Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

David Davidovich · Feb 4, 2023

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

The Hammer · Feb 4, 2023

It did always exist. To us.

ChristineM · Feb 4, 2023

Because...

I know of 32 hypothesis of how the universe possibly began. Each one is either based on observable phenomena and extrapolated back to pre BB or on mathematics using the same criteria.

No god needed.

Heyo · Feb 4, 2023

We don't know whether the universe always existed. There are some compelling hypothesis but there is no theory (though some hypothesis are misnamed theories).
If time, space and matter were created at the same time, there is no "before" the Big Bang. And "always" is at every time. The universe always existed in that case.
If there was time before the Big Bang, the energy of the universe could still have existed, either as an eternal singularity or in a previous universe. Our known universe would then be a different state or instantiation.
The eternal singularity has seemingly the same problem as your question. It arises from the unintuitive nature of infinities. Why is there a zero if there are infinite negative numbers?

Sedim Haba · Feb 4, 2023

The universe is eternal, but cyclical. BB it is born. It lives. Big Crunch it dies and BB born anew.

stvdv · Feb 4, 2023

IF a person claims/knows "the world always existed/exists" THEN this person always existed/exists

Viker · Feb 4, 2023

In one form or another, all that is the universe has always been. This present form, too, will pass away. But the stuff that makes it will always be around. Maybe for another universe later. A God or creator isn't necessary for the process but I don't exclude the possibility either.

Twilight Hue · Feb 4, 2023

This out of time description is pretty vague. It really dosent mean anything, as nothing is out of time.

I'd prefer out of a time frame maybe. That would make more sense.

Brickjectivity · Feb 4, 2023

Scripture is not conclusive, depending upon whose scripture you use, about whether the universe didn't always exist; so your question could be moot.

As for God: God is outside time and therefore could not have always existed, since 'Always' is a time word. Instead time exists inside of God, God being transcendent.

RestlessSoul · Feb 4, 2023

Time and space are perceived characteristics of the universe we temporarily inhabit; beyond it there may be no before, no after, and no always. No point in time from which it all began. Indeed, even in our current paradigm, there is no fixed point in time, no universal Now.

exchemist · Feb 4, 2023

From the viewpoint of science, we don't know. The evidence from astronomical observation points to an expansion from a very small size, possibly even a singularity, i.e. a mathematical point, some 14bn years ago. But that is based on extrapolation back in time, which is the best we can do. Whether there was anything before that is an unanswerable question.

Many religions have the idea of creation by a god, implying there was either nothing before this creative act - or else chaos from which it was created by the god imposing order on the chaos.

The idea of imposing order is quite nice to a scientist, since what seems to drive the evolution of processes in the universe is a certain predictable and ordered pattern of rules of behaviour, captured in what we can the laws of nature.

SalixIncendium · Feb 4, 2023

The universe is an appearance in God. God is immutable. The universe has a beginning and an end and is in constant change.

In this response, God is synonymous with Brahman.

SalixIncendium · Feb 4, 2023

In each of these hypotheses, would the universe still exist in the absence of a being to experience it?

Kenny · Feb 4, 2023

I think you have a great point but an error also. Yes, God is outside of time and always existed but the universe didn't. It had a beginning time by the simple logic that if it is expanding, reverse the time backwards and you find a beginning point.

ChristineM · Feb 4, 2023

There is no reason why the universe requires a being, as far as we know. Certainly i have never heard of a hypothesis that can show, using either mathematics or extrapolation from observable data that, that god did it

LuisDantas · Feb 4, 2023

Abrahamic discussion of this subject matter seems to tend to revolve around variations of "god is the necessary uncreated creator who exists outside of both existence and time".

Myself, I find that notion remarkably pointless. Nothing more than an exercise at intentional obfuscation aiming to appease certain anxieties and the aesthetical demands that come with them.

In a nutshell: there are people who want very badly to believe that existence is a deliberate project by a conscious entity. It is not a matter of facts of reality, but of emotional need instead.

I don't know that it even makes any sense to speak of "creation of existence". The very idea is more than a bit self-contradictory.

RestlessSoul · Feb 4, 2023

There seems no way to answer this question, without taking a leap of faith in one direction or another.

I choose to believe that objective mind-independent reality does exist, but is ultimately unknowable to anything but itself, in it’s totality.

As for our subjective experience of that reality, I often run with a theory cobbled together from Descartes, Kant, and the Pareto Principle, whereby 80% is in the mind, and the other 20% is external but insistent.

When I went for a swim this morning, I do not think the water was dependent on me for it’s existence. There was the water and there was me, before we came together, though I have no rational method to justify this belief. My experience of it, meanwhile, was 80% my perception and 20% pretty damn cold in anybody’s language.

SalixIncendium · Feb 4, 2023

I made no implication that any god did anything. I was asking if the universe would still exist in the absence of an experiencer.

RestlessSoul · Feb 4, 2023

I know of no hypothesis that is not a conscious construct. Therefore there is no method by which we can confirm the existence of the universe which does not require the input of consciousness.

ChristineM · Feb 4, 2023

Yup, that hypothesis for ya. Constructed by real people with conscious.

And when did consciousness arise?

Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

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"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.