Why do Americans Hate Democracy?

[Draka]

Sonofason,
Perceptions of witnesses. Whether something even gets reported, what people think they see, are willing to acknowledge. It comes into play. It all brings doubt to "statistics". Racism is alive and well in this country. "Color" colors the way people view each other, unfortunately. How others are perceived, treated, stereotyped, everything. If you think that's not the case then you have a lot of learning to do. I'll provide a sampling, but there's a lot more out there and I encourage you look for yourself.
[youtube]8ABRlWybBqM[/youtube]
[youtube]9odAuzz6kB0[/youtube]
[youtube]QI2PB5BPTbs[/youtube]
[youtube]8PPDaT4H5ho[/youtube]
And if this doesn't affect you on some emotional level and teach you something about perception, how it can be learned at even a young age, I suggest that there may be something seriously wrong with your entire outlook on life.
[youtube]tkpUyB2xgTM[/youtube]

 

[Maldini]

I'm not sure if the OP's statement is entirely true, but I personally think Democracy, especially if done right, is gonna contain more work, more responsibility anymore difficulty for people.

It basically means instead of sitting on your *** waiting for someone to rule over you, you take matters in your hand.

Most Americans do confuse democracy with efficiency though. Some of them think because US is a democracy then every single thing gets done in the best possible way.

You could be a democracy and end up way worse than a dictatorship.

 

[Sonofason]

Sonofason,
Perceptions of witnesses. Whether something even gets reported, what people think they see, are willing to acknowledge. It comes into play. It all brings doubt to "statistics". Racism is alive and well in this country. "Color" colors the way people view each other, unfortunately. How others are perceived, treated, stereotyped, everything. If you think that's not the case then you have a lot of learning to do. I'll provide a sampling, but there's a lot more out there and I encourage you look for yourself.
[youtube]8ABRlWybBqM[/youtube]
[youtube]9odAuzz6kB0[/youtube]
[youtube]QI2PB5BPTbs[/youtube]
[youtube]8PPDaT4H5ho[/youtube]
And if this doesn't affect you on some emotional level and teach you something about perception, how it can be learned at even a young age, I suggest that there may be something seriously wrong with your entire outlook on life.
[youtube]tkpUyB2xgTM[/youtube]

Remember where we started?

You had said,

You have knowledge of Gods law and the free will to follow it. Society doesn't change that. Your failures are your own.

But now you are suggesting otherwise, that one's failures may be directly related to society.

I had responded in post 32

"Interesting.
White people make up about 80% of the American population, according to the United States Census. And black people account for about 13%. Yet, according to the same FBI table, blacks committed 28.4% of the crimes and whites 69.2%."
Do Blacks Really Commit the Most Crimes? | TALKBACK4Teens

More important than these statistics, that I provided, the ones that you have been vehemently refuting, thus sidetracking the issue,
I had also said:

"According to your logic, black people must be born more depraved than white people because a black person is more apt to commit a crime than a white person. Certainly, you wouldn't blame society for this, because as you say, your failures are your own."

Notice that it was your logic I was referring to here, not mine. Please note the sarcasm in my final statement quoted above.

Your comment focused on refuting the statistics which are true. I was trying to show you that society is very much responsible for those statistics. We are on the same side here friend, but because I am a believer, you can't see it.

 

[Draka]

Oh geez. When I said that you have knowledge of "God's law" and your failures are your own...I was speaking directly to you, to your supposed inability to live by your values and morals in this country. I was not holding society accountable to follow your god's supposed instructions in the first place. You seemed to want to do that. This started with you seeming to want a country following a more theocratic rule.

And, just look at the last statement you quoted of your own there. You still think a black person is more apt to commit a crime than a white person. Those were your words. "A black person is more apt to commit a crime than a white person". That is the EXACT stereotype I am referring to. That is precisely WHY people are overlooking whites committing crimes and are looking for blacks to commit crimes, even when they aren't. They get watched and followed while shopping, stopped and frisked, pulled over while driving sometimes with NO cause. Other than, being black of course. All because of your precise attitude.

 

[Sonofason]

Oh geez. When I said that you have knowledge of "God's law" and your failures are your own...I was speaking directly to you, to your supposed inability to live by your values and morals in this country. I was not holding society accountable to follow your god's supposed instructions in the first place. You seemed to want to do that. This started with you seeming to want a country following a more theocratic rule.

And, just look at the last statement you quoted of your own there. You still think a black person is more apt to commit a crime than a white person. Those were your words. "A black person is more apt to commit a crime than a white person". That is the EXACT stereotype I am referring to. That is precisely WHY people are overlooking whites committing crimes and are looking for blacks to commit crimes, even when they aren't. They get watched and followed while shopping, stopped and frisked, pulled over while driving sometimes with NO cause. Other than, being black of course. All because of your precise attitude.

Well yes, I do believe that. You see, I believe that crime is often directly related to the poverty rate. And since it is a fact that the poverty rate for blacks is 2-3 times higher than it is for whites, they tend to commit more crime. While I don't think that poverty is a very good excuse for committing violent crimes, it is nevertheless a factor affecting crime rates in America.

Now, I am not suggesting that the reason they commit more crimes is because they are black. But then the fact remains, they are black. Now, I have not addressed the reasons why blacks have such higher poverty rates. I will assume that this is at least partly a result of racism and discrimination.

Now, the reason they are being discriminated against is, well I assume, is because they are black. And so then the reason that they have a higher rate of poverty, I must assume, is because they are black. And so then the reason that they have a higher rate of crime is, again, because they are black.

There is no reason for black people not to rise above the statistics and stop committing crime. Then racism will disappear, at least, I should hope so.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

 

[dust1n]

Please provide your evidence that blacks do not commit more crime. The statistics tell a different story. Show the evidence to support your claim that the reason blacks appear to commit more crime is simply because they get arrested more.

Perhaps they get arrested more because they commit more crime.

Thinking these facts are a result of racism is in my opinion showing a significant mental deficit. But your claim does warrant evidential support.

In 1986, the U.S. Congress passed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which, amongst other things, created a 100 to 1 sentencing disparity for crack vs. powder cocaine possession, which some people consider to be a racist law which discriminates against minorities,[1][2][3] who are more likely to use crack than powder cocaine. People convicted in federal court of possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine will receive a minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years in federal prison. On the other hand, possession of 500 grams of powder cocaine carries the same sentence.[1][2] Some other authors, however, have pointed out that the Congressional Black Caucus backed the law, which they say implies that the law cannot be racist.[4][5][6]

Crime statistics show that in 1999 in the United States blacks were far more likely to be targeted by law enforcement for drug crimes, and received much stiffer penalties and sentences than whites.[7]

A 2013 study by the American Civil Liberties Union determined that a black person in the United States was 3.73 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than a white person, even though both races have similar rates of marijuana use.[8] Iowa had the highest racial disparity of the fifty states.[9] Black people in Iowa were arrested for marijuana possession at a rate 8.4 times higher than white people.[9]

In 1998 there were wide racial disparities in arrests, prosecutions, sentencing and deaths. African-Americans, who only comprised 13% of regular drug users, made up for 35% of drug arrests, 55% of convictions, and 74% of people sent to prison for drug possession crimes.[1] Nationwide African-Americans were sent to state prisons for drug offenses 13 times more often than white men,[10] even though they only comprise 13% of regular drug users.[1]

In the late 1990s, black and white women had similar levels of drug use during pregnancy. In spite of this, black women were 10 times as likely as white women to be reported to a child welfare agency for prenatal drug use.[11]

Race and the War on Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sonofason]

In 1986, the U.S. Congress passed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which, amongst other things, created a 100 to 1 sentencing disparity for crack vs. powder cocaine possession, which some people consider to be a racist law which discriminates against minorities,[1][2][3] who are more likely to use crack than powder cocaine. People convicted in federal court of possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine will receive a minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years in federal prison. On the other hand, possession of 500 grams of powder cocaine carries the same sentence.[1][2] Some other authors, however, have pointed out that the Congressional Black Caucus backed the law, which they say implies that the law cannot be racist.[4][5][6]

Crime statistics show that in 1999 in the United States blacks were far more likely to be targeted by law enforcement for drug crimes, and received much stiffer penalties and sentences than whites.[7]

A 2013 study by the American Civil Liberties Union determined that a black person in the United States was 3.73 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than a white person, even though both races have similar rates of marijuana use.[8] Iowa had the highest racial disparity of the fifty states.[9] Black people in Iowa were arrested for marijuana possession at a rate 8.4 times higher than white people.[9]

In 1998 there were wide racial disparities in arrests, prosecutions, sentencing and deaths. African-Americans, who only comprised 13% of regular drug users, made up for 35% of drug arrests, 55% of convictions, and 74% of people sent to prison for drug possession crimes.[1] Nationwide African-Americans were sent to state prisons for drug offenses 13 times more often than white men,[10] even though they only comprise 13% of regular drug users.[1]

In the late 1990s, black and white women had similar levels of drug use during pregnancy. In spite of this, black women were 10 times as likely as white women to be reported to a child welfare agency for prenatal drug use.[11]

Race and the War on Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry for that. It seems to me that poor drug addicts are easier to spot than a rich ones. It's a shame. My advice to everyone is stop using drugs. They benefit no one. Stop committing crimes, and you will be blessed.

 

[Viker]

Americans don't hate democracy, they often fail at understanding democracy.

 

[Draka]

Well yes, I do believe that. You see, I believe that crime is often directly related to the poverty rate. And since it is a fact that the poverty rate for blacks is 2-3 times higher than it is for whites, they tend to commit more crime. While I don't think that poverty is a very good excuse for committing violent crimes, it is nevertheless a factor affecting crime rates in America.

Now, I am not suggesting that the reason they commit more crimes is because they are black. But then the fact remains, they are black. Now, I have not addressed the reasons why blacks have such higher poverty rates. I will assume that this is at least partly a result of racism and discrimination.

Now, the reason they are being discriminated against is, well I assume, is because they are black. And so then the reason that they have a higher rate of poverty, I must assume, is because they are black. And so then the reason that they have a higher rate of crime is, again, because they are black.

There is no reason for black people not to rise above the statistics and stop committing crime. Then racism will disappear, at least, I should hope so.

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Setting aside the round and round that is the rest of this post, let me just address this part which I think needs addressed the strongest:

Now, I have not addressed the reasons why blacks have such higher poverty rates. I will assume that this is at least partly a result of racism and discrimination.

This is not "partly" a result of racism and discrimination, this is greatly a result of racism and discrimination. As long as the stereotype mindset remains in our culture it is harder and harder for those in such situations to climb out of them. Not to say it cannot be done, but it is much harder than it is for a "poor white person" or the like. Not to mention, that even those that do make it out of such conditions are still treated as if they still live in them. Even those who never lived in such conditions are treated as criminals, merely because of their skin tone. Not too long ago a black Hollywood producer, coming from a pre-Emmy party, was accosted by police because he "fit the description of a bank robber". The description? Dark skin and bald. Man sat in police station for hours before police would listen to his lawyer and go over bank footage which proved he was not the robber because they were so sure they had their man. Why, because...he was black and bald and in this very nice area. How dare he? If the robber was white with a certain hairstyle would they have brought in every white guy with that hairstyle and consider "job done" or do you think other factors would be looked at?

Also, I didn't post them, because I didn't want to inundate the thread with so many videos, but in my little delve to get videos for you some I had to decide between included ones which showed that blacks living in ghetto/poor areas were not as "violent" as made out. Just because someone is poor does not mean they are violent or a criminal. Again, something the media/Hollywood exaggerates.

 

[Sonofason]

Setting aside the round and round that is the rest of this post, let me just address this part which I think needs addressed the strongest:


This is not "partly" a result of racism and discrimination, this is greatly a result of racism and discrimination. As long as the stereotype mindset remains in our culture it is harder and harder for those in such situations to climb out of them. Not to say it cannot be done, but it is much harder than it is for a "poor white person" or the like. Not to mention, that even those that do make it out of such conditions are still treated as if they still live in them. Even those who never lived in such conditions are treated as criminals, merely because of their skin tone. Not too long ago a black Hollywood producer, coming from a pre-Emmy party, was accosted by police because he "fit the description of a bank robber". The description? Dark skin and bald. Man sat in police station for hours before police would listen to his lawyer and go over bank footage which proved he was not the robber because they were so sure they had their man. Why, because...he was black and bald and in this very nice area. How dare he? If the robber was white with a certain hairstyle would they have brought in every white guy with that hairstyle and consider "job done" or do you think other factors would be looked at?

Also, I didn't post them, because I didn't want to inundate the thread with so many videos, but in my little delve to get videos for you some I had to decide between included ones which showed that blacks living in ghetto/poor areas were not as "violent" as made out. Just because someone is poor does not mean they are violent or a criminal. Again, something the media/Hollywood exaggerates.

The numbers tell a story. It isn't going to be easy. So long as blacks commit more crime, they will be perceived as committing more crimes. Let them reverse the trend. Let them rise above the past. Let them be role models for the world. Let God's righteousness reign in the hearts of all men.

 

[Draka]

The numbers tell a story. It isn't going to be easy. So long as blacks commit more crime, they will be perceived as committing more crimes. Let them reverse the trend. Let them rise above the past. Let them be role models for the world. Let God's righteousness reign in the hearts of all men.

No matter how many times I tell you the numbers aren't accurate because the reason they are arrested more is because they are perceived to commit more crimes due to racism you just don't seem to get it. How are they to reverse a "trend" they aren't the ones responsible for? It is, far more often than not, whites that are responsible for the "trend". It is whites that overlook whites committing crimes yet focus on that "suspicious" black guy minding his own business yet could strike at any given moment. It is the white clerk that follows the black shopper around the store ready to accuse them of shoplifting when they see them pickup something that looks "too expensive" for them. It is white neighbor who calls the cops on the black guy "breaking into" his own home. It is the white lady who clutches her purse to her when she dares to pass the black guy on the sidewalk.

How are black people suppose to "reverse a trend" when white people propagate it?

Want the "trend" to end? Stop insisting that "blacks commit more crimes" and treat all black people as you would anyone else and insist everyone else do the same. Color shouldn't mean a thing, it is the person that matters.

 

[sun rise]

Good thing we are well armed sheep...

But is America still about liberty? That's the real question.

Well armed - you mean those cute little hooves when the wolves are hunting in a very large and hungry pack?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Well armed - you mean those cute little hooves when the wolves are hunting in a very large and hungry pack?

No. We have plenty of power. We just don't use it since most people either
1) don't care.
2) Don't know how
3)think they know how (which is worse)

about fixing our country.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We don't have much left of it, so I think it must be fair to conclude we hate it. Why is that?

As they say, the price of democracy is eternal vigilance. Vigilance is hard.

Democracy depends on all sorts of factors that are usually pretty boring, like campaign finance rules, electoral district boundary setting, parliamentary procedure, etc., etc. It's all foundational stuff that's important but doesn't get anyone's blood pumping. Also, since it doesn't tend to attract interest, it's hard to get the press to give it the attention it deserves.

 

[Sonofason]

No matter how many times I tell you the numbers aren't accurate because the reason they are arrested more is because they are perceived to commit more crimes due to racism you just don't seem to get it. How are they to reverse a "trend" they aren't the ones responsible for? It is, far more often than not, whites that are responsible for the "trend". It is whites that overlook whites committing crimes yet focus on that "suspicious" black guy minding his own business yet could strike at any given moment. It is the white clerk that follows the black shopper around the store ready to accuse them of shoplifting when they see them pickup something that looks "too expensive" for them. It is white neighbor who calls the cops on the black guy "breaking into" his own home. It is the white lady who clutches her purse to her when she dares to pass the black guy on the sidewalk.

How are black people suppose to "reverse a trend" when white people propagate it?

Want the "trend" to end? Stop insisting that "blacks commit more crimes" and treat all black people as you would anyone else and insist everyone else do the same. Color shouldn't mean a thing, it is the person that matters.

I'm sorry, but black people just don't get convicted for breaking into their own homes. It doesn't happen. Perhaps accused, but not convicted.

 

[Draka]

I'm sorry, but black people just don't get convicted for breaking into their own homes. It doesn't happen. Perhaps accused, but not convicted.

I didn't say they get convicted of that, I said it happens. And it does. You think white people get the cops called on them for "breaking into" their own homes? Black people have. Especially if they live in predominately white neighborhoods.

The point was to racism, whether or not someone is arrested, they are profiled, stereotyped. Those things can lead to arrests, valid or false arrests. And that is the issue.

 

[Sonofason]

I didn't say they get convicted of that, I said it happens. And it does. You think white people get the cops called on them for "breaking into" their own homes? Black people have. Especially if they live in predominately white neighborhoods.

The point was to racism, whether or not someone is arrested, they are profiled, stereotyped. Those things can lead to arrests, valid or false arrests. And that is the issue.

We are talking about convictions here.

 

[paragon]

We don't have much left of it, so I think it must be fair to conclude we hate it. Why is that?

Because the majority of people are ignorant and always will be. Because equality is an illusion mounted on the shoulders of that very ignorance. Because democracy works fantastically, but when humans are plugged into the paradigm, it's starts off with broken parts, and is, due to it's inherent nature, certainly destined to fail.

 

[Iti oj]

We are talking about convictions here.

No where not.

 

[Brickjectivity]

We don't have much left of it, so I think it must be fair to conclude we hate it. Why is that?

I think it is partly because we don't perceive that we have it. (I know its really a representative republic.) Its a balance. We have to perceive problems, but if all we perceive are problems then we stop perceiving democracy. Then we stop being a democracy. For example if nobody has the will to vote, then there isn't a vote. The challenge is to perceive that there are problems and abuses but to continue to believe, to be involved, to speak about issues and to vote. That is why its so bad for political parties to inflate problems to appear to be much worse than what they really are.