I don't know where they go, but highest is for those who strive in God's way.
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Why do believers love God?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
I don't know where they go, but highest is for those who strive in God's way.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
..and as I have already said, you are not likely to get one
That's because you already have all the answers..
For you, this discourse is pretty meaningless.
And here is viole’s wager. What is better? Die as a child and go to heaven with certainty, even if it is at its lowest stage, or die old with the big risk of going to hell?
ciao
- viole
You seem to have run out of arguments. Correct?..and as I have already said, you are not likely to get one
That's because you already have all the answers..
For you, this discourse is pretty meaningless.
ciao
- viole
Why not just strive to enter paradise.
Because I cannot possibly believe in anything you believe. It is really outside my control. How could I possibly believe pigs being the cops for evil spirits, which would make places like Germany a place full of cop killers, and things that appear to be totally implausible, if not utter ridiculous, to me?
So, if you are right, then God is cruel, since it could have aborted me and now I would be in heaven risk free. Instead of giving me a brain that could be used to actually deny Him? Or Her?
ciao
- viole
It was offered in context of that post.
It was asked "What does love has to do when I am critically studying about someone's life?"
God requires Love.
So in more words, all the Messages from God say that we are look for the Light, look for the Love in all people and not find fault.
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
Bahá’u’lláh, The Arabic Hidden Words 5
Regards Tony
God allows all our choices. Those choices are the reward, or are the punishment, they reflect our willingness to embrace the Love given by God.
I see thay there is only one person to blame if we can not embrace a love for all humanity, and that is our own self.
Reward, punishment.
Good, Evil.
Love, hate.
That is this creation, a world choice between attributes and the lack of that attribute .
Regards Tony
Do you completely miss all the suffering in this world and only see the good? I guess I don't get it and I never will. I really should have been an atheist as my husband always says. I do not think like a believer at all.
Susan, this is why we are asked to study the life of Abdul'baha.
Abdul'baha was only too well aware of all the suffering, that is why Abdul'baha gave his entire life helping those that suffered most.
Abdul'baha became angry, sad and showed disappointment in regards to the suffering and injustice, yet when he met any person he would only look for the good in that person, he never looked for fault.
We can find that balance Susan, our anger of the injustice and action's of tyrants must unfold in is being true servants of humanity, if we do not serve others, help the Less fortunately, we are in this reality, really no better than the tyrants.
At the same time, Love also required that we do not allow injustices.
"Charcoal and Justice
Bahiyyih Khánum, the sister of 'Abdu'l-Baha recounts:
After our liberation from the barracks and the termination of this affair, my brother was able to mingle freely with the people of Akká, and he at once began to establish friendly relations with them. As illustrating the manner in which he gradually won their good-will, an incident occurs to me which I will relate. The believers needed fuel, but the people would not sell it to them. They regarded us as heretics and thought there was merit for them in harshness and unkindness towards us. Abbas Effendi obtained permission to send out of the city for charcoal, and a camel-load was brought back. The driver was stopped by a Christian merchant. 'This is better charcoal than I can get,' he said, and without more ceremony took it for himself - nor would he return the money paid for it.
This was reported to my brother. He went to the merchant's shop and stood in the door. He was not noticed. Then he entered and sat down by the door. The merchant continuing to transact his business with those who came and paying him no attention, he waited in silence for three hours. At length, when the others had left and no more came, the merchant said to him : 'Are you one of those prisoners here?' Abbas Effendi assenting, he continued: 'What have you done that you are imprisoned?'
'Since you ask me,' replied Abbas Effendi, 'I will tell you. We have done nothing. We are persecuted as Christ was persecuted.'
'What do you know of Christ?' said the merchant.
My brother replied in such a manner that the merchant perceived that he was not ignorant of Christ and the Christian Bible. He then began to question him about the Bible and was interested in his replies, as my brother gave him explanations which he had never before heard.
Next he invited my brother to a seat beside him and continued the conversation for two hours. At its conclusion he seemed much pleased, and said: 'The coal is gone, - I cannot return you that, but here is the money.' He then escorted my brother to the door and down into the street, treating him with the greatest respect. Since that time he and Abbas Effendi have been fast friends, and the two families also." - Myron Henry Phelps and Bahiyyih Khánum, Life and Teachings of Abbas Effendi, p. 77-79
Regards Tony
The God of the Bible did Not create a world of suffering... God made everything Very Good ! Genesis chapter One.
Yes, God at this time allows evil people to cause trouble for upright people.
It was Satan I find that started the trouble as found in the account at Job 2:4-5.
Satan challenges all of us that 'Touch our flesh....' ( loose physical health /suffering ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
So, it is Not through fate or any predestination but through the issue raised by Satan.
The passing of time was needed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Then, Earth and its righteous people will be as God originally intended: Healthy and Happy - Isaiah 35th chapter
I find children can go with the parents 1 Corinthians 7:14.
Parents are responsible for > minor children.
Only dedicated people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 (saints/holy ones) have a 'heavenly future'.
The majority of mankind to have an 'earthly future', an earthly resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Or, as Psalms 37:9-11 says humble or 'meek people to inherit the Earth' which ties in nicely with Jesus' promise found at Matthew 5:5.
In the Bible I find minor children are Not called to Heaven.
Only dedicated people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 are called to heavenly life. They are saints/holy ones.
Parents are responsible for > minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14
Dead people go to biblical hell (the grave) Not because of risk but because of sinning.
Biblical hell is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious sleeping dead.
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, on Resurrection Day ( meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
This Happy Day is when parents will be re-united with their resurrected children
To me to 'strive to enter paradise ' is in connection to what Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5.
Humble or meek people will inherit the Earth as also written at Psalms 37:9-11,29.
Inherit a beautiful paradisical Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
A beautiful edenic Earth as Eden was a small sample to be widened out until covering the whole Earth.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
No. No they aren’t. Love is stronger than fear, love is stronger than hate. Love has the power to heal all harms; the world is built on that.
I find Heaven is God's home 1 Kings 8:39 home for God and angelic life.
Whereas, Earth is for non-angelic life aka human/physical life.
As to why we (people) need a Heaven is because God calls some people to Heaven is to govern with Jesus.
To govern with Jesus in Heaven for a thousand years.- Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10.
Govern over Earth for humble or meek people who will inherit the Earth as promised at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
It's d for me, because I don't love God. As a matter of fact, I strongly disagree with the belief in a loving God, and I think the belief in a merciful heavenly father is irrational, and it perpetuates a false hope in people. Personally speaking, I tried to believe in a loving caring God for more than 35 years of my life, and this is in despite of the traumatic and painful experiences I endured from being abused at home, and perpetually bullied in school. I've struggled to hold onto the false hope of a loving God for the majority of my adulthood too, but it became more difficult for me as I grew older to keep ignoring the nagging feeling that my belief and faith in a loving merciful God, and all the traumatic experiences and painful memories from my childhood, were not compatible. And that's not to mention, genuinely contemplating all the suffering, death, and violence in the world and throughout human history.
About a year ago now, I decided it was time that I was honest with myself and I needed to face the painful truth that this "loving God" did not protect me from years of physical, emotional, and other abuse. I was also tired of pretending to be something that I knew I was not, and I had to accept the fact that I could no longer call myself a Christian. It was a painful time of personal reflection for me, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone else. I'm still shaken by its effects today. At some point during my journey of personal reflection, I finally came to a conclusion that God is either a sadistic bloodthirsty tyrannical monster, who takes pleasure in causing human suffering, and then sitting back to happily watch the total chaos he creates (despite the many verses in the Bible depicting his loving and merciful nature, contrary to Isaiah 45:7) or God simply doesn't exist, and humans are alone in this world, and always have been. Hence, the point of calling myself an agnostic. I refer to it as being in "spiritual limbo," and I'm honestly okay with it.
In conclusion, there's something else I'd like to say before I post my reply, and that's my disclaimer, so to speak.
If you're a Christian and reading my post, I'm asking you, in advance, not to preach at me and try to convince me to believe that "God loves me," and wants what's best for me. I was a Christian for more than thirty years, so I know how the game is played, and the usual "the carrot and the stick" proselytizing tactics won't work on me. I'm only saying this because I know Christians will either try to lure me back in (the carrot) or try to shame me and even threaten me with hell fire (the stick) if I don't comply. In other words, I'm not buying what you have to sell. I've been there, done that, so please don't waste your time. FWIW, I'm not trying to be rude to anyone. It's just the way I feel at this point in life. I hope the Christians who read this will respect my request to be left alone.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Many other things, things that believers are too blind to see.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks. You don't know how much that means to me.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The logical conclusion is that some people have misconceptions about the existing deity so some people are wrong and some people are right.