Why didn't Jesus write a Gospel?

[outhouse]

Most of the population was illiterate. During that time period, most of the religions and traditions were oral.It has been argued to me before that only Mark and Matthew were literate disciples during the time of Christ.

In the New Testament, Christ works a lot with the poor, the sinners, the sick and the disenfranchised members of society. Writing a book would not help him work with these people, or reach out to them.

A good example of this comes from the Spanish Conquistadors. They attempted to convert the Inca's King by handing him a bible. The King's response was "what is this?" and after a friar said "the Spanish God" the King threw it down because he couldn't read it.

If Jesus wrote a book and handed it to the poor, lepers and disenfranchised, would they not have had the same response?

All good points and examples.


Not only that, we don't know what kind of movement Jesus was spreading. We know he traveled and healed and taught parables and part of that was the kingdom of god, which due to our limited knowledge of, is still highly debated on exactly what that was.

 

[oldbadger]

As the historian Michael Grant observed, no professional historian has endorsed this idea: the arguments against an historic Jesus would, as Grant remarked, equally disprove the existence of Alexander the Great.

I've read his book....'Jesus'. Excellent! Very educational.

 

[oldbadger]

Nazareth was a hovel that served as a satellite village for Sepphoris. It was not rich, and based on cultural anthropology it would have been a very tough place to grow up

Geza Vermes. The Changing faces of Jesus p224

.......Galileans were renowned for their fighting spirit, courage and chauvinism.
Agriculture was flourishing in the province............ Josephus firnishes a vivid background of ......... fields, wild flowers, tress and veneyards: 'The land is everywhere so rich in soil and pasturage and proiduces such a variety of tress,../.... in fact, every inch of the soil has been cultivated by the inhanitants......... ' Josephus further speaks of 'abundant resouces'

 

[outhouse]

Geza Vermes. The Changing faces of Jesus p224

Yes Sepphoris was very well to do, so was Tiberius.

What is your point?


Now try and dig something up on Nazareth where the peasant class lived.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

As the historian Michael Grant observed, no professional historian has endorsed this idea: the arguments against an historic Jesus would, as Grant remarked, equally disprove the existence of Alexander the Great.

I wonder if this is more a kind of dogma among historians though, seeing as we have contemporary accounts of Alexander but not Jesus. Its almost like a line historians agree not to cross but with no good reason. Some scholars are in fact bold enough to suggest it and take some heat.

 

[DawudTalut]

If God placed Jesus on Earth, and Jesus had important words for mankind to hear, why didn't Jesus write his own account of what God wants us to do and prophecies etc.?

Why have Jesus say the words verbally, and then have apostles write it with the risk that someone along the line would mess it up?

................................

Peace be on you.
Possibilities:
Oral traditions were stronger.
Governmental opposition.
Message was not meant to be saved , it was enough to be taught to current faithful.



According to Ahmadiyya Muslims who believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) was saved from cross and went to find lost tribes (lost sheep). He migrated secretly from his area to en-route Iran, Afghanistan, India, Kashmir and preached successfully.

"
The Testimony Hindu and Buddhist Texts
First century A.D Northern India was a vast center of not only Hinduism, but also Buddhism. The Israelite peoples whom Jesus ministered to in these areas were in a minority practicing Judaism, but it is likely many adopted the indigenous faiths of Hinduism and Buddhism also.

It is possible to trace Jesus's footprints in these lands from some of these texts.

The ancient books of Hindus are called Puranas. One book, Bhavishya Maha Purana (written in Sanskrit) contains an account of a king of India, Salivahana meeting "Isa-Masiha" (Jesus the Messiah)- a religious personage of fair complexion who was a foreigner.

Buddhist texts contain a prophecy of future Buddha, a bodhisattva, named 'Bagwa Metteyya' a Pali phrase which literally means "fair-complexioned", or "white traveller". The etymological resemblance of the word "Metteyya" to "Messiah" is established and one meaning of the word "Messiah" is traveler.

As the sun of Christianity did rise in India with Jesus' personal advent in the area, many teachings of Jesus became interwoven with Gautama Buddha's teachings. Even certain parables as recorded in the New Testament became attributed to Buddha, such as parable of the sower which is found in Buddhist texts.

It has been proposed that the word Yuz Asaf, the name of the person entombed in Kashmir, is derived from Buddha Asaf, as Jesus would have been included in the Buddhist pantheon of saints. The term would thus mean a Buddha who rallied people, or gathered the flock of the true faith."
Sources : https://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

 

[oldbadger]

Yes Sepphoris was very well to do, so was Tiberius.

What is your point?

Nazareth was well within fruitful and bounteous Galilee.

Now try and dig something up on Nazareth where the peasant class lived.

OK...... your post will do......

Nazareth was a hovel that served as a satellite village for Sepphoris. It was not rich, and based on cultural anthropology it would have been a very tough place to grow up

So Nazareth served Sepphoris..... yes?
Can you tell us all about what Nazareth supplied to Sepphoris?
You might accept this better if it comes from you.
Then we can proceed.....

 

[outhouse]

Can you tell us all about what Nazareth supplied to Sepphoris?
...

A labor force, And agrarian needs.


I wish you knew more about what you were quoting, do you even understand the differences between Vermes and Sanders, let alone CURRENT cultural anthropology as well as physical anthropology :slap:


Life was terrible for these people in these small villages. Anywhere from a 25% to 50% mortality rate on children under 5. Harris lines found on the bones and skulls that show evidence of the poverty and malnutrition. [Israel Hershkavitz Tel Aviv] You also had severe malaria ad other disease was ripe and rampant.

Hershkovitz Israel, ANATOMY AND ANTHROPOLOGY,*FACULTY OF MEDICINE , TAU

Link just to show you who he is.

 

[oldbadger]

A labor force, And agrarian needs.

Agrarian needs? Why would Sepphoris have only relied on a hilltop community for Agrarian needs? This looks odd. Sepphoris was surrounded by agrarian supplies.

Now the labour force I would agree with.
How about just a labouring and artisan force?
The archeology supports this.

I wish you knew more about what you were quoting, do you even understand the differences between Vermes and Sanders, let alone CURRENT cultural anthropology as well as physical anthropology :slap:

...personal insult. Abusive. IGNORED

Life was terrible for these people in these small villages. Anywhere from a 25% to 50% mortality rate on children under 5. Harris lines found on the bones and skulls that show evidence of the poverty and malnutrition. [Israel Hershkavitz Tel Aviv] You also had severe malaria ad other disease was ripe and rampant.

I know about the Harris lines..... your new toy, recently discovered and oft repeated.......

Could you confirm that Sepphoris would have been supplied with agrarian produce from all around?
Could you confirm that Nazareth would have probably supplied the labour and artisan force for the new Sepphoris?

 

[fantome profane]

Agrarian needs? Why would Sepphoris have only relied on a hilltop community for Agrarian needs? This looks odd. Sepphoris was surrounded by agrarian supplies.

Now the labour force I would agree with.
How about just a labouring and artisan force?
The archeology supports this.

If you are thinking that it was required to be literate to be a skilled labourer or even an artisan in 1st century Palestine, you are wrong. Literacy would not only not be required it would be extremely unusual.

I don't know if that is what you were thinking but if you were I wanted to head that off.

 

[oldbadger]

If you are thinking that it was required to be literate to be a skilled labourer or even an artisan in 1st century Palestine, you are wrong. Literacy would not only not be required it would be extremely unusual.

I don't know if that is what you were thinking but if you were I wanted to head that off.

then you presumed.
i await any confirmation of my questions before moving on.

 

[Desert Snake]

Considering that Jesus had followers, was called Rabbi, etc., He most likely was literate. The teachings would have been written down by others, however, because of the way He taught.

 

[Windwalker]

He had a dream...

A vision of a future where much of the population can read...when people endlessly bicker over each letter and line - where books seemingly become a divine entity of their own. He believed in a living, breathing religion of the heart and mind vs tunnel-visioned, stagnant observance of past utterances. He wanted people to transform into divine, radiant beings instead of robotic copycats.

At least I have always imagined that I believe he wanted people to move beyond the training-wheels of written law.

I just wanted to draw attention to what you said here as I think it marks a watershed difference between religious peoples. I personally very much agree with you, that the problem with many, if not most religious believers is they are wanting an external "authority" to tell them what to believe. And the more they feel they can conform to this, the more true to the faith they imagine they are. This is an "exoteric" religious approach.

Then there is the esoteric approach, one of inner illuminations, as opposed to external dictations. My understanding of what Jesus taught was very much to get people to move from the exoteric to the esoteric, from the external religion, to the internal knowledge of the heart. It is also my view that the moment 'living words' were taken and put into a book and labeled, "God's Word" it ripped it out of a living, dynamic evolving truth into a code-book, stealing away inner illumination in order for religious "authorities" to control and manage their flocks. That's great for organizational purposes, but diminishes that Freedom that living Truth must have. It's like entombing a flower in a plastic shell.

So, I agree, that a teacher like Jesus was not about chiseling his words in stone to have authority over others. I think that notion completely is contrary to Jesus. I believe he saw them as seeds sown that grow uniquely in each individual. They are not rules and dictations, but rather seeds or kernels that blossom into living plants. Those cannot be 'canonized'.

 

[Mycroft]

As a Galilean Peasant from Nazareth.

Except there is no archeological evidence whatsoever for the existence of a first century Nazareth.

 

[oldbadger]

Except there is no archeological evidence whatsoever for the existence of a first century Nazareth.

Well, there is some. A substantial development or building has been excavated from that period. I don't know how extensive this property was but if it was a significant prop then this helps massively towards the proposal of a much larger community.
any ideas?

 

[Sleeppy]

John 7

And it being now the middle of the feast, Jesus went up to the temple, and he was teaching,
and the Jews were wondering, saying, `How hath this one known letters -- not having learned?'
Jesus answered them and said, `My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me; if any one may will to do His will, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God, or -- I do speak from myself.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, there is some. A substantial development or building has been excavated from that period. I don't know how extensive this property was but if it was a significant prop then this helps massively towards the proposal of a much larger community.
any ideas?

It was a Roman Bath House. I'm not sure a community of Israeli Farmers would be building a roman bath house.

 

[Sleeppy]

It was a Roman Bath House. I'm not sure a community of Israeli Farmers would be building a roman bath house.

But then why put the bath house there at all, if there was not some community around it?

 

[oldbadger]

It was a Roman Bath House. I'm not sure a community of Israeli Farmers would be building a roman bath house.

but nor do I.
So it was a significant prop?
i am on a train with a mob. Cant write.
plcrt me reply in 40mins.

 

[Mycroft]

But then why put the bath house there at all, if there was not some community around it?

I don't know. But the Bath House being there is only indication that Romans were there. And not evidence of a 1st Century Nazareth.

And it is unheard of for there to be no evidence for a particular place. Not a single building, pot fragment, door handle, disturbed geology or topography. Nothing indicates there was ever any kind of settlement or city there at all.