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Why didn't Jesus write a Gospel?

ruffen

Active Member
I'm wondering where Jesus got his DNA from. If his entire human/phsyical DNA came from his virgin mother, he would have been a girl.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'm wondering where Jesus got his DNA from. If his entire human/phsyical DNA came from his virgin mother, he would have been a girl.

I view it as unimportant. To me, the important aspect is that God incorporated Himself into mankind, the 'details' are merely that, though, I do believe Mary was not 'average', either.
 

ruffen

Active Member
It is important, if one supposes that Jesus was real and the "son of God", ie. a human manifestation of God on Earth. The devil is in the details as they say.

Jesus the man, like any other human being, must have DNA. As a male, his Y chromosome must come from another male - his father. If his father was not a physical being with DNA, then God must somehow have constructed a male DNA for this purpose. Jesus is said not to have sinned, while normal humans are weak and tend to sin and do evil. That raises the question - if God is able to construct DNA and make a more or less perfect being, why didn't he do that for all of us?

Of course it raises other more humorous questions, such as if the Lord has working "man-parts", but even without going there, the story has several weaknesses when considering the concept of a virgin birth.

Yes, God can do magic and just make Jesus the way he was, end of story. But the point of the story is exactly that Jesus was a man. He was part God in the sense of Christ being part of it, but Jesus the man started out as a child, had to eat and drink and live a physical human life and experience human suffering and pain. That is the whole point, isn't it? If Jesus the physical man was a magical construct with the shape of a man, but wasn't a man at all, the point of his life and suffering sort of goes away.

So in order for the Jesus concept to work, he had to be 100% human, but with elements of God in addition to that (the magic tricks he did and the fact that he walked after his death). If Jesus wasn't human, one could argue that he didn't really die on the cross, but that the human-shaped "thing" that just looked human, just looked like it died on the cross.

And in order for Jesus to be human, he must have male DNA, and it must come from somewhere. Either from the direct construction of a God who for some reason didn't bother to improve the DNA for the rest of us, or from some other source.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It is Jesus the man, like any other human being, must have DNA. As a male, his Y chromosome must come from another male - his father. If his father was not a physical being with DNA, then God must somehow have constructed a male DNA for this purpose. Jesus is said not to have sinned, while normal humans are weak and tend to sin and do evil. That raises the question - if God is able to construct DNA and make a more or less perfect being, why didn't he do that for all of us?

Free will.



Yes, God can do magic and just make Jesus the way he was, end of story. But the point of the story is exactly that Jesus was a man. He was part God in the sense of Christ being part of it, but Jesus the man started out as a child, had to eat and drink and live a physical human life and experience human suffering and pain. That is the whole point, isn't it? If Jesus the physical man was a magical construct with the shape of a man, but wasn't a man at all, the point of his life and suffering sort of goes away.

Part man.

So in order for the Jesus concept to work, he had to be 100% human, but with elements of God in addition to that (the magic tricks he did and the fact that he walked after his death). If Jesus wasn't human, one could argue that he didn't really die on the cross, but that the human-shaped "thing" that just looked human, just looked like it died on the cross.

Not really. Scripture doesn't indicate a 'normal person, He was worshipped at birth etc.

And in order for Jesus to be human, he must have male DNA, and it must come from somewhere. Either from the direct construction of a God who for some reason didn't bother to improve the DNA for the rest of us, or from some other source.

Great. And that's important to you? Isn't to me. Jesus the man is just that, a divine Being, but man nonetheless, why would you expect something outrageously different from a 'man'.
 
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Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I'm wondering where Jesus got his DNA from. If his entire human/phsyical DNA came from his virgin mother, he would have been a girl.

Yes, but I suppose if one believes the miraculous anything's possible. Women can birth kittens. :p
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If Jesus thought that written words are not important and that the Holy Ghost or somehing like that would make his teachings obvious, then it's paradoxical that many people today use the written words in the Bible as their theological guide. It's obvious that the "presence" of the Holy Ghost is not enough to convince people.

It's not paradoxical at all. They lack the knowledge of the heart through Spirit in order to listen with their heart, and so they externalize it. "Tell me what to believe, and tell me why I should believe you", is the modus operandi for all those who are not yet attuned to listening with the spirit. Believer and unbeliever alike.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Actually, I'm an atheist. I've wondered about this, how religious people and historians view this matter, why not a single written word of Jesus exists.

It is my opinion that the cause is simply that Jesus did not exist. But there are many interesting and fruitful answers in this thread.

If Jesus thought that written words are not important and that the Holy Ghost or somehing like that would make his teachings obvious, then it's paradoxical that many people today use the written words in the Bible as their theological guide. It's obvious that the "presence" of the Holy Ghost is not enough to convince people.

Your argument is rational; and that makes the NT Bible an unauthorized book, written without express authority from Jesus.

Regards
 

ruffen

Active Member
It's not paradoxical at all. They lack the knowledge of the heart through Spirit in order to listen with their heart, and so they externalize it. "Tell me what to believe, and tell me why I should believe you", is the modus operandi for all those who are not yet attuned to listening with the spirit. Believer and unbeliever alike.


The Creator Of The Universe should have known this.
 

ruffen

Active Member
Your argument is rational; and that makes the NT Bible an unauthorized book, written without express authority from Jesus.

Regards

Indeed. But if one discards the Bible as unauthorized and purely a work of men (no divine inspiration or intent of it being written), then why believe in it?

And if one discards the Bible as possibly fiction, what foundation remains to believe in Christianity? What other more credible sources are there to believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and then lived again?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Indeed. But if one discards the Bible as unauthorized and purely a work of men (no divine inspiration or intent of it being written), then why believe in it?

its not a matter of faith, as much as using it as intended.

For the lessons and morals and the teachings are what is important, not in belief of the supernatural.

Just because man wrote it for men, does not discount it one bit.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Indeed. But if one discards the Bible as unauthorized and purely a work of men (no divine inspiration or intent of it being written), then why believe in it?

And if one discards the Bible as possibly fiction, what foundation remains to believe in Christianity? What other more credible sources are there to believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and then lived again?
All historical accounts we have are biased and contain inaccuracies. We don't discard them, we examine them carefully and critically to determine what they can tell us.

Sometimes we can even glean a piece of the truth by examining exactly what lies people tell, and how they tell them.;)
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
fantôme profane;3828252 said:
All historical accounts we have are biased and contain inaccuracies. We don't discard them, we examine them carefully and critically to determine what they can tell us.

Sometimes we can even glean a piece of the truth by examining exactly what lies people tell, and how they tell them.;)

I agree with you.

Regards
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Originally Posted by Windwalker View Post
It's not paradoxical at all. They lack the knowledge of the heart through Spirit in order to listen with their heart, and so they externalize it. "Tell me what to believe, and tell me why I should believe you", is the modus operandi for all those who are not yet attuned to listening with the spirit. Believer and unbeliever alike.

The Creator Of The Universe should have known this.
I am sure it is what the Bible is all about which proves to me God does know it!
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Creator Of The Universe should have known this.
Why? It's really quite simple. Those that don't know how to listen with the ears of their heart, look to others outside themselves to tell them what to believe. The hope is that when someone is taught the precepts of what to do, that it becomes internalized for them to where they can know listen to their own heart and not have to be told what to think and what to do. Think of it like teaching children. Eventually, you hope they understand for themselves why they should and shouldn't do certain things, and they can be teachers themselves.

So, what's your point?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Was the son of God illiterate? That's not very impressive.

Everyone was illiterate.

That is to say, only about 3% of the people were literate in the ancient world. Most regular folks were suspicious of writing because it could deprive them of money, land, inheritance, etc. So being literate wouldn't have been impressive, nor would it necessarily had been attractive.

To you, illiteracy is a negative thing, but that's because you live in a society that values literacy, and everyone who is notable or noteworthy is at least literate.

Times change - in the future, everyone might value something else, and you would need to argue that Jesus is a fraud (or whatever) because Jesus doesn't portray the positive qualities of the day.
 
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ruffen

Active Member
Everyone was illiterate.

That is to say, only about 3% of the people were literate in the ancient world. Most regular folks were suspicious of writing because it could deprive them of money, land, inheritance, etc. So being literate wouldn't have been impressive, nor would it necessarily had been attractive.

To you, illiteracy is a negative thing, but that's because you live in a society that values literacy, and everyone who is notable or noteworthy is at least literate.

Times change - in the future, everyone might value something else, and you would need to argue that Jesus is a fraud (or whatever) because Jesus doesn't portray the positive qualities of the day.

One can then wonder why God sent only one son, at only one part of the world at a specific time and place where people were illiterate extremely ignorant about the world around them.

Again, one should expect the timeless message and messenger of the creator of the Universe to all humanity for all time, to be a little bit less... local. It is so localized in time, place and culture that everything Jesus is claimed to have said, must be viewed in light of the culture and laws that were around back then. That doesn't seem like a plausible message from God to all of humanity.

Especially for the poor millions or billons who lived their lives before year 0.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Indeed. But if one discards the Bible as unauthorized and purely a work of men (no divine inspiration or intent of it being written), then why believe in it?

And if one discards the Bible as possibly fiction, what foundation remains to believe in Christianity? What other more credible sources are there to believe that Jesus lived and died on the cross and then lived again?

Followers of Jesus should follow Jesus and his teachings. Present Christianity highlights the creeds which are invented by Paul and the Church and Jesus' teachings have been pressed in the background.

In this sense NT Bible is an unauthorized book.

There is no legitimate foundation of the modern Christianity.

Regards
 
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