too if people follow a leader claiming to the Mahdi without miracles. That can be set up by dark forces and Satan, and he can misguide us if this is the case.

 

[Clara Tea]

The light is connected to you and all things. Believe in the Lord of the light and discover what and who the light of God is.

Some psychics see a white cord of light connecting them to their roving spirits. They feel that they can remote view distant locations.

Walks through a sunken dream: the CIA report on life on Mars

According to the website, above, the CIA sent their psychic on a remote view of Mars 1,000,000 years ago to talk to Martians (tall, thin people with strange clothes, in pyramidal dwellings who must wait following an environmental catastrophe). President George W. Bush continued to fund the psychic project (MKULTRA) that his father had funded, which had existed since the 1950's.

Currently, the US is sending another probe to Mars, searching for biological (or fossil) signs of life.

Psychics Claim of Evidence of Life on Mars Debunked

Website above: "Some remote viewers described tunnels and rooms under the domes [on Mars] and work going on inside them"

Feeling Drained by a Relationship? Cut those Psychic Cords!

Some psychics believe that there are cords of light (or some psychic energy) connecting them to their loved ones. But, they feel that they must cut those cords once love no longer exists, to save energy (to feel less drained).

 

[viole]

Clearly, that is up to you.
However, you've decided that you don't believe any of them?
You reject that G-d exists, who created and maintains the universe?

Yes, of course.

But suppose I want start believing. A sort of viole’s spiritual awakening. Which one should I worship? How do I know, for instance, that He likes to be worshipped? Or does It prefer to be called a She? How do I know? Shall I believe Muslims, the Hindus, modern pagans, Christians, who?

Knowing, by simple logic, that the vast majority of theists now and in the past simply delude, and deluded, themselves (since they cannot all be right), no matter how fervently they believe and love their God, totally undermines any personal argument they can bring in favor of their flavors of God. Things like miracles, prophecy fulfillment, answers to prayer, god talking to them, etc. are all shared by all those people believing in mutually excluding Gods. So, they cannot be taken as reliable evidence.

Therefore, they would have to present me objective evidence that their God is true, and not, say, Apollo. Or the great Juju at the bottom of the sea.

What sort of epistemology would you propose to reduce my odds of loving an imaginary being, just to find a way to quench my spiritual thirst?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

Some psychics see a white cord of light connecting them to their roving spirits. They feel that they can remote view distant locations.

Walks through a sunken dream: the CIA report on life on Mars

According to the website, above, the CIA sent their psychic on a remote view of Mars 1,000,000 years ago to talk to Martians (tall, thin people with strange clothes, in pyramidal dwellings who must wait following an environmental catastrophe). President George W. Bush continued to fund the psychic project (MKULTRA) that his father had funded, which had existed since the 1950's.

Currently, the US is sending another probe to Mars, searching for biological (or fossil) signs of life.

Psychics Claim of Evidence of Life on Mars Debunked

Website above: "Some remote viewers described tunnels and rooms under the domes [on Mars] and work going on inside them"

Feeling Drained by a Relationship? Cut those Psychic Cords!

Some psychics believe that there are cords of light (or some psychic energy) connecting them to their loved ones. But, they feel that they must cut those cords once love no longer exists, to save energy (to feel less drained).

This is true, but there is two worlds. Iblis magic and Imam Mahdi light, people use Imam Mahdi's light while denying him and mix darkness of Iblis with him. I believe Psychics have a lot powers, but not all of it is blessed energy and they are lead astray by spirits that believe they are guided but offer no proofs for their "guiding" role to humans.

Most devils believe they are guided and good and are not malicious.

This is what makes it the trial difficult. It's that they are not malicious except to who they feel they should punish.

For some reasons sorcerers, psychics, and spirits think I'm a troll in the unseen world and hate me. But inshallah God protects me against them and helps through Imam Mahdi against all their powers.

I don't know what Satan and his forces told them about me - they might be trying to prevent me from doing something. But we will see what happens.

 

[viole]

The light is connected to you and all things. Believe in the Lord of the light and discover what and who the light of God is.

The light? You mean electromagnetic radiation? Photons and such?

ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

The light? You mean electromagnetic radiation? Photons and such?

ciao

- viole

That is part of it, everything has light of Imam Mahdi (a) living in them. Even plants. Even food you eat can help you spiritually by his permission. But you know what I mean. If you wish to mock it go ahead. It's almost exactly as Star wars, except the darkness doesn't believe it is evil like in star wars, but actually believes they are good and noble in their teachings. It's as Quran says "alas they are the havoc causers in the earth but they do not perceive" such is the way of the sorcerers who killed Imam Hussain (a).

 

[Clara Tea]

1. Khomeini inherited Fiqh that was evil generations to generations. His job was not to reform Islam totally, but revive political movement. Some of that get's ugly because of the Islam we got passed on that is filled with wrong hadiths and wrong interpretation of Islam. Khomeini may God sanctify his secret, couldn't do everything, but what he did was noble . His Islam is corrupt, but he had good intentions. Just couldn't disconnect himself from what he inherited from scholars.

2. There was a terrorism crisis - people were suicide bombing. The punishment for participating in these groups after warning to disband, were harsh, maybe too harsh, maybe not. Evidence was sought but obviously some innocents paid the price too where evidence was hasty because of the terrorism. This was a crisis and there's never a real ideal way to deal with these situations. Calling these punishment in the name of apostasy was a mistake, really, it was not due apostasy but due to trying to stop terrorism and bombs everywhere.

3. God's plans take account Iblis and his forces plans, and there are back up plans, God wants us to avoid his back up plans that result in destruction of civilizations and cities who are oppressive. Anyways, future not being written does not mean God is clueless. It means we can choose improbable outcomes, to me, if this world was a probable outcome with all it's evils, then God should not have created it. It was improbable, but now we have to deal with what we have. God has back up plans, and we in some back up plans of back up plans. He never is not planning and everything falls in his will and one of his plans depending on our actions .He wants to avoid some of his plans and warns about it so we avoid them.

4. Apathy is a ticket to hell, and it's as Imam Mohammad Al-Jewad (9th Imam) (a) said "Three are partners, the oppressor, the supporter, and the one who (just) watches". We agree upon that. You have good light going in that regard.

5. Imam Mahdi will bring miracles like past Messengers brought, and also be supported by others like Jesus, Elijah, Enoch, Khidr, and they will perform miracles too and testify to him. It can't just be a human leader unless you are talking about the Sunni version, which, yes, does scare me too if people follow a leader claiming to the Mahdi without miracles. That can be set up by dark forces and Satan, and he can misguide us if this is the case.

You say that Khomeni's hadiths were wrong, and so were his interpretations of Islam.

Is there anyone with the correct hadiths and correct interpretations? Or, are all humans flawed and incapable of leading other humans?

You say that terrorist bombing created hasty decisions that killed some innocents. Shouldn't we all have spoken up about that (as France, Germany, and other nations did)? Apathy is wrong. We can't just let someone violate God's laws and say nothing about it.

According to Revelation (a chapter in the New Testament bible, from the psychic visions of Saint Thomas, the Divine) says that the US will pay the price for defying God and attacking Babylon, Iraq. Revelation 15 says that there will be seven plagues (hmm...seems familiar). God is supposed to cause economic disaster to the nation (called Whore of Babylon in Revelation 17:18) that attacked Babylon, Iraq. You mentioned that God wants us to avoid his back up plan that results in destruction of civilizations and cities who are oppressive. Apparently we are already working on God's plan B (back up plan). It is interesting that your bible and the Christian bible seem to be in complete agreement about this.

But, other religions, around the world, also are in agreement. The Mayan calendar ends very soon when the world ends, by their beliefs. The Chinese believe that the dragon will destroy the world. Both Bush presidencies began in the years of the dragon (12 years apart), so both Bush presidents are dragon presidents. Virtually ever culture of the world has a myth about the ending of the world, and they correspond completely with the events of the modern day. All cultures see the end of all life on earth, and somehow a dragon is the cause of it. Even the new testament mentions a dragon that made the first attack on Babylon, Iraq, and it is described in the bible as an evil demon from the lake of fire of hell. If so, it means that demons can escape from hell, and come to earth again.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God requires Love.

And what does God do if love in not given to him? Goes berserk? Punish the person and his descendants till third and fourth generation? Force someone to love? It is considered a crime in civilized society.

 

[Link]

Is there anyone with the correct hadiths and correct interpretations?

I will try to correct what I can, but whole Quran and true Sunnah all of it and every aspect of rights, truth and justice will only be by the Imam Mahdi (a).

 

[Aupmanyav]

What are the sources you are using to study his life? Just asking because there aren't many sources. If you can advice I will really appreciate it.

Wikipedia is a nice, well-referenced source.

 

[Link]

You say that Khomeni's hadiths were wrong, and so were his interpretations of Islam.

Is there anyone with the correct hadiths and correct interpretations? Or, are all humans flawed and incapable of leading other humans?

You say that terrorist bombing created hasty decisions that killed some innocents. Shouldn't we all have spoken up about that (as France, Germany, and other nations did)? Apathy is wrong. We can't just let someone violate God's laws and say nothing about it.

According to Revelation (a chapter in the New Testament bible, from the psychic visions of Saint Thomas, the Divine) says that the US will pay the price for defying God and attacking Babylon, Iraq. Revelation 15 says that there will be seven plagues (hmm...seems familiar). God is supposed to cause economic disaster to the nation (called Whore of Babylon in Revelation 17:18) that attacked Babylon, Iraq. You mentioned that God wants us to avoid his back up plan that results in destruction of civilizations and cities who are oppressive. Apparently we are already working on God's plan B (back up plan). It is interesting that your bible and the Christian bible seem to be in complete agreement about this.

But, other religions, around the world, also are in agreement. The Mayan calendar ends very soon when the world ends, by their beliefs. The Chinese believe that the dragon will destroy the world. Both Bush presidencies began in the years of the dragon (12 years apart), so both Bush presidents are dragon presidents. Virtually ever culture of the world has a myth about the ending of the world, and they correspond completely with the events of the modern day. All cultures see the end of all life on earth, and somehow a dragon is the cause of it. Even the new testament mentions a dragon that made the first attack on Babylon, Iraq, and it is described in the bible as an evil demon from the lake of fire of hell. If so, it means that demons can escape from hell, and come to earth again.

You should make a thread about this. It's interesting for me. Tag me in it, I will be there.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What sort of epistemology would you propose to reduce my odds of loving an imaginary being, just to find a way to quench my spiritual thirst?

I don't see it like that.

You start with the proposal "there are many religions and gods .. which one could be right? How do I know?"

If you suggest that it is reasonable that everything we see has no reason or cause, then you are not going to seriously consider your questions, imo.

However, if on the other hand, you acknowledge that the odds that our existence is all one big coincidence is very small, then you will be in a position to decide between the religions.

It then becomes more about the nature of G-d, rather than taking about "imaginary beings".

 

[Clara Tea]

The light? You mean electromagnetic radiation? Photons and such?

ciao

- viole

Psychics believe that light is not psychic energy. Light must go forward in time, and light is affected by gravity (and physicists know that light has gravity that can pull mass). Psychic energy can travel faster than light, and backward in time. This is how they are able to remote view in different places and at different times.

Light is constrained to travel at the speed of light in a vacuum and cannot exceed this speed across the metric of space. The metric of space is an imaginary grid (that we make up in our minds to conceptualize space). The metric of space (like a giant indestructible chess board) is expanding, and the expansion is accelerating (physicists think that the acceleration is due to dark energy, which they just proved exists). Distant parts of that metric are traveling away from each other faster than the speed of light, but many parts of the universe are standing still as space between them expands. Thus, there is no time dilation between these distant parts of the universe (so the Twin Paradox doesn't seem to apply to the expanding universe). Comoving observers are parts of the universe that have not moved since the big bang, and they are recognized by the isotropic (same in all directions) background radiation around them. The sun (and therefore the earth) are not comoving observers, having been part of a supernova explosion, many billions of years ago, which produced the heavy elements (such as iron which could only be produced in a supernova explosion), which blew the sun off course from its original position since the big bang.

If it is true that mass is trapped light (and many physicists disagree), mass should not be able to exceed the speed of light in a medium. Yet, it can and does. When it does, it creates a light boom (like a sonic boom when an airplane exceeds the speed of sound), and that light boom creates a shock wave, called Cerenkov radiation. It is that Cerenkov radiation that is detected when fast moving neutrinos pass through a medium (such as pure water). Though neutrino bombardments are very rare, detectors can detect the light from that bombardment, and this is the normal way that neutrinos are detected.

Psychic energy can penetrate steel buildings, so psychics can see inside steel safes. Steel buildings form a Faraday cage which blocks electromagnetic radiation (such as radio waves, infrared light, visible light, ultraviolet light, microwaves, x-rays, and gamma rays).

 

[Link]

@Clara Tea bless your heart, I doubt you will convince a gnostic atheist of that, but I appreciate your insights.

 

[Clara Tea]

I don't see it like that.

You start with the proposal "there are many religions and gods .. which one could be right? How do I know?"

If you suggest that it is reasonable that everything we see has no reason or cause, then you are not going to seriously consider your questions, imo.

However, if on the other hand, you acknowledge that the odds that our existence is all one big coincidence is very small, then you will be in a position to decide between the religions.

It then becomes more about the nature of G-d, rather than taking about "imaginary beings".

I suspect that no religion is right. Remember the Tower of Babel, where God made separate races and separate languages and moved people apart. I suspect that it was God's plan to get those races to overcome their differences (mature) so that they accept each other, learn from each other's beliefs, and form a religion from the combination of all beliefs. I suspect that each religion holds a vital piece of the jigsaw puzzle, and we cannot form a complete version of the bible without combining all.

 

[Clara Tea]

@Clara Tea bless your heart, I doubt you will convince a gnostic atheist of that, but I appreciate your insights.

I often marvel at your eloquent writing, and wonder how a person from another culture could gain such a magnificent command of the English language. You obviously are highly educated and committed to serving God. Even if people have different versions of what God is, they still have common ground.