Why didn't Jesus write a Gospel?

[oldbadger]

Do you think weak unsubstantiated jabs make a difference to me? :slap:

Or that because I refuse to jump through petty hoops from ignorance you somehow have a credible opinion?

You don't get it.

YOU don't get to make unsubstantiated historical comments that go against scholarships, and not get called on it.

If you spent as much time reading modern scholarships instead of outdated ones that never focus on physical and cultural anthropology, you might have something worth debating about.

As it stands imaginative statements are not worth the time.

*ignore*

 

[Bunyip]

Less talky more posty using links like this from credible people that understand what they are talking about.

http://povertyinitiative.org/sites/default/files/nt_and_empire_book_review_liz_theoharis.pdf

John Dominic Crossan has also engaged in attempts to study and
reconstruct the Roman imperial system, particularly the social
and economic position of Jesus and Paul in the first century of
the Common Era. Crossan’s book, Jesus: A Revolutionary
Biography, attempts to show the social, political and economic
structures of especially first century Galilee. In the
Introduction to this book, Crossan writes, “If, for example, we
are tempted to describe Jesus as a literate middle-class
carpenter, cross-cultural anthropology reminds us that there was
no middle class in ancient societies and that peasants are
usually illiterate, so how could Jesus become what never existed
at his time?” (xii). Instead, Crossan asserts, “If Jesus was a
carpenter, therefore, he belonged to the Artisan class, that
group pushed into the dangerous space between Peasants and
Degradeds or Expendables…Furthermore, since between 95 and 97
percent of the Jewish state was illiterate at the time of Jesus,
it must be presumed that Jesus also was illiterate… like the
vast majority of his contemporaries” (25).

You need to get past the endless appeals to authority and man up enough to actually engage with people here. This is a debate and discussion forum - people come here to exchange views and opinions and to discuss different positions - you seem to post endlessly about how you are not interested in people's views or opinions, and that their views and opinions have no merit - so why are you here? What is it you are failing to grasp about how a casual debate forum works?

 

[outhouse]

How about Reza Aslan? more on literacy.

Well, first of all, it may sound shocking to some people, but just because the gospels say something doesn’t mean it’s actually factual. The Gospel of Luke was written 60-70 years after Jesus had died, when Christianity was quintessentially a Roman religion and no longer a Jewish religion and the gospel writers were very interested in making Jesus someone who would appeal to a non-Jewish audience. But the facts of history speak for themselves. And I would say the vast majority of Biblical scholars would agree that the illiteracy rates in Jesus’s world were somewhere around 98 percent. 98 percent of Jesus’s fellow Jews could neither read nor write. The notion that a tekton, as Jesus is referred to in the Bible, a woodworker, which would make him the second-lowest rung on the social ladder in his time just above the slave and the indigent and the beggar, the notion that he would have had any sort of formal education, let alone the kind of education necessary to debate theological points with the scribes and the Pharisees, is difficult to reconcile with what we know of the history of the time.

 

[outhouse]

You need to get past

You need to get past ignorance and learn from those who know much much more then you.

Your not a professor.

So you do not get to discount there work. :slap:

 

[outhouse]

What is it you are failing to grasp about how a casual debate forum works?

This a religious education forum.

Get educated, and come back and talk when you know what your talking about.


The only way to learn is to have someone more knowledgeable then you, teach you. ONLY IF YOUR WILLING TO OPEN YOUR MIND and accept what is taught.

YOU fight this, you fight education and knowledge, so you really don't have a position here to debate.


I would ask you, do you know how a debate works????????????

 

[Bunyip]

This a religious education forum.

Get educated, and come back and talk when you know what your talking about.


The only way to learn is to have someone more knowledgeable then you, teach you. ONLY IF YOUR WILLING TO OPEN YOUR MIND and accept what is taught.

YOU fight this, you fight education and knowledge, so you really don't have a position here to debate.


I would ask you, do you know how a debate works????????????

I'm a qualified historian, and your 'scholarship' is laughable. As I said, get over the endless appeals to authority and show some respect for others here. Other peoples ideas, observations and opinions are just as valid as yours - and frankly I see you throwing a great many insults at people who clearly know a great deal more than you do.

 

[outhouse]

Here is a better more rounded take on the current state of debates on the socioeconomic impact of Sepphoris on Galilee.

"Instability in Jesus' Galilee: A Demographic Perspective" by Reed, Jonathan L. - Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 129, Issue 2, Summer 2010 | Questia, Your Online Research Library


There can be no doubt that Galilee, once mere background to historical Jesus research, has moved to the foreground. What was going on in Galilee during the reign of Herod Antipas has become a central question in discovering who Jesus was.

But no such consensus has emerged on socioeconomics and rural-urban relations. Indeed, the array of positions, which are based in large part on whether urbanization is viewed as exploitation or opportunity, is striking. The discussion is stuck in a rut.


Is there a way out of this rut? In this article, I intend to evade the tireless debate over models, to move beyond the disputed archaeological finds, and to reframe the question in terms of social stability by drawing on the hitherto neglected field of historical demography.


life in first-century Galilee- though not necessarily dissimilar to other parts of the Mediterranean-was substantially different from the modern world and cannot be characterized as stable. Chronic and seasonal disease, especially malaria, cut down significant segments of the population and left even the healthy quite often ill. The age structure was youthful, women bore many children, random death made family and household patterns ephemeral, young men were often mobile, and elderly women especially vulnerable. Survival depended on extended family networks, especially for the most vulnerable: old women and young children. The ancient Mediterranean was, in Walter Scheidel's words, a place "of frequent pregnancy and sudden death," with several factors in Antipas's Galilee also fueling considerable internal migration.9 Galilee was not demographically stable. I will conclude with some implications of that instability for socioeconomics and rural-urban relations under Antipas, and will suggest a few avenues worth pursuing with regard to the historical Jesus.

 

[outhouse]

I'm a qualified historian.

:biglaugh:

NO your not, not in this field.

Your untrained and unlearned on biblical scholarships.



Don't blow smoke.

get over the endless appeals to authority

So throw out all education and knowledge because bunyip knows all

:biglaugh:

Other peoples ideas, observations and opinions are just as valid as yours

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!

And I posted 3 of them

Johnathon Reed
John Crossan
Reza Aslan


And supplied links and sourced everything I posted. I brought education to the forum and showed the current state of REAL debate on the topic.


All you have done is attacked the messenger out of sheer ignorance and desperation, ALL because you don't have a clue how to attack the MESSAGE


Your so transparent

 

[oldbadger]

This a religious education forum.

Get educated, and come back and talk when you know what your talking about.

The only way to learn is to have someone more knowledgeable then you, teach you. ONLY IF YOUR WILLING TO OPEN YOUR MIND and accept what is taught.

YOU fight this, you fight education and knowledge, so you really don't have a position here to debate.

I would ask you, do you know how a debate works????????????

Outhouse...... you did not send this to me, but another.
What on earth is happening here?
I want to sort this out (between us) ASAP.
I am asking you to send me a PM, telling me exactly what you think of me (safe from any complaint by me etc) and tell me what a b-st-rd I am etc, and why I brough all this anger upon you. I will apologise. We can reset the defaults back and start again.
I don't think that this is a happy position just now, and we need to clear the air, shake on it, and go back to friendly (but hot) debating.

EDIT: I must go out......... can't reply quickly.

 

[outhouse]

Mr historian in case you have not been able to follow a long here. [not you badger]

This is not a debate if the historical jesus exist or not. It is if a Galilean from Nazareth would be literate or not.


That all depends MR trained historian on the socioeconomic status as well as the historical demography.



SO get a clue and bring something to the table besides weakness in the field, and hatred for knowledge and education.

 

[outhouse]

show some respect for others here
.

When you start showing respect for scholars and historians, education and knowledge, sure. No problem.


Everyone here is on an individual basis.



Its not my fault you fit in like a square peg in a round hole.

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse...... you did not send this to me, but another..

Im glad you comprehended that, since it was addressed to another person.

What on earth is happening here?

The uneducated make statements they cannot back.


They want to debate with a sword, not a book, not a link, not a credible authority.

I want to sort this out (between us) ASAP.

You used to be great here.


You now make statements based on opinion more so then professors or scholars, and this goes directly against those who are professors and scholars.

I have also seen some pretty serious comprehensive issues when your debating something not even being debated, like what Ehrman stated.


I hope one day you learn while scholars do debate their ideas, they exchange ideas and they do so with respect and a positive attitude. Its much more professional.

If you had tried to jump into a more professional forum, you would see the knowledge level jump tenfold due to the wealth of knowledge, right or wrong being presented.

Its one thing to have an opinion on all this, its another to state it is the only correct version. Its much better to know where your position sits in the total picture, and know your arguments strengths and weaknesses.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why didn't Jesus write a Gospel?

Jesus was a Jew and as such follower of the teachings of Moses. He did not need to write a book necessarily.

Regards

 

[Blackdog22]

He was not illiterate. He wasn't here long enough to write.[/I] John 21:25

33 years and no time to write? I imagine even the non omnipotent could manage such a feat, much less the omnipotent. A very interesting statement to make.

 

[oldbadger]

Im glad you comprehended that, since it was addressed to another person.






The uneducated make statements they cannot back.


They want to debate with a sword, not a book, not a link, not a credible authority.





You used to be great here.


You now make statements based on opinion more so then professors or scholars, and this goes directly against those who are professors and scholars.

I have also seen some pretty serious comprehensive issues when your debating something not even being debated, like what Ehrman stated.


I hope one day you learn while scholars do debate their ideas, they exchange ideas and they do so with respect and a positive attitude. Its much more professional.

If you had tried to jump into a more professional forum, you would see the knowledge level jump tenfold due to the wealth of knowledge, right or wrong being presented.

Its one thing to have an opinion on all this, its another to state it is the only correct version. Its much better to know where your position sits in the total picture, and know your arguments strengths and weaknesses.

There you are..... you got it all off your chest.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe that a man like Jesus would never write anything such as the so called gospel, he would have known that his words would have become an idol, that people wouldn't think for themselves.

 

[ChristineES]

If God placed Jesus on Earth, and Jesus had important words for mankind to hear, why didn't Jesus write his own account of what God wants us to do and prophecies etc.?

Why have Jesus say the words verbally, and then have apostles write it with the risk that someone along the line would mess it up?

Was the son of God illiterate? That's not very impressive.

He had a 3 year ministry, according to scriptures. He didn't have time to write a book. Besides, since I believe Him to be the Son of God, He knew that others would write enough books.

 

[steeltoes]

Why didn't Harry Potter write a book?

 

[Blackdog22]

I believe that a man like Jesus would never write anything such as the so called gospel, he would have known that his words would have become an idol, that people wouldn't think for themselves.

That is exactly what we see anyways,

 

[Bunyip]

When you start showing respect for scholars and historians, education and knowledge, sure. No problem.


Everyone here is on an individual basis.



Its not my fault you fit in like a square peg in a round hole.

Buddy, you have no idea how historical research and scholarship even works - you don't even understand the basic principles.