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Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?

Is God to blame? Bad Karma? Is there a way to escape suffering and evil?


This question was raised in a recent Watchtower magazine.


Watchtower Magazine, July2014


So what do you think?


If there is an almighty God, why does he not protect good people from harm?


The Bible identifies three root causes of human suffering. Do you know what they are?
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
"Bad" and "good" are human judgement calls. God is cosmically neutral.

If good and bad are concepts that are governed merely by human judgment, then they are concepts with which we were created.
God's word clearly tells us to "love what is good and hate what is bad". (Amos 5:15) Its a bit difficult to do that if we don't understand the difference?

"God is cosmically neutral"? I don't recall that term being used in the Bible. What is it supposed to mean anyhow? That sounds more like a human judgment call.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
If good and bad are concepts that are governed merely by human judgment, then they are concepts with which we were created.
God's word clearly tells us to "love what is good and hate what is bad". (Amos 5:15) Its a bit difficult to do that if we don't understand the difference?

"God is cosmically neutral"? I don't recall that term being used in the Bible. What is it supposed to mean anyhow? That sounds more like a human judgment call.

The very verse you quote neither describes nor proscribes what is "good" and what is "bad". It's left up to the individual. Check out Isaiah 45:7.

If you accept God as the creator of everything then why would you expect God to have to make a judgement call at all? Sorta begs the question, don't you think?
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
The very verse you quote neither describes nor proscribes what is "good" and what is "bad". It's left up to the individual. Check out Isaiah 45:7.

The various Bible writers, especially Moses, recorded a detailed law outlining what God considered "good" and "bad". He was instructed to make that law known to his people. How was it possible to judge according to the law, if there was no clear definition? We teach our own children to discern the difference, do we not? Is God an absent or irresponsible parent?

Isa 45:7 has been used by others to prove a point. But if you read the preceding verses, you will see that it is directed to Cyrus, the king of Medio-Persia as one used by God to restore Israel to their homeland after their 70 year captivity in Babylon.
He told Cyrus, "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. There is no God except me. I will strengthen you, although you did not know me, In order that people may know From the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides me. I am Jehovah, and there is no one else." (Isa 45:5, 6)

To this one he was affirming his sovereignty over all the earth, letting a pagan king know that he can bring light to those who seek it and calamity to those who seek to defeat his purpose. Babylon was a very powerful nation, confident of its invulnerability, but in one night, the armies of Medo-Persia under Cyrus, took the city in exactly the way that God had foretold.

Cyrus the Great — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Your argument is not supported by this passage at all.

If you accept God as the creator of everything then why would you expect God to have to make a judgement call at all? Sorta begs the question, don't you think?

Not at all, when you consider that the whole of creation is now in a state of alienation from its Creator. Nothing in the world at present is as God intended for it to be. Humans were not at first given a knowledge of evil. In order to gain that knowledge, man suffered the death penalty. It was the only activity in Eden that resulted in death. If it was serious enough to warrant the death penalty, what was the benefit of attaining it? Has man been better off with this knowledge of evil?
We instinctively know that this is not true. Whenever we see injustice, or hate, or violence, or inhumanity, or pollution, or filth, we recoil because we know it shouldn't happen. When tragedies strike, we groan inside ourselves because we are not equipped to deal with them, either man made or 'natural'.

Death is all humanity has ever experienced, yet it is as foreign to our psyche as it ever was. Death was not supposed to happen to us like it does to animals. Humans, made in God's image, have no capacity to deal with it. We grieve, sometimes very deeply, even when we hold a belief in a better life after death. If death was supposed to happen, then we would be 'programmed' for it like the rest of creation who experience the circle of life. We have no program for death.

Understanding that everything in this world is governed by God's adversary, we can understand why Jesus came to "break up the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8) By him doing that, we get back what Adam lost for his children in Eden. i.e. everlasting life in paradise on earth. (Gen 3:22-24)

Bad things happen to good people because all humanity is under the devil's world rulership.....it was "delivered" to him by God in order for him to prove his claims to be a better god and ruler (Luke 4:5, 6).....but not for much longer, as we see "the last days" of this present age drawing to a close. (2 Tim 3:1-5)
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
The various Bible writers, especially Moses, recorded a detailed law outlining what God considered "good" and "bad". He was instructed to make that law known to his people. How was it possible to judge according to the law, if there was no clear definition? We teach our own children to discern the difference, do we not? Is God an absent or irresponsible parent?

Isa 45:7 has been used by others to prove a point. But if you read the preceding verses, you will see that it is directed to Cyrus, the king of Medio-Persia as one used by God to restore Israel to their homeland after their 70 year captivity in Babylon.
He told Cyrus, "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. There is no God except me. I will strengthen you, although you did not know me, In order that people may know From the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides me. I am Jehovah, and there is no one else." (Isa 45:5, 6)

To this one he was affirming his sovereignty over all the earth, letting a pagan king know that he can bring light to those who seek it and calamity to those who seek to defeat his purpose. Babylon was a very powerful nation, confident of its invulnerability, but in one night, the armies of Medo-Persia under Cyrus, took the city in exactly the way that God had foretold.

Cyrus the Great — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Your argument is not supported by this passage at all.



Not at all, when you consider that the whole of creation is now in a state of alienation from its Creator. Nothing in the world at present is as God intended for it to be. Humans were not at first given a knowledge of evil. In order to gain that knowledge, man suffered the death penalty. It was the only activity in Eden that resulted in death. If it was serious enough to warrant the death penalty, what was the benefit of attaining it? Has man been better off with this knowledge of evil?
We instinctively know that this is not true. Whenever we see injustice, or hate, or violence, or inhumanity, or pollution, or filth, we recoil because we know it shouldn't happen. When tragedies strike, we groan inside ourselves because we are not equipped to deal with them, either man made or 'natural'.

Death is all humanity has ever experienced, yet it is as foreign to our psyche as it ever was. Death was not supposed to happen to us like it does to animals. Humans, made in God's image, have no capacity to deal with it. We grieve, sometimes very deeply, even when we hold a belief in a better life after death. If death was supposed to happen, then we would be 'programmed' for it like the rest of creation who experience the circle of life. We have no program for death.

Understanding that everything in this world is governed by God's adversary, we can understand why Jesus came to "break up the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8) By him doing that, we get back what Adam lost for his children in Eden. i.e. everlasting life in paradise on earth. (Gen 3:22-24)

Bad things happen to good people because all humanity is under the devil's world rulership.....it was "delivered" to him by God in order for him to prove his claims to be a better god and ruler (Luke 4:5, 6).....but not for much longer, as we see "the last days" of this present age drawing to a close. (2 Tim 3:1-5)
No offense but your entire argument shows that everyone has to find their own truth; and usually they need the truth to conform to their own belief.
 

ametist

Active Member
I dont think there is such a thing but just that: when bad things happen to good people we care much more than we do when bad things happen to bad people. :)
We dont want any harm for good people..especially when that good person is ourselves. :)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
I dont think there is such a thing but just that: when bad things happen to good people we care much more than we do when bad things happen to bad people. :)

It is true that when bad things happen to incorrigibly bad people we feel that justice has somehow been served to that one if calamity befalls them. Who doesn't rejoice when the bad guy gets his comeuppance in a movie?

Sometimes when I hear that violent gang members have shot and killed others of their kind, it is not really sad news, even though I would not wish harm to anyone, the loss of these people to the world is not really a tragedy compared with the harm they cause to others.

But when the innocent suffer and someone evil is responsible, we want to see justice done. But how many thumb their noses and continue to get away with harming innocent victims or their children and partners with acts of violence? How many are behind bars for serious violent crimes, who, once they are released, will continue on as before, never learning any lessons, but only how to become more hardened criminals than what they were before?

When it comes the judgment time, God's justice will be served in a permanent way. No excuses will be accepted because judgment will be based on what is in a person's heart. Only God can know that.

The sins of this life will be accounted for unless there is genuine repentance now.

We dont want any harm for good people..especially when that good person is ourselves. :)

True. So how does God figure into this topic for you? Why do you believe that God allows bad things to happen to good people?
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I dont think there is such a thing but just that: when bad things happen to good people we care much more than we do when bad things happen to bad people. :)
We dont want any harm for good people..especially when that good person is ourselves. :)



Many bring their own woes upon themselves--If one applys bible councils as what displeases God, Many of peoples problems wouldn't exist. In fact a single teaching from Jesus, if taught as it should be, but is never taught in a building called a church-could have saved millions of lives the last 120 years or so. (From starvation)--this = the permanent fix. Not just a couple of meals, they still need thousands of more meals as well.

Matt 6:33--- Therefore, keep on seeking first the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added ( sustenance, covering, spirituality-Matt 6)--A promise from Jesus that the Father would provide these things if need be, if a person lived daily to do those two things first. But Few know this truth. The world is in an illusion of satans.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The simple answer: It is God's will. We are creations; we can't possibly contain infinite knowledge in our finite structures. Even when the Holy Spirit descends onto someone, it does not create a perfect, all knowing person. The Spirit strives with, and against the flesh.

Matthew 26

`My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou.'

NOTICE THE CHANGE.. Jesus prays the above first, before praying thus:

`My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;'
 
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Big_TJ

Active Member
Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?

Is God to blame? Bad Karma? Is there a way to escape suffering and evil?


This question was raised in a recent Watchtower magazine.


Watchtower Magazine, July2014


So what do you think?




If there is an almighty God, why does he not protect good people from harm?


The Bible identifies three root causes of human suffering. Do you know what they are?

JayJayDee, what is your theory of why did such a horrible thing happened to Mary Jane Baker-Longo?

Also, why didn't Jehovah alert either her or any of the elders in the JW congregation about the horrible thing that would have happened?
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
JayJayDee, what is your theory of why did such a horrible thing happened to Mary Jane Baker-Longo?

Also, why didn't Jehovah alert either her or any of the elders in the JW congregation about the horrible thing that would have happened?

If we were to take every vile act that humans have perpetrated on one another, we could ask the same question about all of them.

When God gave control of the world over to the devil, (Luke 4:5-8) it was because he knew he could undo every wicked deed. Nothing that has transpired in this world under the devil's influence, will have permanent consequences. Jesus came to undo the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

Satan's rule has seen the most heinous acts visited upon countless innocent victims.
If God had intervened, and softened the actions or removed the consequences then he would have been supporting satan's side of the issue. The devil had basically said that man was better off without God, so lessening the impact would not have proven that the devil's rulership was as bad as it truly is.

No one has suffered any trial or evil act that cannot be reversed by God.

Just as God raised His own son from an awful death after being scourged and tortured by agents of satan, so he will give life back to those who have had it snatched away from them in this system. (John 5:28, 29)

Isaiah foretold....

"For the former distresses will be forgotten; They will be concealed from my eyes. For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart." (Isa 65:16-18)

This is God's promise. We trust that he knows what he is doing and that the outcome will vindicate his rightful sovereignty and clear his name of all reproach.

The precedents set by God's permission of wickedness and suffering due to the rebellion that began in Eden, will never be allowed to happen again. By permitting all that has transpired, in what has seemed like a long time in earth years, the timeless God who lives in a spiritual realm, has made the future a safe and secure place for all of His faithful worshippers for all eternity to come.

Bad things happen to good people because satan is the ruler of this world...but not for much longer. Once the coming kingdom brings God's rulership back to the earth, everything will be brought back to the way it should have been at the start. Loved ones lost will be returned to us and the paradise conditions that Adam lost for his children will be given back to us. (Rev 21:2-5)

This is what Jesus taught us to pray for...."Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"
 
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Big_TJ

Active Member
If we were to take every vile act that humans have perpetrated on one another, we could ask the same question about all of them.

When God gave control of the world over to the devil, (Luke 4:5-8) it was because he knew he could undo every wicket deed. Nothing that has transpired in this world under the devil's influence, will have permanent consequences. Jesus came to undo the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

Satan's rule has seen the most heinous acts visited upon countless innocent victims.
If God had intervened, and softened the actions or removed the consequences then he would have been supporting satan's side of the issue. The devil had basically said that man was better off without God, so lessening the impact would not have proven that the devil's rulership was as bad as it truly is.

No one has suffered any trial or evil act that cannot be reversed by God.

Just as God raised His own son from an awful death after being scourged and tortured by agents of satan, so he will give life back to those who have had it snatched away from them in this system. (John 5:28, 29)

Isaiah foretold....

"For the former distresses will be forgotten; They will be concealed from my eyes. For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart." (Isa 65:16-18)

This is God's promise. We trust that he knows what he is doing and that the outcome will vindicate his rightful sovereignty and clear his name of all reproach.

The precedents set by God's permission of wickedness and suffering due to the rebellion that began in Eden, will never be allowed to happen again. By permitting all that has transpired, in what has seemed like a long time in earth years, the timeless God who lives in a spiritual realm, has made the future a safe and secure place for all of His faithful worshippers for all eternity to come.

Bad things happen to good people because satan is the ruler of this world...but not for much longer. Once the coming kingdom brings God's rulership back to the earth, everything will be brought back to the way it should have been at the start. Loved ones lost will be returned to us and the paradise conditions that Adam lost for his children will be given back to us. (Rev 21:2-5)

This is what Jesus taught us to pray for...."Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

That was a nice sermon, but I couldnt find an answer to my question in it. Wouldyou mind providing an answer to the two specific questions please?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Agreed...what about the second question?

This also raised another question: what should humans take responsible for and what should we blame the Satan for?

people are responsible for their own actions. They have free will to act or to refrain from acting.

If people were truly submitting to God, then they wouldn't commit such crimes because they would listen to their conscience and know that it is wrong and not do it.

We live in a world where man has been made independent of God and therefore he does not intervene in the independent behaviour of man. We can blame Satan for that independence.
 

Big_TJ

Active Member
people are responsible for their own actions. They have free will to act or to refrain from acting.

If people were truly submitting to God, then they wouldn't commit such crimes because they would listen to their conscience and know that it is wrong and not do it.

We live in a world where man has been made independent of God and therefore he does not intervene in the independent behaviour of man. We can blame Satan for that independence.

And that's my point..Almost ALL of Maryjane's decisions suggest that she was doing the right thing and walking the straight and narrow path. Why did Jehovah allow such horrible thing to happen to her?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
And that's my point..Almost ALL of Maryjane's decisions suggest that she was doing the right thing and walking the straight and narrow path. Why did Jehovah allow such horrible thing to happen to her?

“The swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all.”
Ecclesiastes 9:11

Thats the world we live in. It is not under Gods control...it is independent and full of people who choose to bring harm to others.

Jehovah has never interfered with mans free will even when it comes against those he loves. But he does promise to restore all to life and undo all the injustice that has ever been perpetrated against everyone.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
And that's my point..Almost ALL of Maryjane's decisions suggest that she was doing the right thing and walking the straight and narrow path. Why did Jehovah allow such horrible thing to happen to her?

Since we are not privy to what goes on behind the scenes in any given situation, we can only take Job's example and imagine if it was satan making an example of her and God allowing her or her family to prove their loyalty under test. Nothing the devil does is permanent, so God can allow him to go to extremes if he deems it necessary.

The rulership of this world was "delivered" over to satan for a good reason. (Luke 4:5-8)

In any event, it is satan who attacks people today by means of his minions; the ones who love violence and bloodshed. He has them feeding on a steady diet of violent entertainment so graphic, that it turns your stomach, yet those who are exposed to it day in and day out become immune.....totally desensitized to all of it. Life is cheap and soon all of those who have sided with the devil will be gone. (Psalm 37:9-11, 29)

TJ said:
JayJayDee, what is your theory of why did such a horrible thing happened to Mary Jane Baker-Longo?
Being a victim in satan's world is no respecter of anyone. Job was the most righteous man in existence yet God permitted extreme suffering to be heaped upon him and his poor wife, who also lost all 10 of her children. In the resurrection, Job's family will be reunited along with the other 10 children that God blessed him with....and they will have forever to enjoy their lives without suffering or pain. (Rev 21:2-5)

TJ said:
Also, why didn't Jehovah alert either her or any of the elders in the JW congregation about the horrible thing that would have happened?
Probably for the same reason he did not alert Job. If it was a test, God would not interfere with the outcome. All he can do is reward the faithful, whom he will bless with a peaceful and happy life in paradise free from wickedness and sin for the rest of eternity. The former things will not be remembered. It will be like they never happened, yet precedents are created that will last forever. The end justifies the means.

Everything and everyone we have lost will be returned to us. God could not be fairer than that.
 
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